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Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 19 · 1 year ago

WTH Happened to Godard in the 70s

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In 1967, Jean-Luc Godard made a film called Weekend, famous for its beautiful tracking shot of a traffic jam and the collision that caused it.

To many fans of Godard's work up to this point it is as if he was one of the casualties, or more potent: that this car crash is an apt metaphor for the next 12 years of his career.

But why?

Why do even ardent Godard fans, including those who followed and loved his work in the 80s, 90s, and throughout the 21st century hate or dismiss his 70s work?

Why did he lose mainstream appeal?

Why did he go from participating in Cannes to protesting Cannes and getting the festival shut down?

What happened?

In this episode we will try to answer this very question, and look at how the one of the worlds most esteemed "auteurs" went on to become a "collaborator".

We will look at the two partnerships that defined his career in the 70s, namely the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist collective the Dziga Vertov Group, and his long time partner and collaborator Anne-Marie Mieville

We will also discuss 3 of the films he made in this period in great detail:

  • Wind From the East
  • Tout va Bien
  • Numero Deux

Are they worth seeing? Listen in, and find out.

You are listening to talking eviction efficial PAS got some ICM Por dotcom, welcome back everyone, and yes, this isreal. We are going to talk about d period in good arch career. Many of hisardent fant actively ignore it's a little bit like a black box of secretfilms. This next ton, no one has seen not seriously. When you hear peopletalk about Godad, it's like he died in N, ine, tdred and sixty seven or at thevery least living comatos until the Manatis- and this is why this is suchan exciting part of his life and career, to finally be able to talk about indeedand break down a little bit. He only put out des at least Eman Ne,the very imbodiment of the cinematic atteur and anafiting. He wasinstrumental both the critic and terist with cars Ithcinema and as the directorin pushing the altertary W WOUC changed. How so many people view cinema,placing the director as a fall, or at least most significant artist withinthe creation of a film and the fill as his or her vission. It's therefore alittle bi curious, if not tistain, Iromic that it actually, his entirebody of word in the ninetden seventies is the fine acolloboration we're gointo such an extreme length that several of these films do not evencarry his name. twhat happened. Well. May Nineteen fixty eight strike studentuprising revolution in the air, but good art ven from no participating income to protesting, come and Esenta tame of the central role in Shucting itdown for a year. This was the year he ultimated very first and Prredite WordSynodrat, a collection of short political essays. Hes admitted severaland others, including restaurants, also contributed it depicted real imagesfrom the protest and the clashes between strikers protestors and thepolice. Compergorian also contributed and remember that name in any way,PODAGIEA grow smaller, which is a little bit eronic given, but mentallyamotruons. Sympathy for a devil. You know in the midst of all this, but thejoy of learning were literally does two people in a room and ironicall name afem like any other it literally just students and workers sitting in a fieldand with no face shown the focus became clearer and clearer political agitation,socalism Marxism and revolution. We can neeply separate this period intotwo sections, his work with a Sigavota group and his films with anmarime, evil,Kudar, Goren and oters form the MORTISTENIS moist collective, theZIGAVORTA group named after father of Soget Mompar and together, depending onhow you count. They made five to nine films. They enleaged. A form ofcinematic exploration, is almost emparalleled crafting tinematic essays,coupled with complete disdain for eny conventions or Ordecorum for thatmatter, Ne Than Nine hundred and seventy one bladie Arufa Wul ongorenand sip their pants to pull out an video cameras that very same breakdanfocus of distancing the viewr entirely from the screen and asking them to tinkcritically about what they were watching was taken to some of its mostextreme limits and then wiin quite a colossal shift in the cinema. After thegroup disbanded, N, nine hnden and seventy two, we rapidly move away fromtheir erect political agitation and towards a far more intimate andpersonal it somehow even more distance style in one thousand nine hundred andseventy three efor the production company Sonimars with Nemil, and theystarted exploring and experimenting with the image itself. You can easilysee how me will impactagl ours work far more than the Sik about a group as awhole, as he playsed into so march of his later career. He start to see theplay of projection, gite art TVs, brought in and kind of framing andtelling stories and essays that greep you in a kind of add unusual intensity.In this episode, we will try to understand why so many fans act as ifJohnlo couldhat died on Thsan nine...

...hundred and sixty seven perhapsenveloped in a car crash similar to the beginning of weekend or at the veryleast, again lad in tat coma until the nineteand eighties. We will dive deeperinto the two gotar films that still get held up by critics and remain respected.The Revolutionary Totobian, with Emeth Montand and gang Fonba and tha, farmore low key numeral dukes. Instead of the power relations win a family bothpresent on the dayso pictures, Donte Toppe Ouf, best films of all time. Wehave also singled out wind from the east as one of the clearest examples ofthe work of the Siga worter group, juning, metoday or Clement, mature andSaul, and to just get this conversation started. What was your very firstreaction to seeing odage Ne Thousan, nine hndred and seventys work? Hi Ammature from frience. My first reaction to Godor seventies work was actually myfirst reaction, Togda for some strange reason: Newuldo was actually the firstGod affin. I ever saw the reasons for that involved: Wendam DOT ORG and mywillingness to explore Cema in a rendor way. Abrustia was aware of what good Iwas, and I was aware that his seventies work was different from his sixtieswork. But still, I was amazed by the willingness to experiments with thissematic language and very pleasantly surprised by the playfulness that wentalong with th the kind of self seriousness I expectit Hig and so fromAustralia. I think this is going to be an interesting topic to discuss,because, even though I'd been watching Godad film o pretty much the whole ofMyseemarit Journey, I would have seen breathless around eghtee or nineteenyears ago. It's actually only this year with his seventies, Pon was being theleast on Mobie that I've actually got a chance to watch. Some semeties got outte Sene three from the seventies. Now en, though, I'd see most ofis sixtiesfilms. Before this year, I haven't seen it single filme Uin, the Nineteen dseventies. It's an interesting period to look up because ob iousleguadadasprogress laws, O fel maker over the years and T iy, think coming toMeseme's work as an experience in a file is work is really interesting tolook oat because it challenges the medium in different ways that maybe wewouldn't have thought possible before alto. This is gem from France. agessreaction, watching its films from the seventies was Werl. It's obvious thatthis go out, but at the same time I think Godis, one of those filmmakersthat has real progression, and I think that it e should watch team aterbecause they are real phases in work and I think the seventies is a phase onits son. I definitely agree with clamor that Goda is an interesting fimaker inpart. The progress we conceive well, not ecend the Po with the Ark we cansee in his fims the evolution. That is apparent, and I think that's the casewith the FIMS- will talk about in this episode. And what about you chis? Whatwas your for experience with good Ar Seventies? FIMS actually saw quite a few of these longbefore Thegain Tho movie, but I much poorer quality and and before I had anknowledge of inother kind of politics like what e Hart was talking about, andI think it's interesting that they still work for me because the've alwaysbeen so fascinated by the type of fhormatic folters Atgodo has oo Cin,rework films and find different ways makes feens interesting. But what Ididn't realize, because, because the CAVIISEM mad it Jus increat, is that wewan actually know what t is talking about to becom a lot morcheme antbeycome, a lot more understandable, so they're not as mad and comical asoriginaly at all, seeing them again now that they're on Mobi, I think it's showcase that Ou Kn, it's not just withour, being n, crazy and great. They resultte showcases the kind of polical interest they had. I think that was themain take away from it this time round and bring U Ov to the next question.How would you describe witour Semites work, especially to someone who hasn'tseen any of it? Do you think Goud Dord fans, thinking about venturing past NeOnine, Hunden and sixty seven, especially you know if they gont bejumping in before night may, diys needly prepared in some way? Well, I think that if they're fun Fwithout theyknow what to expect, because they know that the ty so Makothat is always trying to push the boundaries. I guess thes seventiesperiod is a period that Um fits well between the sixties and the eighties. Iguess the seventies is little bits more...

...experimental than the sixties is late.Sixties work. Obviously we mentioned weekend, but we can also mentioned th.T Chinese are filmd that th arestarting to experiment with sound and images anda different kind of storytelling, and I would say that he's working theseventies take those concept and take them even further away and that thenext rm political layer that which is obviously because may sixty eight uppenbetween weekhend that was raised in N, n nine hutded and sixty seven and therest of his phelography. It's interesting to hear ok about thepolitics and Godards work, because I'm pretty sure Hehas saidbefor is quite asaying that all film is political and, I would say, even the early sixties,films, sone films like a petite Sodar, have got some very strong politicalovertones, undertimes in them hover. You want to look at it, and so all ofhis films were political, but deafly in the nineteen seventies n sees becomemore pronounced in terms of preparation. I don't know if dad fonds neer to beprepared before going into see his seventies films. Anybody who's seen anumber of films he's down in the nine hn sixties, SOS that he likes pushingthe envelope if you've seen Samehil of his later films, Trom the eighties andlater there's a lot of word playing there. He loves word play and when Isat down a I watched, Ovabiena and Nimerodo, they were very impressive,but they weren't fine blowing. In that I was sort ofexpecting a thing like that from Godad. It wasn't wasn't unexpected what it wasdoing. It was still impressive, but I don't think it's something where Ineeded to be prepared for it before going an to seeing it anything would bethe Politics Tho politics do come out very strong, but it's the same for alot of his work from the eighties or beyond. If he'd seen any of his come tothe eighties or ninetys things like forevemotes, which I resetly watched amovie also, which is very o against amswiss neutrality and the Bossmanwarand everything Tha's a lot of politics in there, so I don 't thinkany of it was too surprising, but that's just my take on it. If you'retalking about someone who's a fan of Godoff on the sixties and who's, onlyseen that I do think it, they should maybe be warned to a certain extent. Certainly they would be ready for someexpementation GDAL did that in the sixties, but he did go much further inthe seventies. I also would say that the politics show up in a verydifferent manner, they'r present again in the sixties, and I would actuallycertainly agree with GDA saying that authame is political, but these FIMSare much more explicitly political to a point that it's certainly not necessary,but some passing familiarity with maxism meninism might be helpful. I certainly it he kind of understand,especially the Zavatov FIMS yeah. I think I agree with all of you. Actually,I think that if you as a Lord Fan, followed his career up at sixty sevenand E, I so lit it Al. I I sawe weekend and two or three things I know abouther and y Cano. Imagine that you mingle, those together and add in morepolitical agitation, your pretty much there. We will know more or less whatto expect from his seventies work that the only thing I would say is youshould probably jump over a couple of sixties, fim o start to think about astuff because, like if you look at Isis, the very first fel that in some way thecredit las Tik, Eto and fil, but was released a alogvill, which is, I feellike any other. That was in some ways. Just like Lajitifi is an interestingconversation on the field. That's all they do. They sit in the field youdon't see faces. You may get something out of it, but betus to ton thelanecdote. When that film was shaped to English peaking audiences, the ARDE wasrun just to traw to orvants abroad. It doesn't make any sense hot oever, butdo Soyan do the same thing. With Tim for the LISTENR INTWO thousand and ten.You know adding Novado stub titles Ike, just if you just want to get Hem Oreo acontinuous guny jump along to you know the main tee group of the seventies,and it will seem lot smooter. I would say I guess, when objious differencewould be t just to say that his seventies fims are almost all if notall s a fims, which you cannot say of his earlier offence. That is a prettysubstantial difference and something that I think is worth maybe mentioningto someone who is venturing into that...

...yea. That's so true as well. I mean, Ithink, it's fat from ssay aspect in his early work, especially on toiterthingsbut yeah. That's really more of the main distinctions and they alsohave a lot more of a niece outlook. Like you mentioned that your, if don'tKo anything about mortism Odotimantin, amosne nn it I ees, might Tus eemcompletely impenetrable and confusing and and Besar even more so than officeearlier worked, and I suppose this Alsoti Oto my last question before heactually tockered, which is why do you think Udag working on the seventies wasalmost impossible to see until this point and was you know, dismissed oreven directly disliked by so many, even God, Art Fans Up until this point? Well,I think it has to do with both the form and the contents, but T it's. It's m mmore difficult to access. So obviously that's going to be that's interestingfor providers like movie and others to give, because it's just number ofpeople who might watch it is beused. So just I mean economically, it's not asviable, but I also think that among good afands, the reason why they wouldrejected is that many people love Goa for formal reasons right for how hisFIMS look for his taments as of inmaker and a lot of his of these FIMS, eventhough they still do show that stalent and that's interesting form. Contentsis much more frontloded and again the politics are oncluded, and I think thatis a big turn of for many people, especially because they are quiteragical politics. I would probably agree about the politics and the heavyhandiness of the politics being one of the main reasons why seventies work wasmaybe overlooked. A bid until now, like Matthew, said I'd, say, Olso res. Whypeoplewould like Odadfilms, would befor things like breathless, the rgirl, thegun ings like Alfavill and Crati, an exciting adventure? Things likecontempt is all about the film interustry. So, of course, F. Youn fansare Goin to want to go out and Dris to see that O. I think wilthe Samilysfilms when it became more about the politics rather than about crane thaYavento girl gun. That's all that you need to be able to create aninteresting film. I think that's, maybe when people started to go away, I'm notquite sure why his eightis work is a lot more valable than his seventieswork. A A lot of his ashes. Films have been leased on dbd in Australia andnone of his seventies workhouse, although I guess made with thecontroversy of things like how Mary, maybe that provoked a bit moregenerally interested in his work yeah, I would agree with both of you. Another thing or so that we couldmention is that it films from the seventies wherl most of them were notmade under his name under goodel's name but Um Ande, Wook, tegether off and maybe for SOM. The so it has um filmsthat are not well that a good ar involved, but since it was not onlygood out, it was also peopere involved and maybe in the first place somepeople didn't associate it God with this group and those who did maybe wereafraid that goodaldid'nt had enough room towork and it wouldn't feel like aGoud, a film enough for them to enjoy them. Even even though I read somewherethat good at a very, very huge impact on making all all of those films, but I could maybe see someone before theInternet so searching for films and just seeing this films made by wo,Togetherto and probably not necearily, associating it with Goodau. I think it's an interesting point. YouMake Clem about Godard's name not being very pronounced, or that it's goingunder a completely different name in the nineteen seventies and it'sheriousy pointd about the collaboration, because obviously Godad did a lot ofanthology films. The nineteen sixties I grow p o have to ronnounce that, like this one,they did with Hasilini a D Russalini and a few other directors, andtherefore befor God, Ad Fans. When they go into watch, it would have only beenseeing a snippe of it. So if they see his name was with a whole lot of otherdirectors, maybe people Han iend, seven yeears were like, or you know it's justgoing to be one segment out of a whole bunch of segments rather than somethingwhich is purely Godards fision. I think, as far as how they were received at atime, it's also, I think, has to do with the geneile way that we moved awayfrom May sixty eight. I think I mean we can get into that toto later, but I think Guda was not in Vugue.Basically, in the seventies, he was seen as someone who stayed in thesixties, maybe even though he ke didn't in terms of what what his friens were.I think there's a bit of that as when...

Heating Tho all really really greatpoints, and while obviously it work was cre under the tegover Gouk, it's reallyimportant to know that coudover first F, all the Omthey key director involved inall of these hims. Usually it would be him and on all the director worknot. AtTim, usually him and Gorin, so you can still feel essentially every way thatthis is Apodorvian at at least in mot of the cases, but while when from t etclearly takes off so many of the ideas yine pushing before it doth take themto another extreme and interesting in terms of collaboration. It has onl seenin the middle of it all where the emtire cast and prew Star halking abouthow the film is done, what images they use, what images they represent in thefilm and it so cases a kind of spontaneous collaborative effort thatreally is lrike a blow to a auther Terye will. But what is been from theEast, and why is it so interesting? Why did it pick it to discuss today and asaone of the main waysesis stripped down everything a film can be? It doesactually have one of the biggest Italian stars at the time. Jan MariaLonta, who h retin oppicns especially, will know from to teband ugly and fothree dollars more, but was so many incredible Italian films and here issentus walking about with a dum, sometimes ha cowbey had represtentingthis kind of state, persionary violence and everything around him is strippeddown violence. It is ent represented by throling, red paint at people and onceagain, like essentially all of good our filmsin. If a political essay, it isagitation propaganda. What is so interesting here is that you have theseof the passionate speeches essentially placed over cinematic footbitch, oftendusted with people being prepared for the filming and eating, and it has thiskind of semiaromic contrast which we could see so strongly. INGODAG previouswork as well, and it even has a preatly extreme premiss, which is veryinteresting for anyone in a fascinated by fil histerviuntheory, which is thatany film forcusing on narrative and character et sentially becomes part ofthis brother's bectacle and they go full on t ae. Full fontal attackagainst Soviet cinema as well essential shocasing at the only cinnema that, ifto them at this point in time, valuable is the kind of Cinemaa thatpactes youfrom the screen and make you think about what you are seeing again in thepurest breathtian tradition. I know that especially material. I willdisianuat about this faimn. I think this will be a really excitingdiscussion. plets GE started with Mateur. Well, so I think Livonthe teingfrom the East is Guda and Itingora at the point where they think that cinema,as you mentioned, and perhaps even all artforms, ortist or pictural art, isinhevintly bourgeois capitalist and conservative and the thine even refersto the birth of photography as the obigin of that. This win feels like theresult of that realization, but it both aims to present the theory that oldcinema is representation and that representation is basically capitalistand it also wants perhaps to be futed by offering something new somethingevolutionary that will be your new lefts Cinemou mor politicallyresponsible cinema. I would argue that in that respect, it's a failure, atleast for me. I think one of the main issues is baked within the tegethertogroup projects, and I think you can see this in how the thin attacks thenotions of self management and a General Assembly. You have a bunch ofpolitical sensibilities, part of this product here, including an actualporitical leader of the May, sixty eighth movement, then Yagonbinditz he'sactually credited as a screenwriter and H is probably not that well know not oof frends but infrence. He is basically the most famous young person to comeout of that movement, and you also have Italian belbigate members. It'sbasically a hotchpodge of political sensibilities and the result is, asGuda himself might put it, disconnect...

...between sound and image. At least forme, the images are the results of the group's endeavor. Apparently one of theideas was to make a leftest spaghetti western, staring gon, Naev remtive, forexample, but the sounds and perhaps crusally the editing feels all Goda andGoh, and at this point they have no interests in Nativ Cinema, as, as wesaid, as in representation as they put it. So you've got these images and thislong political monologue by Anjzimski and they do use the images toillustrate some of the points they're making bouts cinema. I think Chris, youmentioned the violence being ilustuated by this bet pains essentially, which isessentially how it's done in cinema always, but it's very obvious here, butto me it feels very disjointed, not very coherent, perhaps because theysimply haven't resolved their co issue. They I identified all the ways in whichcinema is politically invalid, for them and they've ended up with nothing left.It's a sinematic dead end the General Assembly sections with which Chrismentioned in which we hear the GOUP members disagreeing. They feel likegood eyes, trying to win arguments after the fact to the power of editing,and all of that is very interesting as a contral arthifact, both in terms ofgoodass personal journey and the border left intellegentes post sixty eightMalaiz, but I don't find it successful at all as of Thim, and it doesn't Hertthat I personally find the political content that this lands on to be kindof Viole, essentially begolgitating, Marris Popaganda. At one point.Demeaning political opponents of Mo, so if I thought that this was moreformally successful, maybe I could look past that and that's also always t away. You can argue that what is being said in the FIM is not necessarily whatthe fin wants to say, but I think, because there is this disconnect for me,it ends up Jus, just being some kind of Marrige Popaganda, which I don't carefor. I I think the main difference bewen how to of US successful, wetaught the form was because I was personally dos blown away, but it kindof inematic intensity and kind of tinematic exploration that went on here.It love this arm. It auntis in Nawher. Everything is trick bare you're,constantly considering each aspect of the film and there's so muchplayfulness. You have all of the main things that you love about odard fromthe sixties, but it's really brought together by this disconnect betweenwhat we are told. What theyare seeing as lot of fact, it's plit in the middle,where it also critiques the fill up until that point, trasly you're,absolutely correctly, that this is in so many ways. Moris Propraganda, eventhough whoor may have started to change his mind slightly in the editing roomor at least had his agreement with maniced proponents, which clearlyplayed out in the aniting room as well. Wo Get real intin thin that that has alot of point, an hustle of really intriaduing film terior of Reall,intriguing, realization of that fintery. But hat also attempts to be reallyclear, toplicial agitation to the latterpoint I do agree. I don't thinkit is te people who arn'd actually morise is mosalready. I I ge this tiesin with sixty eight as well, where you had. You know the typically Martastudent, but you have the phynicalist unions clashing, and you have poisinthis film, where you know they're, essentially ripping a park tynicalismand presenting mortismas the only hay but hat the argument. Fortis efsentialdeath is not martism, but literally they extend after argument which homesacross US so silly and tin, which I guess for me. pertonally talerish,doesn't buy the scope of this temagic exploration, but the can see how somany people woill be turned off by that. It's alswort, noting, though, thattinactually toured with these films, showing them at unions and studentgroups etcetera, and that we can probably assume that their targetaudience already had an inclination to agree with them, which is a reallyinteresting part of this as well. Okay, I'll just address something completelydifferent from what you to talk about is the western aspect of the film. As you said Chris, I think to filmrevolve around thes, almost western type of story featuring this prisonerthat is being held captive by Malya Volunti, who, as you said, was prettybig back then for staring in...

Western, and I think it's interestingto see that you would take this very American and Occidental type of filmthat is Western and to use this kind of parody in a film that is colled winfrom the east. Yes, so I E it's interesting to take the Western, whichis this quintessential American thing, and especially when the fimious schooldoes you, as you mentioned when from the East, there's this oppositionbetween West and east, which is prettycool, which is certainlysomething good Ark es about tot. I think that's actually. In manySPACHETTI Westerns, this kind of element of taking the American methin,we exploring it in a different political way. However, I'm a littlecurious about what you guys think about the actual content here and how itrelates to what goodave is doing. Aside from the violence and the generalmotion of representation being illustruated with this western. Do you see a particular point in what is toldin this western Semitory ithink that the plot itself, like amate conduct insuch an extent that the western story itself doesn't really nether, but stillthere aret elements that are carried through this? You do have the wa Ithemarkist intellectual, who is you know this trater to the movement andyou do have various forms of repessed people which, in one scene You k whenthey hang out. Literally hang they've been they've,been violent, Ey saltered an they. Have this talk of what they've done? Youknow they shot th sheriff of Bestberlin, et CETERA and theyventually realizethey're all of the same anies before they rise up so there's. Obviously, ateam illustration of th the lowof class getting together and rising up, but thethats the extent of it really and, of course, Jangrya Valanta- is againrepresentation of emforcement of the law and of the violence with theMarxist Intellectual Sa a Alli, though personally like what really works hefor me, especially wit. Invester, is really the pharmatic exploration whereyou do take Mo pigative estern, Wutyou script, it all back with the Terry offand breaking away from narrative, braking away from characters focusingin on these distancing effects, which, regardless of Hal, you think the messagitself worked t ar really tanke dulse effects Werd. I think that theychallenge the medium in such a way. You haven't really seen before evening ofour work and that's the main reason why it workd soincredibly. Well for me and just to conclude on the westtern aspect, it wasso interesting to note that Globarocia plays a part in the film another bigfun of this films, but I definitey did get a fibeofis. This films in win from the East, specially, is film from one housandninehundred and sixty nine and Toneta mortes. They were probably B shot atthe same time, but I just felt that there was this experimental type of Western vivnwent from the east. Thatwould also later Beg Foundin, Tou, Thetoffski Westerninte seventies, somaybe, when from the East thebimoring pack on Western from the seventies thatwe may have sought at first o didn't actually end up seeing when from theeast. What you guys have said about the film Akes, it sound, really intriguing,Iam, not a fan or film at minimalism in general. But what Matthew has saidabout the filmin particular, even though I story gave it one star onletter box. Actually it fascinates me the most about it, so I do it Fordatting down and watching at some stage, OT, which case I'll be Abe to then getback to guys about it. Really looking forward to that soll and to take usover to the next fel wee talking about Tobabin. What the thing here is reallyinteresting, because essentially it is more mainstream. A more broad way ofimplementing the same political ideas as when from the East and early Sikabout a group, and the group was still involved here, but unliket grup mantraof being credited as a whale. The film is credited as Beein directed by Bodagand Goren and, of course it stars Emis Madam and Gane Fomba nebbing, one ofthe biggest stars and frobs one of the biggest ars in the. U S at the time.It's clear that, unlike the earlier work, which is quite neat and clearlytargeted, teward people already closed...

...to the position of thenevetiv group.This film has much broader appeal. It doesn't take the he same hard linewherein win from the east. You know anything, that's not Marxist isessentially discarded, as in a thistrash here you have charactersrepeating you, don't have to be aleftist or you don't think how to beon the left. To take these things, Tis trying to geneally reach out to theFrench people solisticallit also a lot more consumable vast, heeping, certainbreck in dechniques and playing with the form, a think that is reallyinteresting. Fon play here going all the way back to two hintered things Iknow about her where it is started is a day of making a film. You know you seethe shaps being wit now, who e talking about the very can place the film andalready now, but his little ideas of workers and farmers et Cetera, play inthe top of them completely unrelated, as they triedtowork a Botifil B untilthe SOM in or to lead characters him and her at Tock. Don't evensary knowthat you'll be in for something owordly political. I mean you might haveguessed known what what I hs been doing, but you just introduce to these twocharacters who then suddenly get involved by by accident in AA, Actoiimt teentr, factr wit takeover, where they get trapped in the office witgeneral mannature for several days, and you have this kind of expliration,where you see these striting workers, the kind of conversations betwen thebath and the workers like what real in Figas aclarity, because wher goodourearly work is quite obviously very focussed on the markist theory, butalso very disingrect. Here is very clear and it's even realatively fair.He like the boss, you probably Mont the best liberal arguments, tagainstsocialist, in in terms of the rising living standards for the workers etCetera you let the union come in against this more violent or moreextreme action that had to calm them down, get them back into the unionlines, giving really clear, good orgaments. Why I to show a united frontargue reasonably et Cetera and you get the workers themselves weredisfrustrated by their conditions about how nothing changes, how unions are nolonger scary, while also focusin Hel inability to really express these ideas,which is a real interesting part of this film and together with the colors and thegrativity, and the messaging is clear that is one of bout, most accessiblefilms of the period, clearly one of the most beloved film ofthe period as well. So, let's is all dug into what this film does, what it.Well, if it worked for you al all, starting with Saul, I really love toVabeon. It's my favorite film whos Highli, Hart eouts properly. It's a avery interesting film because, like Chris said, it's a lot about its owninception from writing the czeqks Ne to make a movie The movie actuallyoccurring a lot of it's also about Igom sets and the way films are constructed.There's an open doll house view of the officers when they rap in there. That'swhat of seeing its was like the buildings being cut and halfwee lookingand seeing all these different nevels at once. The opend Alho structure was,of course, used by Jerry Lewis in the Ladiesman N, Oand, nine hundred andsixty one and it's something where o can really say that the French critics,who areprise Ng Lewis, has what have taken these things on board and it'svery interesting to see that structure in there, because the factory Bosteanthey're like scoring about like mic in there. Everything looks really strangeand like very comical, from a distance, but obviously they're very stressed outat the same Tim. It is interesting like Chris mentioned they trapped him therefor days. I don't remember of Han forgiven the specific amount of time B.T everything very quickly turns to Kius everything gets scattered everywhere,every it becomes a complete mess, but sort of like, even though they're headand they're in control of everything when they get trapped inside Theyreandforced to stay in the insave environment as their workers not ableto cope with any of that, and of course, the comical highlight of the film isthe boss not being oold to fight anywhere to urinate and eventuallyhaving sot smash open a window and desperation just so. He doesn't end upurinaning all over the ground, lots of really interesting humor inthere and a lot of it was, I think, boardline even absurdest, a little bitsurreal. It's not quite realistic's a...

...little bit more over the topjust inorder to sort of like give that political message forward about thefact that those who are up there in control actually aren't reallyincontroled and Thena Union strike does take over. They kind o sort of losecontrol and everything basically goes to hell that so we mentioned earlier that Gudaskariahas an AC toit and I think it's very clear over the three FIMS we are mostlytalking about here and to tebjize very clearly an evolution for fondre to geta tough stuff. I think one of the key things happening is that these threefilms Guda is kind of reclaiming his statues as an autor. His just part ofthe group in previous fim now he's just colraborating with Goha and it he showsup in some sense persony much more. Even though he's not literally UNSCREEN,I don't think there's the way that he introduces with thim along with femalevoiceover. I think that's Nism ski M Yeah. I I think it's just much moreeffective for me as a way to Bot the divide between the people talking andthe people they're talking to there's a conflict here, h hat that is addressedvery directly, that is that Goda is anintellectual and that the way hespeaks about these political issues is very aginating. It's only talking tointerectuons, essentially and ithing. That's the case with theetert of thingsand I think Wi with Taavia taking these big stars who are left Tis Stars. Idoes matter, I think, and this more conventional narative. It allows him toassist theoretically, speak to a much broader audience and speak moreemotionally, and I think we see that in the way he approaches the strikers.This is overalld a much more even handed fim than levolest it's not asmuch of thesis Fin. It feels more like an actual essay, an actual way to askquestions politically, rather than providing answers. As Chris mentioned,you have the boss making his case for libalism. You also have the uniondelegates making his own case and you have the workers making their own. I dothink goodass hearts is much closer to the workers, but as supposed to reprucethem whe. As quist mentioned. Some ideas are just rejected out of handbecause they're not part of the group that Godar belongs to, and especiallyyou have. You already have ante Otethin this conflict between the actualworkers and unions. That unions are this institution that, in the end, isalso suppressive. I think that I still thinks that, and I think this is stillpresent in this Wim, but as if your you have moliway to actually see theseissues play out and to make your own mind, you have these people presentedas people, it's more humanistic as a film which I think I respond to muchmore. I just thought I might respond to something which mathcew said the hesaid it was a good idea having these igname actors in there like Jon Fonder.I left us at Atrest to sort of appear to have brought a spectrum of film goes.However, I sort of feel that if somebody really like c mov at somebodyreally like clut tat down to watch Ato Vabian, I think that'd, be you kN owabsolutely confounded wha they're watching. I don't know if I'l enjoy it,but it is definitely interesting costing decision getting this two bignames in the film was a great wage for Godou to have its film talk aboutbecause from what I remember, both of these actors are not very used toplayng in this type of films. So it was certainly very interesting to see themin t e, more esay type of film. I have to say that overard Turabian didn't domuch for me. It out of few interesting idea that I really liked. I liked thevery first seen the Intero, which say that's Um to make a family need money,and you see them writing checks to everyone involvd in te film. I feellike it really shows how much money it's needed to make fels and that noteveryone can can afford it at the time. I think, as you said, everyone gets tomake them point and it's Feema is a bit more conventional and straightforwardin its message. Yours AV, since, towards the end of the film, I thinkwhere we we have a brief view of working conditions, even though the passages should arevery brief, you can feelo aliunating the work looksorevesitive the dusk farthere was also the supermarket scene at the end, which I thought wasinteresting. Thi twe minutes seen that...

...just showcases people with their courtin the supermarket filled with any type of products. It also features this guy trying tosell. I lefthis books right Inthe supermargets, which is strange becauseit's definitely not ha type of place. You would expect to say that and expectpeople to be receptive so yeah it hassome good ideas, but for some reasonI didn't really work out for me. I guess maybe it's, because it was moreconventional that is als from this period. Guess I was a bit less focus onthe story, but I think that it could be a good introduction to this spirit fromwithout time. Sorry here that he didn't like to fil more Clem, but I do reallylike the fact you mentione the supermarket seeand. That's really stuckreally firmly and graind. To my mind in the weeks since ofviewing the film andjust the whole way, the emarket was filmed with this elongated truckingshot just reminded me a lot about the Ninehnnd, an sixty seven God od filmweekend, which is all about this long traffic jam due to a road accident, andwhen I saw that's what immerely sprung to mine. So, for me, that was likeGodard's commentary F, what the supermarket culture is like, but themassacestic factory culture is like it's a lot like a traffic germ, it'swor of like a royal accident. He somthing, which is like really cloggedup and which isn't really natural to the flow and the order of things insociety. And yet it's something that we rely upon. Whether we want to undercellto Abian as a feel that's not expimental or interested in form,because it still does a lot of really great devert, even though it is clearerand more accessible. Even in the conversations within the factory, youknow we will have the inform, as a journalist, ask people questions andinstead of hearing her ask and seeing the PERSO respond is shot. Slightydistorted and you have one of the people watching this unfoldingdescribing it and you have all of these scenes where the playing Grubat, whatyou see who's speaking and you do have door shots towards the end. Like thefood market seen which Aus tis fantastic tract is going back and forthan seem developed, and I think that it does a lot of really great worket. Ifwe interested in Odad FOM, my potectular form, I still think you canget along out of it. You an ive into the Umarken tin and a plot that kind ofties in with the FIM as a whole. I Ti Conversationhas had earlier in the vill.I whichcest that the union los to control your life from you know, eightto five at the party was to control everything else and throughout the filmyou kind of have this dissenting opinion and is vesaft critique of boththe unions and Ou know the COMPNIS anisortais parties as stagnating sortot project and holding the workers down and Feemis, essentially encouraging theworkers to rise up and take a stance on their own, and I think one of the mostinteresting things about that seem as it passe back te Foris Tat. Every timeit hits the place where you have this. You know intellect alicis, a Nember ofthe COBDIS party selling. This word Folki on how toesentially be more civiland worth within the system which you know for the ARD, especially would becompromising in betrayal and how he Kowostentialy is chanting out eNameisbooke and then I believe something like it used to be five.Seventy now it's four ninety and it's just this chanting of the discount.It's just it o discount it of this comtniss is repeated and repeated eforeto fades out as the camer moves and fades in as t ever comes back, and Ithink it really Commons arm know how could a port that the movement as ahall was losing its way between a Sootn Ted show case this to the audience yeah.I I also love that final scene that final big traveling over thesupermarkets. I think it's gorgeous and I think you seegoda going back to beinga Formalista it with that. I also think it's a fim about dissimusionment withthe Communist Party with the syndicates. He was already pretty dissolutioned, Ithink before, but now he's looking at things kind of externally, not feelingthat he is part of the movement anymore. I would say- and I think that makes his views moreinteresting- I think you see it through the character of Ivunto, who is kind ofa good asstanding, and you also see the conflict that Godaf feels himself to bein with Montan working for advertising, and I think you see that with Godahaving to make this slecty more commercial famiy, these stars obviouslyTha's reflected in Thi story, and yet...

...it it's really. The film of Pust Sixtyeight maters for me and that scene that supermarket scene is full of that. Thebits with the comcommunist party member, this kind of absurdist humor, evenbecause having a communist member talk about the discountast. You mentioned,that is kind of a Bunuel touch, and I think the scene where the loss has tope is also very Benin. I think just generally to Ama is for me a return toform literally. He is allowing himself to use his natural talents for cinemaagain, which he was kind of restrained out of in the TGATERTO oop. I olt areally interesting book. Gand too, this new kind of Thingan, this new politicalworld, the working on starting from sixty eight because essentially thewhole premnest of it is may nine tend sixty eight may nine hundred and eventytwo, which is when this was shot or presented for and essentially analyzing everything that has beenhappening. Not to the point where you know we have the moton character.Speaking the record to the camera being interviewed. Talking about how he wasinvolved in a new wave seem such a long time ago, Howe was swept up at sixtyeight. How so many other people were as well and Thas how everyone went alongwith their own lives? Afterwards, N, I th e Seld of self pitsystems, if notjust echatism, for a partind criticism for the unions, Aperson from where thewoman is right. Now it's also pick sym of himself, because we don't know howinspired the molon character is from Odarg Yo see him talking about how weknow he didn't do as much tass hi should he went to a couple ofdemonstrations a he has given the humility, you know e as Ou know, youwould see the rectors across the room n ewondering like what the hell are. Youdoing here give t the type of field you make and then reflecting that theyprobably cougt exactly the same about him. So O just had this kind ofdisillusionent. This kind of critique of he intellectuals, wor kind ofinvolved, they kind of present themselves as revolutionary, but thendon't really do much. Don't reeally participant, don't really think aboutan Tis go on with their lives as well, and it just all. This ties to get adisentire procect in a way whereit started of extremely radical, but justdissenting into smaller and smaller Nich focuses and than ending up it asmuch grander scale with just a lot of confusion, disillutionmens andanuncertainty, because I do think get a heart of this essay is just- Is Adeathat it doesn't really know the pet forward. Thar's a col to action for theworkers stand up in such any way they can, but that's it, and it doesn'treally seem to be able to give any further advice, whereas the previousestays Er essentially have books in the way. Ththis is Ote. Doing this is apolitical adeology. This is the aim. Here's this s so much absertinty, somuch ratique at desom, O of sadness. That's Realy, really interesting towatch. Yes, it's Gooda admitting that he doesn't have the solution and thatpeople will have to find a solution. It's Inin the sense offendted is verycontemptuous of everyone, but most especially of himself, and I think,does find some kind of hope in the workers characters in there. I thinkthat honesty and ther the experience they have in doing this strike. I thinkin that sense it is both extremely pessimistic because everyone kind oflooks bad, but there is just this tingy glimmer of hope that I think, makes thefim work and his on at Wal morning which Os Really Inaner workers aretrying to explain their ply to them fond as a journalist and they stolt toexplain the working conditions et Cetera di. They literally stop becausee realize they're saying exactly the same thing as a union. Reud say thisiscome of element, temidities are fiele about in our factory strike afactoresit in he factory takeover, but e Cana partiquein ti sting that everysingle time this is done. This is show is like someone sees a factory for thefirst time people come in and they say you know. Oh. This is sad that theseare not great working conditions and then they leave this se to dust as well,but it's self critical enough at I implantis adear that this is n't enoughand workers. Just don't have the word to express the reality right now. ND. Ithink thate's this lack of a voiceis lack of knowing what to say and whatcan break through to view it as he whole N it. Also it's very understade.It's not something. That's shown a great amount of foeoe ALSA feals, likea pimotal scene, and it is also really fascinating that this was essentiallythe end of an era. Take about a group Ho would distand stortly after theymade Hem Really Thort S. Thei film called letther to gain with hisaddressing himself to gain Fonda after the event, and then the group is nomore podarg teams up with Amry Muvell who he would eventually end, have beena reationship wit for at Lastin thes...

...days, the fifty ar relationship, andthey would to get a form. The prolucking company Salymars, which wasactive until very beginning of the eighties. I encompassing the entiretyof the rest of the seventies and even though they're not as productive as seeAvetan group. This is also a period which is inthreadably important to godat as an artist. It sow a lot of development and I think it allso showcases this kind of partly with a more equal partner of you, see and feel howwithout dominates witin the Siravorka group, but with his partnership withmiryl his cinema drastically changeess. He was always known for this sarcasticdouble Edde Sword, wih. All of anything co be seen as both ironic and true. Atthe same time, in the later films, this is torn down to a large extent and youget something a lot more earnest and the F says become in many ways whatcalmer and clear, but also a lot more distant because of what marwel and goodort relationship really develop into is a thurder focus on what a cinematicmedium can doo, and one of the highlights of this is numeraldu whichplace on the ability to have two screens at the same time, h play withprojection anall th for poumatic perspectives, so increbesit te dosplitscreens with two TVs, so weill have, for instance, Tha seen unfoldingwith one character of on TV, another charcter on the other TV stillinteracting. Sometimes it Ittn the IMERG, sometimes with the same scene.You see scenes of conversation tuxabls on top of each other, is just thisinteplane how the medium works, and especially given the title, these twodifferent screens once again and what is alsinting, is even though it', sodistancing and so theoretical in its vistual art and form. It is also areally clair as a thing, a say on the power relationship in a family Seeng,the husband, andvite, clad, interposing sex, calling out both te fill aboutpolitics and Aporn, and it does so many unusual, especially if, for good ar andinteresting things there, it feels more persoal, it feels more intimate and ifintimacy is also contrasted by how distance it is, is really one of themost complex works Godart ever participat in and it stands reason whyit' really held up, even though only by a handful of critic and Academics Tas,one of its most important works, I really enjoyed Nimerodu. It was avery surprising and challenging film Formeia. I found it very similar towatching a Michael Snow movie, so like the experimental films of Michael Snow,he has got a film like so as this, which is just words in a screen for theway that snow plays round with the size. The words adds a lot of humor in it,and and sothing happend with the two television sets an Numerodu, so oftenlyjust see the two at the same size, but sometimes one screen is larger than theother screen. Sometimes we just see one screen and we don't seem the secondscreen the SA that we get from Ta come to the point where you get shots lateron in the film and Y Gong to see one screen, and it makes you wonder, what'sactually going on the second screen, because when the two screens aretogether, sometimes they compliment each other B T. sometimes they also lcontroject themselves, which is really interesting, because Godon, of course,has been quite ina saying that cinema is true, go twenty four frames persecond and in the film he's challenging what we understand to be truth Bo. Whatis true on one screen is sometimes contradicted on another screen.Something else which also seemed very much like Michael Snow to me was theway that shots would transition could be looking at one character, and thenyou have like a black and white reaction shot that would sort of getpasted over, which is very similar to what Michael Snow was doing in CorpusColossum. That was, of course, twenty seven years later, and God had alreadystarted doing this over here in Numerodo, like Chris, said a lot ofit's about high relationships within the family, and I guess how we abewthose relationships which is really interesting. When I watched the film, Ithought this is an amazingly disfunctional couple. They are terribleparents just away there doing all this Sexua exprisid stuff in front of theirkids. The way they walk about the house naked. But I don't know, if necessarilysomething that's true to Wer, just the...

...way that I've been perceiving it. Butit's just interesting. The power play exists there and even wor. The titalHumero do so, who is naturally number two in the household as also a humorousthing that the owoman is constapaend Shea got the number twos in that wayalso is at euphermism for a bowel movement and, of course, you've got thenumber two. As the television searchd theyd got the second television anthere. Also an that's one of the things that I think ill mention is that it'sincredibly funny film also at times as an amazing party and there, wherealways on the true screens, is just flickering lights. The most screensstart to flicker. It's like a pair of eyes. It's like in Mononclervy Jack,tuttee film. Where y have the house there with the chippy bl, the windowslooks like eyes the same o of things happening in Umrojo, so it' all aboutGod, dieduping to build fun, also, where film form, which is the way it'salways being about soting Tis film, really represents go and reallyrepresents him at his best when Heis at his most child and junior, but also at,is most fun an interesting. It's not a very angry film. A lot of his laterfilms seem very angry. I got very heavy politics in there. It's a little moreon quite light heart, but it's a little more relaxed, maybe in Humerido. So Ithink mlda is either a combination or a capituation. For me, it's definitely acrimmination. I think it's, my favorite of the twifiens we've discussed and oneof Myit goodovrall, but in some sense it is a capitulation because he is kindof accepting that his nature or what he is is a formalist that the wholepolitical stuff. Of course he cares about it. But what he is is someone whois just very talented at using cinema and using it in ways thatexplored a form more than really the content, even though the content isinteresting here as well. I think you see that, as so mentioned earlier, withthe worldplay, and especially with the title, Yowhodo has many many meaningspossible to IAT. I think one of them is also number two, as in the second sex,because Tefin is about sex booth in terms of physical sects otiously, we sehot of it, and also Genger relations within the coupal hut. When you tackabout inderrelations within the COPN, you are talking about endoeations as awhole, because a campos also common, I meanitit's a basic part of society. SoI think this there is still a political angle to this, but one that is moresuited to what Godar canactually do, which is toe experiment with the formand another way in which Themldo is can have another meaning is in the way heusei, O ttvs, as you mentioned, and with that he's essentially weinventingthe shot, wivers shot structure, which I think is fascinating. That impressedme out the first time I saw it. I can' think of another triend that does it sowell, that' Rey we can petualize is the way we watch thems and the way we watchjust simple conversations. There is the scene where you have the mother talkingwith the daughter and Oho. I think it's totwo children talking together whenone is talking all of a sudden. You have the this image of her face. Who is enlared onscreen? I guess that's justso you at the time something that he could only do, because he was workingwith video and something that Wey we don't. We still don't see that much. Ihaven't seen the firms of Micraosnow, so maybe maybe there's some of that aswell there, but I think that's what I love about we wll do is that you bothhave this central relationship which I've actually found quite tender. Idon't Nesaly agree that they are that terible parents. I don't know that Ithat it's a great thing to be as honest about sex as they are, but it doesn'tseem that that to me either and regardless of what one things I dothink the film has a lot of tenderness for those characters, which isdefinitely something new in good asing, maybe from the start, and you may allto I, Proris of famly enjoy the most out of the three films with Tiscust. Sofar, I think the first thine was quite interesting because, when Guda speaksdirectly to the Gemera for a few minutes because of this complete remageof the scene with Ifmoto discustom in a which I guess makes it even moreobvious that the character evmodon place is goodm himself regetting, therest of the film, the form was obviously very interesting, as that youmentioned, don't think it's something that was common back then, and itdoesn't really been reproduced. So it's definitely a very unique film, even forin Goda cymography. I think it's Goinna is more experimental. Maybe it was onlyof me, but I was focussing a lot on the...

...form of the film on the two delevisionscreens, trying to make something out on what I was seeing and as a result, Imaybe I wasn't focusing enough on what was going on actually on those screento the relationship that the family had. So maybe by doing this very creativesetting, distract vewrs from what was actuey going on the screens. Anotherthing I think is Um interesting to point out is the fact that the film isshown on television screens and Thefilm came out in seventy five, which wasback when television became popular in Frence and every outsort started oningo TV. I wonder if Goda didn't forecast the fact that television would have ahuge impact on society and the way that people would now consume films throughtelevision and maybe neme would do since we were talking about thedifferent meaning of MEMALEO. Maybe nemail do is the second screen andcinema would be the first screen. I absolutely love what you said: Clemabout the odd television screens and the fact that, even though we'rewatching a film, we are watcheding television screens twithin the film. Itreminds me a lot of one of my very favorite films, which I seem to keepmentioning. Each podcast, a video drawim and profesor Brian Obliviana inthe film videodrome o refuses to appear on television except on television,soit's. All idea that we're seeing a scream withinside a screen whichhighlights the artificiality of cinema. I know it's something that youmentioned, Clem, which you said you found it a bit distracting cousetratingthe true screens. I think that's kind of intentional, because God I doesn'twant us to treax into his film. He wants us to be aware of how harhlyconstructed it is as well as aware of the fact that we're sitting optin afilm, I Guess Against Yours- O videodraw at a for'm. Sorry about this. I sorlike the opposit of sticking ahead inside an television screen and beingimmersed by instead, we are made hih aware of the fact of what we are seeingis something that is being filmed as something which is being constructed. Ithink it's extremely interesting, especially because, like it said, it'sbeen majoring this point in time which television screens are becoming verymuch a part of the home where you'd expect it to be there like very much apart of the furniture and just regarding the two screens and T it'squite distracting. It's it's rea, shame smartphones, weren't out at the timeyeah. I think you can be pretty sure that if good o Madi m today- Wei, smartphones but love what they were all sayingabout the two sqreens and Thinki, what was happening on the alter screen andthe relationship between them nd, it is actually imitate, and it is possiblethat Odar was even saying you allmy see one of the screens and asking questionsin terms of this power relationship. There are two people in it. You seethese two screens, sometimes with Yocharacter, sometimes with the same ona different context and hat hey may be showing that t e t v or just youpersonally will only see one of these. You won't get the full story, but alsoadding to the four vocus you een. Talking about how distracting it is. II actually think it's great tograt the ways to create pension and tensionwithin the image is all the main things that Golddog does so well andreshponted things. I perstay have love Todort for from theiry, beginninginters, that almost every single film starts of. I H The idea of how do wemake Afaim work? Almost every single film is in some way, ameanly experimenton its own and how we can still maintain interest, and the fact thatyou have these tru screens glaring out of you, incomplete darkness, creates somuch dispense when going back to Godag long introduction as well, Lkthesuspensive state and the way he's able to do it or the way he Amira is able todo. It is incredably impressive, because it's very just one shot of himparting, but Yo Hav his face somewhat obscured a television set behind him,showing his face talking and a profector Aind, the other direction andmating noises mdesis. This interplan his rality of two Godag, the projectorand the noise you just drawn into this frame and in manages to keep yourattention there, which I think its just so impressed him and t e final note onTust. Tis have contradiction with in it between the very important essay andstory, power relationships and the form. I can definitely see a pointer goinginto Goodarvian lorgyfor. The form...

...certainly te me that I was far morefocussed on the form than relationship himself at least the first time, but asthis was a remor from me, a manager to appreciate the actual essay and Thistory a lot more too, and it may be that e will work very different forpeople giving their experience where some of whos not interest, informed, ilstill get the estay and someone interest informat, not interestin inthe materials, as they will still get the form they can still work in abouttwo ways. To think. That's also quite interesting and time back to what wewere all saying about. The relationship itself would hactally be more on theside of mature and sense of tenderness. It's certainly especially from themodern morality and a little bit of putting in some ways, but you do getclose to these characters and to feel the ten minutes between the family andrelationships which selve contraste with violence, because what is sointeresting in essay itself, Om what they choose to show is againtthisfunction, O ta to up with all the tenderness with Ta couple you see theloving embraeers. You see the calm way. They explain sex and love to theirchildren, but then you also see you know movments that are far more violent,Younomal to get into better tink. It is also compressed really well and createsthis kind of again doolily of the contrast in relationship so thires s somuch going on in this film. One thing I woul had to add onth going to of t V,which you guys mate. Some excellent point about. That is also how intimatethe thing is. I think that is one characteristic of TV whyn TV is in yourown whop. You have a much more, maybe intimate relationship with the thingsyou see on TV thand. The things you see in the cinema and conversely, this is avery intimate film about, among other things, sex and also the way itapproaches. The relationship again is is quite intimate. I A tothink on thatpoint. It's worth talking about an Maime Elille, who is, I think, colitedas a contector Sheis. Basically, the third mews at got Er House after anAcahena and Anjizm ski which who was involved in the two P v Fhoms we talkabout, but baby Chris can say more about that. Well, do you think thatwhat separates this relationship from the rerelationship is that ne? You canreally feel it an equal partner and is alto felt in the shift. This drasticshift from Godage, more sarcastic fool, O humor. The kind of thing hit wasdoing to this more e Cu call vidiard. In a way it is tery different, folk,Onforman likeit, which does feel like a natural contideration. It also takesthe portrait as how it' show, and it's interesting that you know culdarimentating credits nebl for putting this focus into the film. The MI isactually the person whois reading up some of the dialongin too thissomething that consistent in Tepartnership, where both of them innarraed films as Ean. He Woman Ayou think that the influence ye had hiswork is much great t. They had an production company together an thereally worth of equal partners, so I addicted at reallysee that you get botha new kind of Nemat expermentation and a new focus N. moving from this kind ofgrand systematic agitation to the politics of intedimental relationships,nearit is far more than amused: Sheis Jues, an equal parter in all of thesefilms nd. I can really feel Tut impact she had on. We Art, Meth and Chris keeptalking about all the tenderness between the characters. My reading ofthe film was very different. As I sort of alluded to earlier honor, I feltthey're al highly dysfunctional family and the way the parents dealt withtexandorting sexual reminme Oot Allof, these mindes film away. We go whereMaggie Jilmanhall and o husband played two characters who actually had sex inthe AR same bed that they're sleeping with their children s while thechildren are in the bed, and the couple just reminded me of of that- and Iguess I don't know- maybe I sound like a bit of a prude. I just felt the wholeway theyg were showing off. You know, parts of the body the way they theadults would Um dance round. The housenakeand would encourage theirchildren todaunce about in the underwert. The way the mother explainedto the daughter that the hold on a body is where the baff water goes a lot ofit just seemd very Um. I don't know it just seemed to me, like they weren't,quite cloping with being parents, not quite hoping were being able to explainthings to their kids and dealing like mature adults would do which is sort ofhaward ste with that dispunctional relationship, whereas we sae they're,not quite as happy as they see yeah. I don't know, the family are definitelyquite close. They do explain things in a Candona to their kids e sort of Te re,showing a maybe cross section of...

...society which isn't really coping thatwell- and I don't know if that hires into the television culture and maybethe whole idea that everybodyis you know obsess, was seing down andwatching things on television, these days, they're not getting around toexplaining and told me through other watches, in a different way. You knowit's just my reading that I'd walk to the film, don't like to figure myselfas a prude, so I don't know T it's just the way that I approach it so just tovarilify. I think what I meant with tenderness is more the way the FIMapproaches the character. I feel there's a tendness there. There is alsosome between the characters, but alsotem is fighting and certainlythey're, not perfect. I would not call them dysfunctional, but that's foat. Ithink what real inteen is is does show the bad and the good. So do you thinkthat it do get tenders, wet scenes between the parents and the childrenbetween husband and wife, and do get somethings that are hile questionabeDugan scenes whichard more wild than think that it's trying to in many waysshokas the complexity of the family unit and all of the issues and problemsin the conflicts that can arise? That may seem mundane, but have a verydifferent tactig to take all of this in and put it together into one wordanything that of the main strength of the peat, as well as it does exploreall of these contradictions to Po adiction between love and the power andAmic in itself, which cant even get a little bit protest. This one comment amthe way the parents act as well, a D. I think this May altob a matter of fiftymorals, because if you go back to the sevt the way parents act interastedwith the children mast quite different, I mean you can see this even in Fito, Ofrom SCN Nati, which was alsonormal to have ey knew the round. I childrenesetter so do think that this is a way that society has shifted and that's whymodern audiencs might react a little differently. So that's a completelyfair point Chris and I think wet was probably about the baggage that as ayou, I'm bringing to it or review in the twenty first century than I'mbringing to it by watching them. Film do like what you say about the family,paodynamics and, of course, the person who has the most power in the entirefilm actually isn't any of the characters, but he has godout himself'cause he's deciding which television set to show us where they shows us bothsaid or just one said how big the television sets so he's the person hhas the most power over them. I guess, from that point of view, I tholt thecharacters were more porns in his movie, so were sort of playing andmanipulating them around yeah. I don't know I mean Icanunderstand a tenderness. It's just not quite what I felt while watching it.I did joke about and he's actually going to lot of contempt for thecharacters like the movie contenpt, but I guess maybe it's just a wholedisinteresting thing of doing it through twu screens with a blackness inbetween, but I didn't feel like what I really loved the characters as muchthat he loved exploring different dynamics between the characters justworth quickly, mentioning that regarding Te Im contempt, there isactually seen here that reminded me not of the scene in which Picoli isdescribing wishul Ba os body, and you have a very Similo scine here. I thinkthey are kind of sister firms. In a sense they different views, ofterelationships. I think it's also really interestingthat it is Anessean. You can't feally spoil it in the final Tena. Youactually have these points brought at the discul Dart. Who is you know themanipulate and even get accusations from the main actress in the form ofhim, choosing what to tell him forming a story and leaving it whenever e feelslike it, it opens and end with Codart, and it ties in this ornamic Tis form ofrepresentation into the film. As well and this form of just bringingeverything at once, every sensibility, contrasting views and filled bork in fomany different patets really represent. What could armiwell would do for therest of the decade as well? You see it o hear an other where they tookmaterial. That was SOT bising about a group and we cut it into their own wordand it feel so much closer. This too, you do feelthe expersation betweenwhat's happenig t infrance what's happening there elsewhere, and eventhere you also have the family watching T v and the presentation of the worldstill plays into it and even more interesting, though they hardly seen Em,I ach impossible to get, but would also make two teamy shows in this period,focusing on the same things increasing the tennants decreasing the play andthe greactivity and alist how you can explort form, but not in Cinma, on TVand in the televisial, medium and...

Nubroduke is a really good startingpoint for all of this, and this is alo a really good way towrap it all. But before we leave hen is want to ask each cohos to one finaltime tell our listeners, weather or not. They should seek out godage work fromthe seventies. I definitely think people should check out go aen from theseventies. I hope we manage to sort of film in the light that makes peoplewants to Sek out his work. I would suggest, however, not to start withthis period of GOODEF Yor new to him, maybe start with his earlier fam fromthe sixties. I think there would be a better introduction, even though I justsaid that emailthe was the first family, so buand he actually enjoyed it. Somaybe you can start with this one and say you feel about the rest, butoverall, I think ISM. If you like good in general, there is absolutely noreason you wouldn't like if I'm from e seventies, so I would say in any casejust ye go for it. I definitely agree with that sentiments,though, even though I si EO the first maybe would not recommend that seeingit again for the pacast, I really saw how much more I got out of it. Knowinggoodas work much better, especially tototions before it that disgust, Ithink y a th, seventis good, AAs, very interesting. A would specificallyrecommend me who do but even thou thegether t of stuff, even though it'snot my thing is just interesting to see both in terms of his personal evolutionand also just how lift intellectuals of the time where we acting troe. What wasgoing on in the world. I would, of course, Ily recommend at Godard',ninehteen and seventy's output. I don't know if I recommend it as a startingpoint, but that's just because it wasn't a starting point for mepersonally watching a whole bunch of his eighties films Ive en count up howmany was really interestidg. In going back and looking at the seveny stuff,the stuff he did between his most acclaimed period to the stuff like nom,Carmon and howl Marri in the nineteen, a d eighties FORMEA was veryinteresting approaching it. That way, I don't know if it's necessarily a badpoint to start off with Onnumero do and t vabion. It might be a good startingpoint, depending that you know what you're an for like if you've seenenough experimental films, especially like I mentiond ofor, the films ofMichael Snow, I think it'd be feeling very comfortable watching. Seventy hasgot ord if youhave never seen an Aunti narrative film before it might not bethe best place to start, but otherwise I think both films were quite watchable,and I think that would appeal quite well to film goers, who have alreadyseen a few other experimental and Antinera films in the time yeah. Ithink I agree with all of you in that this proly shouldn't be your startingpoint like the most accessible workglod is from the sixties, and if ye canfollow that evolution and and loving like not and weekend, there is a prettyclear path into the Zega work and stuff. Similarly, if you are one of the Godarfans who love is eigties an Nineti later word, if you INAN love is mostrison film, the image book or one of the people who hi like Isra to cinemaas one of his best work, you really need to go back and see hiscollaborations with Mabell, because this is where so mart of that actuallystarted the plague Wat, not just poor, but wit the Medimina televisioal Wa,this kind of credit he would later use the type of widewyork. You would latthe play with all of that really tarch. Here. If you like his relater work, youreally owit yourself to go back and see the murder here, n elsewhere and hisother collaborations, with Amry Mirill, and with that Taki for this name anddons again soon you have been listening to talkingInmechen the Fishal halt, Gat e ICMFOR, dotcom.

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