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Talking Images

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

They Spoil Pictures, Don't They: Do Spoilers Actually Hurt Films?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How do you feel about spoilers?

Can they actually hurt your viewing experience?

Does even knowing a film has something "spoilable" about them have the potential to affect you?

What lengths (if any) do you go to in order to avoid spoilers?

Should you even avoid reading up on films before watching them, or can films also be hurt by going into them them "blind"?


In this episode we will cover these topics, and much, much more.


Spoiler Warning:


In this episode we will spoil: The Sixth Sense, Psycho, Scream and Titanic. Many other films will be mentioned in passing, but the spoiler(s) will not be revealed.


We will also end the episode on an indepth, spoiler-ridden discussion of The Crying Game, which 3 of the co-hosts just watched, two for the first time.

You are listening to talking efictionsTe fficial, podcast, Om, ICM Forumcom. In this episode we will spoil the sixcents. We weil spoil psycho, weweal, spoil scream and it'll even spoiltitanit. Allthe films, no dimension- I don't worry- will be good. The actualspoilers will never be revealed, and with that sed welcome back to everyone,I'm Chris Anda, you might havgest. This episode is all about spoilers. How dowe feel about them? The spoilers actually have the power to spoil filmscould even know that there is something spoilable in the field heard if Unieperience is it actually the case? That's always best to go into a filmblind and to what lengths do I and I coholse go to avoid spoilers to tolpwith all off e will have an Indat distrustion of the crying game, whichis, shall we say quite famous for having a twist three of my Co. Holes have just watchedit to for the very first time and they will explore the topic of how knowingthe spoiler or just knowinktor is a spoiler can affect. How review a film with me today are four wonderfulcohoalth. Can? Yes, selosis clem pro friend Om APE TO BE BUN and reallylooking forward to talk about spoilers with Youk Tom Hi. This is Tom fromEngland, I'm extremely sensitive to spoiler. So I'm looking forward toseeing what my co host have to say on the same topic fo I am so fromAustralia. I watched Sevent Samurai for the first time today and I'm reallyinterested in discussing today's topic to see, if, like with seven Sumrai,will make me change my mind about some movies that maybe I have not seen yet this so hap o Fivetis, so seven Sumarithores the Fantastichire from last week episode out films we haven't actuallyseen and also finally, for the very first time, I'm really happy to VelpupAdam not to be confused with our producer Atam from Scotland. This is abrand new Adam from New York, so take the way at them introduce yourself Xaomfrom New York City long time. Listen our first time participant, I'm veryexcited to be here and to talk about spoilers and plot twists and any manymovies that may or may not contain both all right great to have oimboard o them.So let's just get straight into it and answer the question how the refealabout spoilers and we can start with clam my opinion about supoilers- havechanged a lot over the years. When I first started watching films abouteight nine years ago, I was mostly watching them for the stods. So for me,if a film was spoiled, if I knew the ending, if, like nuws a twist, therewere no reason to watch this film anymore. When I started watching morefilms and as years go by, I realize that film isnot only about Yhour story. It's about the visuals! It's about how the film ismade. It's a lot of different things combined and the story is only one ofthem, so I started being a bit less turned off if I knew the story or if Iwas the engine or if I new te twist, because I realize that well, there areother things that we should be looking for in a film than just testorage Olfor any particular film that made you get Ol thisit was just naturalevolution. I think it was just a natural evolution, I would say maybeWel we discuss is fam later on, but I was a really big fan- fight crup as ateenager, which is a film that well, let's Thay, have some kind of twist andI rewatched this film a few times and realized that well, even though I knewthe story very well, even though I knew what was happening, I still could enjoyit very much. So I realize that well, even knowing the story and going totwist, there are still a lot of things you can look for in a film to enjoy soTA. How do you feel about boilers, I'm quite sensitive when it comes tospoilers? I love nothing more than watching a film with little knowledgeof how it's going to pan out and just allowing the director to take myadventure. Surprise me shock me and I fiund that Nowin as little as possiblereally helps this. So I will try to...

...avoid reading about a film beforehand.I will actively avoid watching trailers when I'm in the cinema, about to watcha film if a trailer comes on for something that I haven't seen, but intentosee have been known to close my eyes look away because, as I said, Ilike going in there in as as little as possible, will rarely read reviewsfilms of e interested in before watching them, and I just find it it'sbetter to trust in the in the filmmakers that I know I enjoyed and goalong with the rides and, as I said, I love being surprised and then giving upa pretty good point there. Even just watching this trailer can spoil almostentire film in terms of tjust, showing you scenes all throughout the filmvhich context. Er In wher they are lik te emen spoilers of classic films, thatmost of the moder drailers of stocer show th final scene that final Soltn,this entireties. That is pretty ridiculous. THAT'S THE TREND! You seein almost all different styles. If you are senstat te spoilers, I think that'sa really good move. Without naming the filming question,there was a trailer I watched recently for a film and it's about two peopleand there's a shut in the film where it was just showing one of the persons onthe own, an Pur, a shot towards the end of the film and things like that canjust give you an idea of what's going to happen, and then you always got itin the backof. You mind that something's going to happen to thischaracter. Why aren't they there in that shot of beautifully pivtic time sogoing on to Sall? How do you feel about poilers? It's quite interesting.Listening to Clem talk about reading up as little as possible about filmsbefore seeing them whan. He first got into them. I first gon into moviesaround eightee or nineteen years ago. Uld Actually read up quite a bit aboutthem beforehand, because I had just such limited knowledge of films, aroutthis or usually read a few reviews along reviews like Hollywolls typestyle review short reviews like from Melton's film guard before I actuallysat down and watched it as things have progressed along, thoughit's got to the point where I try to as little as possible about a film beforewatching it. I like Tom's description of it being an adventure and beingready for the fillmaker to shock and surprise you s, I try and read up aslittle as possible. I really like going in the films blind, often with bigfilms that come out from the clain of filmmakers. I will not read up anythingabout. I just know that it's a good director, so I'm going to sit down, I'mgoing to watch it just base on the director or maybe based on the genree.If it's a Horro Sidfi film will just go and see it ill is a tricky one,especially if you're going to the cinema and going the simmer for me isuse a bit of a social things. So I can just to close my eyes and put my handsover my ears. Without you know, looking a bit strange and a Bitad but trailers,sometimes you can'd avoid them. They do toy with your expectation, so I try andavoid them as much myself, except if it's something where I don't think, I'mgoing to see it. Sometimes it's actually interesting watching thetraier, like I still got a large VHS collection, because ovstomis runningfast corwarding through ther'll be a trailer and just as it's playing I'mnot recognizing the film. So I gol, maybe actually will watch this just tosee what the film is for. Usually I can work out what the film is for withoutwatching the trailer, but if I curt sometimes it's interesting a yourtrailers, not great for Playn, with expectations unless ye get somethinglike Thomas Anderson, film, and I remember I don't of how offencehappened, but definitely with bant and thread. There are quite a few shots inthe trailer forthat, the Dinactualy Mak into the final film, and I can remember,if PTA did it on purpos or not. It is interesting about the effects that atrailer can play with expectations yeah in general, as Toma Sarv, just like tobe able to trust the filmmaker and go in and see the film myself and see whatit's like. I have to say and how I tus have thispicture of you in a thingamoit. Your Haus is trying to cover your eyes andears, singing or screeching, so Yo, don't Har the SOM with every otherperson. Looking at you, it's a fantastic, fantastic risual, yeah wel!That's what I'd like to be Ab to do, but I know thou socially can't do it,though the most interesting ones. Actually, when I'm in the car and atrailer comes up on the radio I and sometimes try and turn the volume downan that's want o like wait, thirty seconds and then put the volume back up.That sounds like something that I would do so and I'm quite pleased that I'mnot the only one who goes to such extreme length, aford a ilm beingspoiled for me. I would also like to mention that Idislike trailors very, very much. It's actually one of the reason I wopstopped going to cinema, because here we have about twenty twenty fiveminutes of traidors before the actual film starts and well. Most of them arether, obviously repetitive and,...

...as said before, some show all the goodparts of film and well it does the complete opposite, because the trailershould make you want to go and see the film and for some film it looks likethat. Arl good parts can be just resumed in a one minute, thirty video.So then for me she is Wat. PREMITO, no reason to go and see that film, andit's also because, most of the time, those films are, you know, Bery yourbig brogbusters type of films. So we need to show action, films, explusionsstuff, like that O, which is something I'm not very interested in and anotherproblem. I think with trailers that most of the time they fail to capturethe ssense of what the FAM really is about because well, as I said before,the main goal is to make people want to go, see the film, even by by any meanpossible, so sometimes it', includedn lying to a spectator by make cootingyour scene that are actually not in the final film as sove mention for thepentom thread. I think so yeah. I think traders are a very bad thing. It's interesting point mentioned abouttrailers and them being misleading. A good example I can think of from recenttimes was Itonia, which is actually a really good film, but the way I wasadadvertise it kit coming up the good fellors of ice skating movies and arthe way that the trais will cut together made me expect this reallywinty good fellos type of film, which it actually isn't Iy, can just jump in fom a moment todefend trailers. I have usually in the past, really enjoyed them and reenjoythem as part of this inimagoing experience an completely admit thepotential for them to spoil the movie, and I think there are certainlytrailers that basically tell you most of what's going to happen in the movieand often contain a lot of the best scenes, especially when it's a comedy.Sometimes, if it's not a good comedy, they somehow managed to stuff be, orninety percent of the good jokes into the trailer, but in trailers wasessential part of the appeal of going to the cinema throughout most of mylife in resent years, I become very tired of them because you go on forever.Twenty five minutes is that's about riht, and I've often seen the traileralready, because now you can get it on the Internet, but I always enjoytrailers as an art form in itself are their own particular type of shortfilms, and I really enjoy trailers also that do something more than just try tosummarize the movie and there's some glassics in this junk. I think of theorigial trailer for Clockwork Orange, a trailer for the social network and,oddly enough, it's forgotten among most people, but the really mediocre, HarHeist movie gone in sixty seconds. We go back and look at the trailer. It wasconsidered quite revolutionary e said. Yes, it can spoil the movie and no onelikes that it is like a job being on the same defense of trailers, which isthat songtailers can be absolutely fantastic in their own right. I meanI'm not sure if this is embarrassedng o not to admit, but I very often revesetbest Anderson trailers, because they just highlight so many of the detailsOm. Why I love those filds at there. Huust really fun experiences in theirown right. It's also some really fantastictrailers that are just denuinely inspired, even he te Ditional mate thatwas never used in the fields. Ah, as I'm not sure if you guys have seen realized by Abert Brooks, but the trailer isessentially the same character. Try to pretend thits so real that it a treedan is essentially just playing around in Reati glasses and it looksabsolutely terrible. It's not use for film is Justin talking about howfantastic the film it in the stame of noxious character and it works soincredibly, incredibly. Well, I never looked at traitors. This way, Ihave to say so. Hich was interesting. I never actually heard someone talkingabout how they like Traider, so it was interesting. Youre hearing your Yuadamand Chris Tok talk about them. This way I was wondering because the films youmentioned, I think, ider mentioned the Grocork Orange Gon sixty seconds. I waswondering if it has something to do with when the film was released. MaybeOder traiders were welldone in a different way and nowadays trater aregone in a very show. It all way. Let' say and all the traders were more me, maybe better done. Theyve left more out of it that didn'treally cut togeter, that many things that would usually focus on somecharacters and some early scenes or something that was romatic and oftenwith a really really frustrating and dull narrate there. Giving you someidea of why it was also Spensh, for while you had to see it, but that'spretty much it, they were theyethey wer denting, like themones with Yo. Today,F course it depends Liv it about mier. Ever talking about to do', have toturnin their secalthe entire podcast, a...

...he all about trailers. Teyl be reallyfun to finally move on to addamhialymit about how she feels about spoilers. Iam not a fan of spoilers, not at all. Spoiler, ultimately provides theopportunity to destroy the narrative tension in the movie, and there aremovies that can survive that there are some movies that don't hurt by that atall some movies, where the narrative might be beside the point or maybe notas important a spoiler, might not ruin every movie, but has the potential toruin a lot of movies. I think a great way of evaluating a spoiler is to sortof talk about history movies, we's, based on history, that's widely known,or at least known, particularly to you. These are movies that I very much enjoyI'm a big kind of a history movie Genra. When I see them, I always joke you knowI go see a history movie and then I look with my brother about he says tome. If you think Pearl Harbor and I said well, I really like it and I kindof felt like I knew it was going to happen the whole time. You know thewhole first of the movie. I had this weird suspicion that Japanese weregoing to attack. I don't know why that was a joke, but this is something thatthe history genre suffers from. The question is: Even if you know theoutcome of Pearl Harper, can you enjoy the narrative that's presented withinthe movie that leads up to that point. I think some ways in a spoiler from amovie forces you to confront how interesting, enjoyable or compelling amovie is. If the narrative is known Nwhen, the narrative is known, we kindof enjoy the movie because elements not ssociated with the narrative you canenjoy it for the performance for the dialogue for music for camera work, soon so forth, evertheless I think most movies suffer from being spoiled andcertainly if the spoiler goes as far as eigh clock twest and it can reallydetract from the movie going experience. Think that's a interesting point aboutH, historical films, though, in that case, part of the excitement or part oflike the build up is suppose, is how they doll deal with x event or how theywill present X. Historical figure that you mayor may not have some impressionabout leting me really interesting ind. It's all right think maybe even abetter example is downfall. The the Bruno guns movie about Hitler's finaldays, ae movie, where everyone knows the outcome, but the peal of the movieis really Bruno Gon''s performance and his depiction of Hitlerin. His finaldays, SI think is an incredible performance. So that's an example ofwhere everyone knows the outcome, but I think the movie really stands up. I remind the OFOF, the final sceme ofblack gather as well black, a going Ford, which I'm not going to spoil forthe people haven't seen it yet, but it has a fun an somewhat sad pan aboutwhat daint it is and what they believe is going to happen on this date. And ofcourse, we also have some films that Gan specifically from Reain the MEM,like that's seaking, in the best picture, with Er collecat, where youknow they pa to the name of the both tat. It's titanic or the opening tevend a fair where people arehaving a party at thepan to deside that Seston Waserloo. So there are so waysto also play off historical event, so that you know what is coming, and it'spart of the story this to move on and to include myself in this. I think thatI do have some problems with boilers and the narrative is usual, not what ismost important for me, but especially if there's a twist it can genou in theRoomin the part of the experience, because if you do not know the twist ordespoiling question, you will actually be able to have two fundamentallydifferent experiences. At least, if it's done well, you will get the firstexperience the very first time you see it and you have that ristnal reactionto seeing events. You have not expected. You see the plot Entaro iturn on hitshead and you may, if done incredible, well sit there and tock try tounderstand how this happened, the logic leading up to it and then on yoursecond viewing. You will actually be able to going in be able to trace allof the clues that leads up the reveal and both of those are essentially firsttime experiences. So that's what's really lost when you boil a film thisway. This is essentially like what happens in six cents. Whic obviouslywas spoiled to me. I think every single person in the world knows that BruceWillis was that that Higer, that the time and going in then you could seeall of the really really obvious clues. You were wondering whether it would berevealed, and you were wondering how it would be revealed, and so murch lookedso obvious and so much fealth so flat, and it was actually only thene until myrewoth of it than I gained more respect...

...for it, because then I had essentially it would be the TURDviewing. In that sense, like I had, the experience of seeing was what happenefor myself and then I could judge hit more in terms of how it was made, howit was done without Spayn, more attention to how the twist we developit's interesting to hear you mention the six sense, because that's a filmthat I have actually checkd that I've actually watched it four times. Nowthat found that the more and more I watch it, the worse it actually gets,and the POL actually makes no sense in a number of key scenes, and you knowthat he's dead when you know that nobody else can communicate with him,yeah loof, it doesn't add O and I've kept rewatching it. I guess you knowfour times and Ond twenty years, because people loore at saying, Oh, youknow, go bout to give another shot again, but now I just g t this farsdown further and further in my esteem. No, I can definitely see that. I thinkthen poor times you ill see it. The more you will start thinking abouteverything in between as well is in what happens after that one shot ends.How was this set up actually logical that how much this person actully seeand how come he was living with his wife for to many months as a ghost,without realizing that she never ever never spoke to him. It has stuff about how yea Bruce Willisis getting by, without realizing as a ghoest there's. Also, some of the stuffwhich Holey Joe Osmond says them, which is just ridiculous. He says things likeI got this secret or something like this. Please don't tell anyone and YeahOsman shurely knows that he is a ghost and therefor he's got no ability totell anone. So I have that line in there and then you know set it up tomake it more interesting. For a first time viewer- and I know what you'resaying that the more times you watch if you're, going to pick up more and morethings that don't work. But then you look at the Ar bestof films thet ar bigtwists in the like, Vertigo or scream, especially with scream. I can watchthat vaudable times. I think up to six ore, more viewings and knowing thetwist knowing who goes paces, it just gets better and better each times. Isee all the different so hens that weres craven is put in there to show uswho the killers are with out it being obvious to a first time viewer. I thinkyou're perfectly right there, so that the very best films does get better.The more and more times you see it because you pick all of the additionaldetails that Yit didn't see. This is what I mentioned in terms of last year.Marr about to is that every single time you see it, you pick up a newinterpretation and new littl detail, AE little line. That means something elseand hey can change the entireting and it's similar and Verti Al to and thatthere's always so many different things to consider, and so many more things totake a board. Since Saul mentioned the angle of Iguess you could call watchability specifically with regard to a moviethat might have a twist or something really unexpected. I think there arecases where it can be a benefit. So one of the appeals is when you're watchinga movie with a twist for the second or third or fourth time is you can sort oflook for clues along the way that Hint Adit, which is what I think a lot ofpeople done over the past week, rewatching the time game, the potentialdrawback for any rewatching? Experience, though, is that you also start poticingthose plotholes that it be weren't very obvious there. The First Time You sawit sind. I would agree with that, and I think it would explain why a lot offilms that only realy on the final twist or the ending get wellgets worseand worse after Arewatch, because they only have one part of the film that youreally really worked on and the rest was just it. Sometimes it feels likethe rest would just made to be there just to pass the time while we get tothe final ten fifteen minutes that trould Oo blrow everyone's mind andwhen Ou weach a film for the first time. Usually you remember Moskis beginningand the ending some port in to middle and, if sending brows you away with theTwitt, for example, it's very easy for you to be like Whati, well that thatwas actually a great film, but when you rewatch it and stop looking at it morejerefully and m more details, you start noticing. In some cases you startnoticing details that doesn't doesn't add up, as I was mentiondinto six tentsfor example, or just since that are well unneeded or not very interesting,and when you know the final scene- and you know what' s, the ending is somefilms seem very bland and anoriginal and very very average. I think it is described the entirecareer AMA TA on there I don't know, I ave ontly, seen the sixsents from him so yeah. I don't really know about the rest of this Phimography,but I guess the six sense was I knew. Obviously I knew the ending when Ifirst when I first watched it et, was...

...still o fun experience. Well, I think I watched it a few years,Vac t when, in the beginning that say of my movie watching journey, so I wasa little bit more impressed by what I was watching like then I was lessblasded and nowadays, let's say so- I I don't know but resitis foography, butat least for the six cense yeah on the first viewing. When you don't know muchabout films, as I did it was. It was a fun experience, an like of ehige debemit siamnas career,a umbrakblle is actually a getting in the great film which words evenThoughin the twist, but obviously, as his career becamemore and more extreme, it really did start to feel like it was all buildingup that one big twist and everybody hew it thoroughly on unbreakable being areally good film Ha's got a twist in it, but I've seen it two or three times,and it really gets me each time. There's really some real strongemotions in there between father and son and Yeh, it's very howful, film andyeah as Shiman went long. I think some of his other films did get to Bob Downther twist, but he had a really good twist. One recently called the visitabout these children going to visit their grandparents house and theirgrandparents are acting really strangely, and it's unsettling them andyou're not quite sure why it first and there is a twist in there and when Iwatch hit for the second time I knew the twist going in and I'l still verycaptivated by it. I thought it was a really thoroughly compelling film. Verysurprisingly, considering how lame a lot of M knit scheimellens films havebeen over the years. I also like to give a shout out to h plate which Icant ven enjoy. It was terribly well done, and what we could considerit withther was was actually quite fun. I like split also, I thought there wasvery well done really great performance by on your tailor. Joy In there alsoour glass, the ARSPITOF, which actually brings umbreakable and split together,is a really good film, with a really fun Camio by m night Shomalan, whichreferences his cameo appearance in unbreakable. I think there's alseninteresting bet, I think, there's also a bit of a conflict or a bit of adifference between knowing spoilers in terms of what happens in the plot andknowing spoilers that are no actual twist like. If we look at differencebetween say the six sense I tellme least wean every single person more orless knows how Kelman Louis ends, but that just hightens anticipation asopposiblee way of Gourny there. What happens there but noinnatural twist,will actually change tentiger way. Tyo! Look at the film it's interesting thatyou mentione a Thelmein Louis there Chris, because for me that's a film where I knew theending I've known it for years. It's just one that seems to be discussedmentioned quite frequently, so iad always put off watching it, and Iactually watched it for the first time, maybe two or three months ago. So it'sa strange experience when you watch a film and you've already got the idea inthe back of your head. That knowledge of you know what's going to happen inthe end and to me that the film didn't really grab me anyway. So it wasn'treally a huge disappointment that I knew what happens at the end, but it isstrange watching a film for the first time when you already know. What'sgoing to happen, it kills a lot of the excitement and you'l forever readingbetween the lines, because you know how it's going to end. I thought I justmentioned with them on Louis, like Tom, its a film that I'd put off sying for anumber of years, because I new the ending, I actually was reallyinteresting going into it. Now that ending, like Chris said it guest justgives hat inevitability for their journey that you know this is going tohappen to Hem. This is going to be a result batter what happens, and Ithought I was really interesting in playing along seeing what the endresult was going to be and knowing that going in sort of like the ending toplanet of the Apes, Beeng spoied by the simpsons, so anybody's gring t watchingthe simpsons, and I was the ending to that- and it was just really great forme when I watch plan of the apes also for the first time, Knowin the endingbeing one step ahead of the child, Anastin character, sort of knowingwhat's going to happen at the end of it before he does. I Love Planet. Theaposole, it's one of my favorite films and I was looking ough to watch itwithout knowing the end, so I enjoyed it as it was meant to be, and you knowit blew me away. I just want to point out the spoiler for planet. The EIGTwas actually printed on the covert of the films DVD in a certain version,which I just think is a terrible piece of work that you know the peopleresponsible for putting together DVD cover would pout the ending of the filmon the cover. Yeah, that's pretty hilarious, so theyput the our spoiler on there. But I guess, if the film's consiered to bethat iconic, maybe there was an...

...assumption that people already knew it.I think that's pretty much it it peaks to just how well known thatspoiler is, as as into the makers of this cover is Ciln't. Imagine thatanyone didn't know the end another another good example ofeveryone. Knowing the end. Nowadays we be titanic when you think of Titanic.Well, obviously, it's based on a true story, so you know what you know what'shappening at the end based on the history, but you don't know what happens tothetwoain characters. I forgot the name in underfilms, toot, the character, pay,Byyou, loing, Hado, Djpou and Ja twinsler and well, when you think aboutthe film one of the scenes. You have in mind this toward the end Whenh. She ison this wood thing and do caciis in the water.So I guess it's will be the same. We all know that you know he dies to Taver,let's say even though e don't science experiment showed later on that hecould have easily got on that and they could have book survived what wouldhave been o less cromantic ending. Obviously, but technicate was possible,so yeah. I think it's ttalso shows an interesting thing that some the arescoiders because of the ending and supported because of some twist, forexample Tel man. Louis. It's not vhere. It's not that much of a twist, it'smore GNOYING, the ending on a film like to six cents, for example. It's theimportant thing is knowing Tho twist, so I think it's important to make thisdistincting between the two type of films and spoiled and, of course, the ending there in thelargic deploy. There is just debated by every single person, thats well Tis,because that drift would clearly has enough room for both of them, leadingto thedates on thes Israols, just a complete ansole who wants that to dielike why didn't te take turns why? Why why and then just like there's so manyvideos going into the lagic of that, so many parodies and it's sa Ta's wos,that's notly, wat that s everybody knows about at this point, Oll time I watched Tatanic, I had thisweird sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach as suppose to all have thatseeking feeling, especially divorce. The end talking about films that arejust so well known that everybody knows the key, spoiler or key twist actually have one memory of whating psycho shins this, but I wasforcing Yit in college, can wit dam. You know an er on the forium and everysingle person was worching it, and it was really clear that a lot of thepeople theing, it didn't actually know the twist. So somehow the two twists,because there are two major twists in that film or or want twist, I onemasure event that was really interesting to see and see them andactually enjoy it as if they were watching it in thesixties and it did Gan enjoy it with a film like psycho, if HEU said,there's two twists in there, but if geneitly disappears in the first half fan hour or the first half of the film in an extra regard that as a twist toNan, I think it's nearest thing thing to conser. I think it's one of the biggest shocksin cinema history, really that you set up a character as the protagonist andthen khill her off well before the first half is over and at's. I don'tthink that was ever really experienced before, especially since it wasrelatively well known us, everybody had expectation of what that FEM Wolti. Infact, it's kind of like your rantional protestedown in that you're watchingone film and it turns into something Completeo differen. The fact is, thisis a Stong Rub: Bending Movement whereyou go from watching what youthink is essentially a late film or or a triller about a woman has tolln moneyinto a horror film and with the removal of that character is just such tanincredible. You need thing to happen, athat's a good point. It reminds me ofthe Umisdirection also at the beginning of frenzy, but I don't think it spoilsit too much, but we spend about the first twenty minutes. Maybe followingUS one character, we expect to be the killer until Hitchwhot Paus aride fromout from under ou legs, and no it's actually not him. It's anothercharacter that he ovhas been following around. I think it's very important that webring ot psycho when we're discussing spoilers, because I love this AlfraChitchcock himself went out of his way to make sure that cinema goasexperienced his film as intended. Now, before psycho came out, it was quitecommon practice for people to enter a...

...cinema screen halfway through a filmwatch, the end in the film and then stay around for the next show ind tocatch the beginning, Alfred Hitchcock sent out messages to all the cinemas tomake sure that people were forbidden from entering the cinema after the filmhad started. I've got this little marting clip that ehe sent out to thecinemers just going to read of it out, because I think it's great, he says itis required that you see psycho from the very beginning. Surely you do nothave your meat course after your dessert at dinner, you will thereforeunderstand why we are so insistent that you enjoy psycho from start to finishexactly as we intended that it be served. We won't allow you to CheatYourself. Every theatr manager everywhere has been instructed to admitno one. After the start of each performance of psycho, we said no one,not even the manager's brother, the president of the United States or theQueen of England, God blesset think it's important to ve. That tacticthat hitchcook use not just though, as an attempt by a director to head hisaudience, see his movie in its complete form rather than as a jointed. Second,half first type experience is also a publicity tatic, at least that's Y. myhistorical understanding of that moment was trying to build up a mystaque ofthe movie, and it's interesting to note that Harmax did the exact same thingmore than thirty years later, with the crime game, they both hitch cock withpsycho and Mirromax, with the crying game publicized to audiences. Thisinstruction, don't spoil movie, Don't reveal the secret and I'm sure bothparties very much did not want the secret to be spoiled. It was also apublicity campaign to build up a certain mistake around those movies. I've just looked it up and it'sactually interesting with psycho the original tag line. FRORD was don't giveway the ending it's the only one we have. Oh, that's actually, at apromotional level already, the filmmakers are sang where I is going tobe a twistto Carmer on other thing about psychothos intesting is that itdoes have these two twist, which means that people may know one of the thingsthat Capinh in the film, but not the other. I the most famous, is the murderSene, where an unknown assailant, obviously hidden in shadow tabs me inin the shower and blood tircles into the train. It's a comment. Everybodyhas that image and, of course the simzons did. It Simpson seems to Real,like Tho Sport cots. However, there is of course, the actual twist, which isboth disturbing shocking and just as any good twist changes tentire way weperceive the filmor at least perceive the main character of Norman Bate,which is, of course, that his mother is dead and that he is acting out thecrimes as her. He believes it is both himself and his mother is wichesbetween them, and you have that inredible timal scene of him sitting atthe polic station talking to himself. One voice is own one voice's mother,and it is so anerving to see and taking me back to the screening at college,with probably fifty or so other students, the majority which had neveris en psycho. You can hear the whispering to each other and simplybeing completely dune at this ending. I think the ending of Cicho is just aseffective when you know that it's coming. I recently had the privilege ofwatching Syco with a live orchestra, and that was a brilliant experience and,as Chris mentioned, with his experience of it, it's great that you can tellthose around you who are Newto Sycho and have managed to avoid finding outhow it ends, because you can see the genuine reactions that people have tosuch a startland experience and watching it in a theater with liveorchestrammus. A lot to the experience, even though you know already knows thefilm and already knows the ending, definitely claim. If I could watch allfilms with a live orchestra. I would I've only seen a few lirket in thattime, but you know if it's something that, as a film find any listenershaven't done, I would highly recommend it whether it's a film you love or oneyou've, not seen watching ha film of a Labr Orchestra really add to lot theexperience. But I gether the experience the people who wark sypof the veryfirst time without knowing at least one...

...of the major foilers lay to that filmand Wat it all or alwos. All of us talked about at the very beginningabout how we trie to padice. Most of us try to avoid trailers before going intofilms. We don't know too much about them. Some of us even aboinding,reading about films in its entirety and trusting the director so that the filmin no way is spoiled an. We can go into it with a completely blind, slain andexperiencat, as it was intended or dis that the way films or actually intendedor some film set up in Suca way that we should have read upon it or should knowsomething about it. Before going in water, prols and calms of going into afilm line, I think most people are going to speak on the proside of goinginto a film blind, so I'm just going to take a chance to mention some of theconsigns. I think that there are occasions we're going into a film blindcan hurt you, and I think, especially the first time I saw mull Holland drive.I was a eighteen year old college freshman and I had not seen any DavidLynch movie before and I decide to watch mhalland drive actually with agirl. I was interested in which ended up being a mistake for numerous reasons. It didn't help me with her and I had noclue what the movie was all about. I had no idea what to expect from Lynch.I think that was an example of where bit head. Even just you know a short warning of what to expect fromLynch Writta Review. I might have been better prepared to UN. Maybe not choosethis as the movie. I want to see what this girl is interested in, even if Iwas going to see it at least understand what the heck was going on. I thinkit's interesting question whether we should read about film people watchingit or not. I think Adam mentioned an interesting point by mantioning arothedrive, because it's a film that well led IDs for the sake of the argument,lhet's cool it experimental and I think that for some posiss type of film forExperimental Films, Ndin General, it's it could be a good idea to first readabout it to try to understand. Well, not only what the film is about, buteverything that's surrounding the film, maybe Ou, understand what the cotes ofthe Genera ours Oue film, Major, who toukit tomake the film the techniques that are used to make this type of films,because theyr films that usually people are not used to see, but a quite right, clan wit, which isthat a lot of the times and People Watch certain films, even thiis, noteven necessarily about going into a film bline terms of pot but going intoa film blind in terms of what theirector is non for. What taShalreston for even Wot the culture is known. For I mean there are a lot ofpeople who, for INSANCE, will watch Japanese or Iranian films withoutrealizing, for instance, that they are protesting or in Som Ma Qitiquging asasiety that they are in such asveses Olsuit or Arus. When many of theclassic Campanese fild makers, critiqueing women's Rollin society andmany of the modern Iranian fielmakers doing exactly the same and Sim Tler interms of changer norms that are actually madg toward it. You might notactually realize that the film is being incredibly clever if you don't havecertain experiences with that Chenra or wi that culture with that team with thehistory before the absolutely. I think a lot of filmmakers like to putmessages Inter films, I think artist in general, a I've always tried to putforwards or Itica or associator messages in their art form. So it'sNormar that film mator. Does it as well, so yeah definitely understanding yourhe context in which a film is made understanding how t society work andtrying to understand wby. What they want to call out could always be goodidea for watching films. I think when you've watched so many films, itbecomes hard and harder to find films that have the power to start or yousurprise. You Al or shock you in such a way with the twists, and that, for me,is one of the main reasons why I avoid spoilers and reading about films beforeand because I'm always seeking that reaction from a film one thing that Ilove about film festivals is going in blind and just trusting the the filmsare on the slate for a reason, and I love sitting in the cineme having noidea of what I'm about to watch, but just going along with a ride, because Iknow it's Jean re at a Lov for or by a filmmaker that a I love but, conversely,wants to have seen a film. I absolutely...

...love delving back into the reviews thatpeople have written about it. I'll even goes far as to watch the trailers aswell, and always curious about that. And I love a good reason to check outthe year. IMDV Trivia section as well, because Ere's always interestinginformation in ther, and I think my eversion to spoilers is also greatlyinfluenced my writing style. When I review films, because I always try togive away as little as possible. But I also enjoy alluding to events withoutbeing too obvious o just both the ideal goal. For me, when writing reviews isfor whoever reads them to be able to dicet the nuances of my subtle hintsabout pot spoilers, once they've seen the film and question, but not to giveaway anything if they haven't seen the film. I think that's a great point that Ialso try to do more or less the same. In fact, if I'm right to talk about thefilm, I try to involve the kind of feelings equated in Yo, the kind ofatmost Greatwhal building or the kind of things ecause sheive rater anactually talk about specific plot pots, because that can obviously, in somecases, whoad experience for some people. It's an interesting question aboutwhether there are some films that we should enter into a completely blindthings like Maholland drivyou should know it's an other David Lynch filmslike beforehand, perhaps but that's still, narrative cinema. I think you'more along something like Corpus. Colossan ther was actually the firstMichael Snow film that I ever saw going into that other than nowing. There wasan experimental film, I knew absolutely nothing about it and it was mindlineFlo because I don't know what to expect wor fom Wa so was playing with filmform, hawing different images over other images, other different effects.It was a really interesting experience, so I'd say most films, even on the moreexperimental signless you're taking alone for a first date, which want tobe a romantic date, thet's just something you're watching for yourself.I think most films better left on sport and going into completely line Thas.It's a historical film I found was some historical films or films that are saida bit in the past. Dor makers assume a little bit of general knowledge, whichyou may I may not have so sometimess found with certain films. I've neededto stop and look up and discover a bit more about what was going on at thetime to fully grasp was actually happening in the story. I thought Imight also mention with reviews, because I write quite a few reviews,also a like Tom. At Light Chris, I try and avoid putting clot spoilers inthere. I do try and also yeah allude to things that are goenglind an my generalimpesson. I might talk about. Certain plot turns to come, but I try and avoidsaying that word twist, because is some people as soon as you say, plot twistthey got your Ol to suport the film. For me, I think some films, it is really dod,not go into blind or films that in some sort of way try to show how somethinghappened or how Om atmosphere. That was around the specific time without openlysaying something but o the most obvious case, of course, would be MichaelHannikes by Riben. If you don't realize that they're Aluitin to rise a Pipler,you will maybe struggle a little bit with that film. There's, there's alsofilms that are cateringto historical events that maybe certain viewers wone.No, for instance, there is a really popular really famous Tim from Spaincalled buttefies Tom, which takes place. I think a'R ound the years one thousandnine hundred and tirty five on and nine tded thirty six in Spain and knowingthose years in obviously know what's going to happen and what's going to endup ut if Yot don't know Spanish history that well and IU follow this Lo Kitheround, this peaceful town and he shears. Some people talk about certainpolitical events. You might have no idea whas going to happen, butobviously knowing what will happen orwit has to happen just within a fewmonths is essential to really get a full experience out of that film, andthere are man, othe films like that, which just set their storing in haspecific time, but then assume that you will know either because they were madespecific in that time. This was specifically relevant or because itssaid in a country where everyone will know their own history is not reallynecessarily expecting audiences to not be aware of this unteresting films that have come tomind on the whole idea of knowing history before going into them. Theequitin Tarentinos inglorious bastards and once upon a time in Hollywood andactually watched the ladder with some people who were not sure exactly whathappened to Sharon Tay, which hads them Interetan discussions afterwards, asfilms really benefit. If you know the historical to contect Aso, somethinglike amadayis is really interesting, because I've talked to a lot of peoplewho have watched the film and sort of gone reacto like or you know, that'swhat Motat was like as the films,...

...actually, the SE xaderat portraitthrough the mind of a madman and if you don't sort of know what mots that wasreally like, going into Amedaus sort of come away with a false historicalperception of it, and it also makes the film less dynamic if you're watchin theumber days going Al this completely factual Roe than going or were justseeing these delusions here, and these exaggerate potrayals in his mind, areally geat point as well, and this also Tis O imit shongerexpectations. There are certain films that will not necessarily tell youexactly what Shanga comventions they will be playing for exactly michatmosphere to going for. At the very beginning, in which case you might besay, astestting the first five ten fifty minutes wrongly, and this mayeither be a urprise o Richcato Bos perfectly or it may be the case thatall the promotional material trailers, et Cetera, were expected to h, set upexpectations of the film so well that it didn't have to say it out loud. Togive this one additional example of a film that Ive noticed that some peoplehad a problem with going into blind, and that is the recent field transitwhich its, I believe, Chrich Christian padsols latest fiany- might have donesomething for this year, but it was release two thousand and eighteen, andthis is not a spoiler. This is something that essentially, everyoneshould know, but if you do not realize that this film is imagining the nutsthe occupation of framce but seit in the present day, you may struggle a bit,especially at the beginning. I think myself and most of the peoplegoing in knew that simply from rerviews what they were saying about the film UN.I have no idea how I would have reacted to the early setup if I didn't knowthat this is what was taking place and especially, if we didn't know theadditional information that this is simply atrate vattation from books setin the firs fortisit, no real alterations, except for the clothesthat Burns etcee, and it just makes it so much more satisfying knowing theselittle trees, because you know Youre, essentially participating in a slowbrooding, taught experience of placing yourself in situation where this isreality N. Today, how would you react today and it's just such an interesting andbeautiful experience? Knowing that I mean it's, just betebo is beautifullyvague. It's like a tragic dream and if I had to first realize that this is whati was doinglike I'm, not sure how I would have reacted if you watch a lot of pets onfilms, Hes, the rector who's inredibly incredibly good at creating theminimalist trillers is really good at building atmosphere, but the actualplots of them. What is actually communicating often feels very tin, butin this film he combines no I's masterful man of the camera and ofbuilding atmosphere with the really interesting philosophical toticexperiment. Hat just makes it one two thousand and eighteen greatest filmsand moving out to our final topic in todays podcast, three of my co Houthave watched e crying game Tom, knowing the spoiler going in some simplyknowing that there was a twist of some kind and I'm really excited to hearthem talk a little bit about their experiences. Here. I want to go back to something Saulsaid earlier about how going e twist is in a movie, can itself be a spoiler,and this is something I strongly strongly agree with. I saw the cryinggame back in two thousand and six I've been warned several people, my mother,especially that there was a surprise in the movie that there was a twist. Ishould keep my eyes open for the twist. I like a move, a good movie with thetwist. I was very unsatisfied with theexperience as a result spend the entire movie waiting for the twist and when itcame to the point, where twist actually happened, when the ender identity of Dewas revealed didn't recognize, it was the twist a was to the twist wasincluded. I was thinking something along the lines of fight club or theusual suspects here. Everything we have seen up to that point is revealed insome sense to be a lie. I didn't think revelation that dill was a transwomanwas a twist so up until the last moments of the movie, I was stillwatching expecting a twist APP and was...

...watching this shoot out at the end withthe IRA. Thinking is this the twist. I think it truly did win the movie for me,ow. I saw this in two thousand and six, not one was released in one thousandnine hundred and ninety two O onethousand nine hundred and Nigety two.I was seven years old. I think, maybe, if I' EEN, one thousand nine hundredand ninety two would have been a twist for me- would have been a surprise. Ithink I probably would have just been slightly confused. I guess that thewhole IIDEA of isgender identity, queer identity, was differently accepted intwo thousand N ix t one thousand nine hundred and ninety two and then I'm alittle disappointed. I Guess Fo, one thousand nine hundred ndninety twoaudiences doing this is such a shocking moment. TRANSGENDERISM had been a longestablished troke in American movies. I think it's more a product of thatmermax publicity campaign that I mentioned earlier, rather than actualsurprise at the movie. The time I saw in two thousand and six, I which pointI was twenty two years old, he didn't seem very surprising- The want topretend O'm sim this incredibly cosmopolitan person who just knew abouttransgenderism. I just don't think didn think at that time that that was SUC,uch usprizing test at Oh someone, we thought was a woman was in fact atranswoman. This big reveal you know, dill has a penis should not be tooshocking. Fifty percent of us do so that really there really ruinedmovie for me ing on tender hooks the entire time expecting this twist tooccur. It's interesting that Adam mentionsthat the revelation, perhaps shouldn't beshocking for an audience in one thousand, nine hundred and ninety two,and because I was actually watching an interview with some of the crassmembers in the directors yesterday of the crying game, and they explainedthat it was an incredibly difficult film to secure finance for not just because of the genderimplications, but also due to the interracial relationship and obviouslywould like to think that we live in forward drinking world and society.Where stories like this, you knowwere emadt quite easily, but there was a lotof difficulties at the time and another concern that the filmmakers had wasthat the press would divolge the big twist and that was a great consume whenthey were going in and when they actually got greenlet to meet theproject. This thought it was really interestingthat Adam didn't know that the twist was that there was a woman, becausethat's something that I'd known about since yes, as long as I'd been intocinema, a Davidson got an Oscar nomination for best supporting actorand s the peole. I talked on the ID message. Ward said, the OSCAnominations actually ruined the film for them because they knew at thatpoint. CENMAL JENATALION was trans. I watched the crain game last nightItualy so is UST npoashing my mind when we were preparing this episode offow days back we were talking about, filmswe would mention, and I don'tremember w told the first about the criing game. Ididn't knew a Hou. There was some kind of twist a crying game. I knew about it.I didn't knew ATHEU, they was a twistin. So was actually very surprised that Ididn't new because, according to Thim, it's one of the most famous twist inCNIIS. True- and I started thinking about it becauseI knew I would watch it for this podcast and I studied thinking and bewell since I'm Goinna proably defend te point that scoilers are not thatimportant for me. Maybe I should just Sek out what the twist is. What theending is, what spoil is and see how my cewing experiment would be changed byknowing that and what soldid is that he actually brought the twist hiding itunder spoier tags in the chat, and it was like were open. It a joon risk, and I think it took me about for fouror five minutes before I just gave up and looked under those spoiler tages. Idon't know if it was intentional or not. I think it was, but he wrote itbackward to spoiled backward. He said that, instead of saying that you knowthere is a woman that turned out to be a transcender. He said that one of theguy is actually a woman, and so I went into the film thinking that it wasaccuus a twist, and so I spent my first maybe fourty. First minutes of the filmthinking that Turgus a character was actually a woman before so I startedlooking for cruise and I actually even found some elements that well.According to me, W D could inpreciate that he was actually a woman and wellit's later on when he met Jo e girl, and then I started understanding and belike well yea prove Sol proverly, just yeah, Miss Lidney and well, you told mea wrong wrospoitet, that's absolutely...

...hilarious! CLEM! I had wrote itbackward to even think about it and Itiste ID AL thes, Clus wing to otherSteven re character. Being a woman. There wasn't intentional you, youreally worted backward without thinking about it, yeah! No, I did writet back until it'sfunny, so I wonder if giving the wrong spoiler an also toys one's expectationsof a film oexaerareally hilarious story ofsomeone that Berd that at the end of siting cane, we told what Rose Budreferred to and this person was genently convinced that Rosebun was theperson who had chilled cane and went to the hire film expecting EA ther would have been a great ending.Actually Jane was actually khilled by Rosebord. That would have been amazing,a yeah, well, okay, going back on thecrying Gen. Now the family itself didn't do much for me. I would have tosay I think overall Jus Storis, not that original. I think it feels likeyou know: We've seen it before. You know two soldiers talking to each other,one of them passed away and the other one goes to the girlfriend of the TADsoldier and Starte lowf relationship. I think the interesting part wasobviously well qualitycor context that the film was made in which I am notfamiliar with that al. So I want talk about that. The film was nicely nicelyshot Atso. It was interesting. The contrast between the first fortyminutes of the film with Fors, winticure and Fergus, and the rest ofthe film etentually, sometimes feel feels Nighe, two different film, thefirst one being more very war, film team and the second one. Being thismore romantic film sort of it was a SSO. It was interesting to see that thefilmmaker was able to make two films in one, let's say wot. I shows that why yeas talent and is agle to do more than one type of film yeah, as I said before, knowing thetwist didn't really change my diewing expectation. I think that, even if Ididn't know, I would have been well surprised what Yo twist is, but I don'tthink it would have made my Voni experience any little. I sat down for first time last nightwatched the crying game knowing the twist. I knew that going into the filmwhat I was not I was surprised about. What was not prepared for was how earlyon its revealed is not revealed super early into the movie, but it's revealedout and actually chapter my dbd one hour and one minute into the film. Soforty five minutes left to go actually think most of the second half of thefilm was actually about the ramifications of the twist, and Ithought it actually turned like Clem Seid be comeas a romance film, O oactually became a really sweet, love story, it's about the MSTEVEN recharacter, Fergus or Jimmy whatever you want to fer him. Actually, learning tolove deal for who deal is is rather than just who he thinks till is. Ithought that was actually a really beautiful how it and around like thatand yeah there's sort of two stories in one. I really like the camarade o tobegin off with between the forest winicker character and the Stephenrecharacter thought that was really great, and I really like the way thatit and around I know it's sort of a bit familiar that you know it's going toRomat the a soldiers wifeor girlfriend who he knows from before, just adifferent ways that the arepot ivolved alone, with them around Richardsoncharacter, coming back sort of like the IRA past of the stepen re character, iscoming back to Pantom and he has to sort of grapple with that past, whilealso grappling with puying in love with deals. So is reassessing himself and gowel. Maybe dill doesn't need to have a Vigiana, maybe actually serias a womanand maybe actually really love del, so is reassessing who he is healso tryingto reassess who hes thought he is in the past, a kids going to this pointgoing on e. You know I'm not gay or whatever, which is why you have thataction when he first sees the Arpenis and he goes anevomits. But what'sreally important during that part of the film is that the camera stays withdill. It stays on dill's face while he's Gometing in the background, and herushes out of the room and the camera stays ondeal, doesn't follow a Jimmy orFergi out of the room, as he luns out start Talin about and yet from herpoint of view, and I thought that was really refreshing and reallyinteresting and just the way everything developed to long. It became about himreconciling who he is himself and what his nature is is one of the importantthings which forest witliker tells them towards the beginning of now. It's inmy nature and the whole course of the film was about the Stephen Re Character,reassessing his nature. Is he this ir a assassin? Is he this contractcor ofsorts? is He someone who's able to love...

...a transwoman and that' wheat sort ofprogresses along, and I just love the way the film sort of ends with them inthe prison and him recounting the firest witiker characters story till atthe end, I thought it was really. A beautiful film really gave a reallystrong message in terms of you know, love transcending what we cindly thinkit might be. I strongly agree with what sellsevaluation of the movie. Someone is already said: There's a lot going onhere, but at the heart of the movie. I think there are two themes on his it'sa love story also, it's a story of self discovery for stepen ree's character,and when the movie focuses on those two elements, I think it really prospers alot. I think the the Political Angle, the third act when the Irat comes backto the stories were things or to go a little off the rails, and I mentionedto this group earlier that I did not joy the movie as much on my rewatchyesterday, as I did when I originally saw it in two thousand and six. I think,maybe because I wasn't sitting around the whole movie expecting a twist- Iwas better able to evaluate, makes the movie good what Ar Expense and what areits weaknesses. I think the I R I thing is a little itof a weakness I just lose parts of it and with them around of Richardsoncharacter and the other character. I wasn't quite sure how that was goingdown, but they seem to really be interested in getting the Stevenrecharacter to go out and do that like hit on that man towards the end and theguy suddenly gets out of his coming. LIZES is not turning up and he goes andshoots the guy himself, which to me seemed a bit out of character, but thenwe don't really know the II actos that well o. That part is a little bit weak,but I think it's really important in the way that the past is catching up tohim much in a way like a history of violets from David Cronanburgers, alsoabout I' characters from the past. Coming back and trying to reconcile whoyou are. I think it's some point that element is in ther could have beendeveloped a little bit better but still thought it was an incredibly strongfilm and one that's really stayed in my mind in the twenty four hours sincewatching it. I really appreciate the crying game forthe shift and direction it takes after the first third of the story. As CLEMsaid, it starts out as one thing and then it completely flips the audienceesexpectations and a lot of films that do this. You could kind of compare it towhen Chris mentioned from dotal Dorn earlier in the podcast and how youmentioned that a start is one thing and then just goes into a completelydifferent film, and I always appreciate films like that. oneother thing that I wanted to mentionabout you, which I think was quite interesting to hear- was that Timemagazine critic Richard Callis. He gave away the film's twist in his reviewwith quite a subtle clue, so when he wrote his review, he worted out. So thefirst letter of each paragraph spelled out the phrase. She is a k and then, atthe end of his first paragraph uses the line only the meanest critic would givethat away at least initially. It's also I inceresting, because it is in one waythe opposite of what Evin is going for in that by the end of the film tepraycharacter, does actually accept he. As a woman. You know I thoroughly Great Chris. Ithink it's a really beautiful film and one that I, though, I'm alreadythinking Wel, maybe Ili undervalowing what it is, because I know the stuffwith the IRA terrorist is a bit under develop. I think in terms of how muchit matters to the plot lie, it's probably more important that weactually see that buddying romance between the two man. Harit doesactually really feel for what they're going through. It's also one thing I'ma little surprised. He didn't mention previously hichis that there'sobviously two secrets in this film one which is obviously quite extreme, quiteterrible, which is on the part of the Steven Ray character and that goinginto this promance. Originally, we are all attached to what will happen withthat revealed. It's actually a very good point Chris,because before I start, the podcast Mo was discussing it with Tom, saying thefilmminded a bit of like crimes and Mistemeanas and without spoiling outthat's a woody Allen. Film Te Two characters do something Very Highnessand one of Themis acquime one of Themsu MDERMENAR, but are they equally as badand the CRYIMG games sort of positions us that way and with ther shockrevealed? It initially seems at first that what deals doing it is the worstthing, whether it's actually not a shocking. The actual real bad thingabout is a secret that Jimmy or Fergus is keeping by not telling dill that heeffectively let deals y friend be killed or through his negligence, hegot hit by a truck or a van or a tank. Oh, you got that real big secret thereand when, if we're looking at it, that...

...should be the biggest secret in theplot. That should be the thing that we're most shocked about an thing thatwe should be most repeiled about not being revealed because one of thekeypieces of dialogue from deal is that thought he knew. She actually wasn't keeping any secretsin the first place, just wasn't explicitly staying it, whereas thewhole time and to towards the end the RSTEVEN Renn character is kiving. Somereally big serious secrets. I think it says a lot about film viewes if they'regoing in going walls an twist or whatever she's Goin to pean us, whereasthat's actually not the most shocking Yot thin, the most hocking thing attacyou. Can this bee romance with a person and still be pretty much lying to theirface about how they met them and what happened with her boyfriend for the twoof them ever met for the first time? But that's such a good point as all,because she believes that these two characters knew each other so well,mistining to an extent did and she believe that know e Forse, we tiner hadtold him everything about her. So the fact that sevrate characters act, Li sosurprised and repulse must come from a must come is an n extreme shock for Delas well. You know IIT's a very good point andjust to go back to what I was saying before. I think the film really doeswant us to sympathize with del. That said, before, we've got those shotswhere, when he's throwing up or whatever the cameras, all an Jei andfocusing I from her point of view- and I think we sort of do- have to look atthe film from her point of view and see that, if anyone's the victim here, sheis, it's not fergus he's the one who's been lying in deceptor from the firstplace and the films sort of about impurting that part of his naturebehind him, as sort of realizing his nature that he actually wants to do.Selfless things like lehimself go to Jael at the end, which is in his nature,going back to that whole Scorpion story which is still really restid hadting mymind. Just to conclude on the craying game. Ithink it's interesting film to talk about more in details, because it showstwo things we discussed in this podcast, the first thing being obviously thetwist and thespoiler, and the second thing was something that, as t wementioned about learning to contexttand of Histui surrounding a film beforewatching it. And I have to confess I didn't do that, butmaybe learning a bit more about transgender and the IRA in the s couldhave maybe incluence the way I watched the film maybe understand a bit more.Our society was like then, and our tolerant people were LE, say tortowards the transender people and also learn a bit more about the Irishconflitat GIAAA and every tinge rounding. It think we're there in the end of thepodcast now so maybe e three of you could just really quickly summarizeyour experience of knowing the twist and how it affected you, and if you learnedanything from watching, I feem almost specifically with his purpose in mind. To conclude this episode yeah. I thinkit was a very interesting atfirst hearing about trailors. As I said, I'mnot not a fan of of them, but it was the first time people told me that theyenjoy actually thik enjoyment other them so because they were interesting,hearing thesee auguments about trailers and why te can be good and Werl made insome circumstances, my vdew spoiters hasn't really changed after afterardthis. I still think that I'l try to avoid spoilers whenever I can, but ifsomeone spoil Ou film for me, I still think that there are a lot of things wecan look for in a film and the story is an important one, of course, but it'snot Primorgal to go ing completely blind storywide, actually really loved watching thecrine game. Knowing the twist ECAUSE, it was a real so much early one than Iwas expecting. That in itself was a get a bit of a twist already. What I reallyliked was being one step ahead of the Fergus or Jimmy character and knowingthings that he didn't know himself and like but tender systim at one point,there's something you should know about her and then he gets interrupted sothere's all these hints dropped along the way, and it was just veryinteresting watching Vergas Gettin over his head, that's sort of going on. Youknow when is it going to find out what it Goinno be like, but because it tookso long for him to find out it actually got to the point where it was able todevelop thea real, very real romantic feelings for her actually didn't thinkknowing the twist spot at all. I think, if anything, it anhanced the filmthat's the same with like any of my favorite films, like I said before,about the screen franchise and I just the first screen, but the summersequels also I really love going into...

...them and watching it and I watche themalmost on a yearly basis, because I love the fact that as Craven Drobs, all these hints of WHOGoto Paceis. So we know protty, said We'e going to spall screem a the startof the podcast, so billy and stew are the killers in the original, scream andrewatching it again and again. I pick up on all these subtle things. The waythey look the way they react to their friends talking. We actually can workat all those arthe killers, but the most fun thing about me about it. FunThing about the screen: Films for me: They're, trying to work out whocommitted what murder, because the biggest twist, probably about Screamis,it's not just one killer, buther's, actually, two people who ave ghost faceand that's really interesting, going back and watchnthing or was that billyis doing that murder is that stew and it just makes the film so much moredynamic, and I felt the same thing with the Chrine game. I thought this isreally dynamic film, because I'm actually this one step ahead of thecharacter. Just like I, as one step ahead of Childen Heston implanted ofthe apes, makes it really interesting. For me I'd, say yeah. I do terally try andavoid spoilers. I do try and read up as little as possible, but I think withany good film, knowing the twist, knowing everything to come onlyactually make it better appreciated chance to Rewatch the crimegame this week. I think that being it, while knowing the so called twist isthe fact that deal is a transwoman help me to focus on the strength of themovie which, to me is the acting, especially the performances of JDDavidson Steven Ryn horser whinnaker to me is the heart of the movie, and whilethe the twist is very important narratively to the movie, I don't thinkit's very important to enjoying the movieg. It's been fascinating to heareveryone's ideas and spoiles and how it makes them approach certain movies. Ifthere know information about them beforeand. I think that after thisdiscussion, I'm still going to be as sensitive as ever to spoil Ers I stilllike going in Blacnd, although I thought it was great to hear from clamthat, knowing a twist in a film isn't everything, because you've also got toappreciate the over elements that o come into play in the makeup of thefilm, the Cimatography, the performances succeptal. So perhaps whenI hear spoilers in the future, although I'm not going to be pleased it here inthem, I'll, perhaps be a little more open minded with the fact that thereare other things that t it can still appreciate from the film. I think that's a beautiful point. Ihope our listeners will take that to Hart when we next week will dive intothe entirety of Eric Romers, comedies and proverb cycle. I'm so excited about.Aa is just each of the six films in dreat detail, analyze them to the ball,and I really hope you'll be there to listen to it. So thank you, allforlistening and joing it again soon. You have been listening to talkinginpices official PODCAST OF ICM FORS COM.

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