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Episode 11 · 2 years ago

Please Do Disturb: The Most Disturbing Films We Have Seen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we will explore the idea of "Disturbing Cinema", and try to figure out exactly what disturbing even means.

To do this we will go on a personal journey exploring what disturbs us and why, and of course, to do this we will indeed list: The Most Disturbing Films We Have Ever Seen.

So, please do disturb, as Tom takes the host's chair to explore his love for disturbing cinema!

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone, I'm Tom and today we are going to explore an area of cinema that I feel very passionately about, the world of disturbing films. We are going to discuss why we are drawn to films that we never are intended to disturb the view it and consider whether the calibate of the filmmaking can have an impact on how disturbing a film can be. We're also going to discuss the films that have disturbed us the most and why they have had such a lasting impact on us. I'm doing today with my brilliant cohost, Adam clam and salt, and it would be great to hear each of your stances on disturbing films so the listeners can understand our individual perspectives on the subject. First of all, if you'd like to introduce yourself and just explain a few pips, fully seek out disturbing films and, if so, what is it that draws you to them? II. This is Adam from New York City. I'm known as blocker on the ICM form. I wouldn't call myself someone who really likes disturbing movies actually, but I'm very intrigued by the concept. Hey, this is come from France. Disturbing films are something I watch from time to time, even though it's not my favorite films by this is so from Australia, I do watch quite a few disturbing films as an e bit of horror fair and I think I like watching disturbing films mainly lot to feel something, because there's nothing worse than watching a movie and feeling absolutely nothing afterwards. I think that's a great point, all about watching a phil papers free to make you feel something. I personally love it when films are powerful enough to see an emotional reaction in me, whether it's, you know, happiness, sadness, disgusted or even to be disturbed. Think that films that are powerful enough to elicit an emotional response in the viewer usually far more enjoyable that the ones that aren't. And even they're being disturbed isn't necessarily an emotional response that people would associate with having a good time. I think when watching a film is good to have that kind of notion of being challenged with what you're watching. So we thought it'd be interesting to see if there's a clear difference between films that disturb us as opposed to those which are scary or upsetting or sat so light. Hear from everyone and see what your thoughts are on this idea. This is the topic that most interds me on this to the question of what is disturbing and, as I've written to all of you before, we think of knowledge and words as something that we developed the meaning of within ourselves. They disturbing could mean something entirely different to different people. The disturbing might be something that's upsetting or something at is sad or something that is frightening, might be something that inspires moral outrage, or might be related to something that involves some sort of awful visual spectacle, or might be something that inspires a sense of revulsion. Thought a lot about it over the past week and I think for me personally, I think of disturbing and I think of the movies that I think of disturbing. What stands out to me is that there tend to be movies that betray my expectations of what I might see, what I'm used to seeing on screen, as well as movies that betray my expectations of the order of the world or the assumptions we can make about so. For you, Adam, a film being disturbing is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not necessarily a bad feeling. It's just that the film challenge your perceptions and challenge your expectation to other film correct as. I would agree with that, and I'm sympathetic to what Saul and Tom said earlier about our disturbing movie can be a good thing if we find it emotionally compelling. I agree completely that movies that elicit an emotional reaction are often movies that I enjoy more, even if those emotional reactions are not necessarily positive feelings. All right, I would agree with all of you that sometimes it's good to have your expectation and to challenge your view on the word and which would expect when watching the film. I believe that films in general as the power to generate a lot of different emotions. Sometimes, even within the same movie, you can feel a lot of different things, and which is why I love WHO's watching films to fill. This type of emotions could change from time to time as the film progress. I also thought a lot about what's disturbing really mean. I think it's interesting that it is hard to define term, even though it seems that it's a term that embodies a lot of different films. It's interesting to see that it's hard to define, but at the same time there are quite a few films and think of as disturbing, even though I couldn't really be...

...able to find with the word really means to me. I agree with Clem the term disturbing is very hard to define and I also agree with what Adams said that different people are different perceptions of what disturbing is. One of the things which a dimension was moral outrage. A lot of people have met in real life it talk about disturbing films. They talk about films that sort of challenge their morals on, you know, subjects that are comfortable to watch. But I look at where the disturbing film the difference between disturbing and scary for me is probably how realistic the film is trying to be. But I think of something like the human centipede that's not really trying to be a realistic. Feel about a guy going out and creating a sense peat out of human beings. It's not trying to be real, it's trying to be a horror film, it's trying to be fiction. However, if I get something like martyrs, which is a film I hope to discuss a little bit later, that's actually trying to be a realistic and say some very real things about what human beings are capable of doing to each other, and I think that disturbs me more because it's or trying to be real rather than just presenting a clear narrative story. I think that you all right with the very notion that disturbing film is subjective. It does depend a lot on the viewing and often the emotions of being sad and upset can go hand in hand with a disturbing film. It can be difficult to segregate these emotions from one another. I think for me, though, when I consider it film it is disturbing, it's usually those films that have a longer lasting impact and stay with me, whether that the images that it kind of being into my mind just through the horror of what of see, or some form of psychological trauma that kind of shakes me to the core and means that I'll never forget the experience. And I really like how Adam brought up the notion of films that betray our expectations, because often when we think of disturbing films we go straight towards the Irish genre. But sometimes the most disturbing elements of a film can come in a film that isn't associated with the horror genre and we'll just have one or two striking movements that seemingly connected know where. That a completely charing and take you by surprise, because it's not. For me, would have expected to see that film, and that can be equally as disturbing as the moments that we witnessing horror films. I think disturbing, even do it is hard to describe, is referring to negative things, negative images, negative ideas or opinion. So I think it's normal that when people think of disturbing film, they would mostly think of violent films or negative films. It's a so it would be more films like horror films, treator type of films. Personally, I realized that I will be more disturbed by a film which has psychological violence in it then, rather than physical films like home invasion type of films. I usually find them very disturbing, even though they're not completely horror films and mostly treat elements. I think that this films are the funds, I add, the most trouble watching, that are the hardest for me to watch, even though they don't really fit you any physical violence, but just the idea of home invasion is in general, is something that disturbs me in real life, I think, which is why it's also really disturbs me what I'm watching it on the screen. Really sympathetic to what climb is saying about times the idea is much more disturbing than what we say. This also relates to what Tom said about how it's not always horrible. Is that we find most disturbing. Mentioned before that sometimes a certain moral outrage can be very disturbing. Two of the movies that I thought of when I listed out the movies that are most disturbing to me, just off the top of my head, not hard movies at all. I thought about whiplash, which have actually written about a bit on the ICM form recently, and I've thought about the two thousand and nineteen movie, the report, which was a historical film about the torture program run by the CIA in the United States and the investigation into that program though there are a few scenes of torture don't really measure up to anything you could see in your average torture porn movie. That's very interesting. Out of my I'd love to know more about what your thoughts on whiplashing and why it is disturbing, because I think it's a great, very suspenseful, edgey seat filmed. For me, it didn't disturb me as search, but I love to see your dispective. Ony Note. The interesting with Lash is a movie that I've come to understand a lot of people really love and I don't want to tell them that they're wrong. It's a movie I really, really dislike, and there are two reasons for that. One is that I feel it really trays the meaning in the history of Jazz, but we can put that aside for a moment and focus more on what I think is the moral or theme of the story.

There's no real way to discuss that without really spoiling the entire movie, which I'm prepared to do, but I thought I'd give people a fair warning that they might want to skip over the next minute. And I saw this movie, I thought the theme of the movie was abuse, use of power and abusive relationships. That's a theme I normally expect that to be treated negatively. The climactic scene of whiplash reverse that expectation for me and to me the message of the movie was that this abusive figure in the movie is actually doing our protagonist of service and then our protagonist benefits from the abuse. I thought that was horrifying and inspired a sense of revulsion, and that's partly because I had a mentor in Grad school who was abusive as well. Not Nearly to the extent of the character in whiplash, but it was certainly was an abusive relationship. I find that there's nothing at all redeeming about it. That's why I truly walked away from the movie horrified and revolted and very disturbed. That's a fascinating point, Adam, and I think it links in very nicely with what we've said already about nature of disturbing films being subjective, because you mentioned that that the events that are portrayed in whiplash are relatable to yourself. So sturbing films have this ability to prey on the fears if people who can relate or find some comparison in the films their own life and hot you know, helps to explain why. It's subjective and it depends on our own personal experiences and their own fears that we have as a view it. But I just mention that I actually had a similar reaction to Adam. I didn't dislike the film, but it did knock it down a bit in my esteem because I wasn't quite sure the end of it what to make of the JK Simmons character, what is motives really worth throughout and whether it's just something random tapped out at the end. There was definitely a strange ending to a film which it seemed to be a lot about abuse and a lot about psychological torture. But also just mentioned it because Clem brought it up. Home. Invasion films is also something that I find it really scary and something that is a bit disturbing for me to watch, and there's like Darren Aronofsky's mother were bit disturbing for me to watch about people coming in and sort of taking over your house and ruining everything. Yeah, I still haven't seen more than force this reason because I know it won't be a good experience for me to watch it. So I have the film, but I haven't really found the diamond and with Tivisian to watch it. Other is a great film. It's not an easy film to watch, but the whole living, breathing nightmare of it was just amazing how well it managed to capture it on screen and I felt, well, these are all emotions that I felt different points in my life. It's not a film that I could watch again easily, but it was definitely very powerful for me in terms of we're talking about disturbing films being able to make you feel something more. There is an excellent film. I found it quite disturbing. I think that links in quite nicely to a next point about whether the caliber of a film has an impact on how disturbing it is, because more is made by Diane Aronofsy and he's an excellent filmmaker. Their visual effects in the film, to cinematography, all brilliant and they obviously have an impact on the most disturbing movements that we see. So it's interesting to compare kind of impact of disturbing films when you consider it sleazy exploitation films from like the late s s. you've got stuff like I spit on your grave and last house on the left, which you kind of like rule the seal, grimy films, unrelenting and kind of grainy, and how they are presented as well. And then if you compare them to all t hose films, you look at the disturbing films of untary antichrist and the House that chat built, and also you've got the films if casper new a, so reversible and I stand alone and as a clear contrast between those, and it's be curious to hear if anyone has a view on which of those two angles they would find more disturbing. Don't really find that the budget for the film or the class of a film really disturbs me that much. It's really the themes, what's going on and how it's presented which makes a film disturbing for me. Interestingly, bring up van try are because a film of his life saw recently in the cinemas was house that Jack Built. That's actually the film that's had the second most walkouts of any film that I've seen in my life. Sawt in a very small cinema. They would have only been maybe twenty or twenty five seats and there and five people walk out at three different key points in the film and all these key points are in grand in my mind because of that and none of...

...it was really that disturbing to me. Obviously there's some quite shocking things in there, but the House that Jack built is a black comedy and I was laughing out loud at certain points, especially to do with how obsessive compulsively is, because I'm a little bit OCD myself. I could relate to it, and he kept going back in the house checking the blood stains and so on. So I found it to be very funny. Yes, or some disturbing stuff in there, but it's presented as a comedy. Didn't find it that the stern. But obviously people had come to the film. They hadn't read anything about it, they had no idea. Who've won three years? They probably saw Matt Dylan's name and go, Oh, you know, I like him and crash or I liked in those Guss van sent films. They've sat down and watched and not knowing what to expect. I think if you knew what to expect, I can't imagine that the House that Jack built would be such a disturbing film. It's funny that you mentioned the walkers and their house a chat built, because I had a similar experience when I went to see anti Christ. For me, I think there is perhaps few more disturbing movements in anti Christ and the House that Jack Built in the perhaps more wellknown, because there are the scenes of genital mutilation that are very disturbing and they prompted a number of walkouts in the auto cinema where viewed it. There was a few old couples in there. Perhaps they weren't sure of what they're going to see what when those scenes came on, it was clear that they were going to stay for the remainder of the film in order to avoid killing people and suspense. Because, I said, the House that Jack Build had the second most walkouts. Film that's actually had the most walkouts that I've gone and seen is actually Adam McKay's vice go about Dick Cheney. There's a bit of a story to that. There was actually a BIA scare at the cinema and we had to evacuate the cinema towards end and I was standing around with the group of other people would gone to see in the film at the side of or this is pretty lousy. It's not a really great film. We're just going to go home. We're actually not going to stick around and wait for them to put out the fire, wait for them to that it was just a hoax. Who it was just a hoax, and I went back in, as well as the other people who are seeing vice with think of that point. We might have had ten people back in the cinema and they started re showing the movie being at least thirty, maybe forty people. Not so much because it's disturbing, but that one did have the most walkouts and there's interesting story to go along with it. But they also might should about vice just because it's interesting in those not quite way to disturbing image. Reason we knew there was a fire is that there was this blaring horn sound. But of course, with advice, Adam McKay being himself and putting all these random, stranger, weird things in thoughs, is just part of the film's is just Adam cake being annoying again. It already we started and had the end credits in there and carried out on all the other tricks. So looking at each other the theater going is just part of the film. Or is this alarm actually an alarm? Such a kind of interesting because if you think about a film like demons, the Italian or film for the s that's about cinema patrons and there's all these demons coming out of the theater and they actually think it's part of the film, and I guess it can be a bit disturbing and itself. It becomes so immersed to the movie you don't realize when there's actually an emergency happening within the cinema itself. If you think about the beginning of wes craven scream to where the first murder is happening in the cinema in the showing of the movie stabbed. This woman gets up, she's stabbed in front of everybody and nobody reacts because they all think it's just a prankster. They all think it's actually part of the film experience. If we understand that, an actual emergency in the cinema is definitely the most disturbing thing. I really like saw how you sort of tight it to movies where what we see on screen might implicitly threatened where we are at that moment. Those are two great examples that you gave demons and screen to. I was just thinking about how if you're ever on an airplane you see a movie on the air plane that comes from the end of team in system, they will always edit out anything in the movie related to plane crashures. I think that's an example how, even one we willing to see disturbing things on screen, were often definitely not willing to see disturbing things that you're threatening to them in that moment. That's a great point to as adding, because they're actually searching companies that put on specific screenings in certain locations to enhance the experience in the film, and know that being screenings of jewels, for instance in swimming pools or outside on the water, where people will be actually in the water while they're watching jewels. And there's also been things over here where there's show their which at night in the woods. And I love the idea of building on the experience, so it's not just what you're watching on screen but actually the environment that you're immersed in at the same time. That can enhance the experience of being disturbed.

So for me I think that both our tears films and this sleazy exploitation films have the power to disturb me. It's interesting to note that they do so in different ways. With the tendency of art has films to build up this kind of sense of dread and mood through the atmosphere, where is the sleazy exploitation films kind of battery over ahead with fill and as files. On that note, it's interesting to discuss the concept of what specific to violence that would make you think twice about watching a film. There any specific things that will tune you will for watching the film? So for me the one thing that find very difficult to watch is it seems that involve rape or child abuse in some way. When I wrote down a few days ago on my list of movies that have disturbed me, that I included were a boy bobby and a history of violence. Bad Boy Bobby, Yin's really the first half hour of the movie is very much concerned with an abusive relationship that involves a consensual sex. Expectedly, it then becomes a comedy over the last hour of the movie and I actually really liked that boy bobby, but first half hour was difficult to watch. History violence is an interesting one because I remember when I saw it there were a couple walkouts in the CINEMI was that it wasn't the violence I found nearly as disturbing as the one sex scene in the movie, which really straddles the line between rape and not rape. Me It looked like rape scene, even if it isn't, it's definitely a scene of very aggressive sex. What was perhaps most disturbing is that it occurred between a really loving married couple. So any scenes and include a poor or child abuse I find very, very disturbing. Reversible is a movie that I know I will never see. For example, yes, especially in them, I gust see. I remembers your rape seemed to be very real and there is no juts, the camera doesn't move around. It really feels like you're there watching what happens and not really being able to do anything. To answer the question, I don't think there is anything that really would stop to me from watching a film. There are obviously some subjects that makes me think twice about watching it, but we were talking about mother earlier on and it's not a film that I know I'm going to watch soon. I know I have to be like right kind of mind before watching it. It's not that the other subjects do not move me or anything, of course, it's just that I guess I'm able to bring myself to think that what I'm watching is just a film, just to movie. What's going on is on the screen at least, is not real, even though it's obviously something that is sadly happening every day everywhere in the world, and not just great with child abuse, but murder, torture and any anything that human mind can think of. So it's not something I enjoy watching either, but I guess it's easier for me to bring myself to think that what I'm watching is not real. I was thinking about it and I realize that films that I find well, not disturbing but very scary, as or films, are found footage films, which is because I think it's even harder to realize that what you're watching is not real because it's made in a way that makes you think that film that we found on someone's cameras. It's what's going on in is real. Before we get into the topic of acts of violence that I find disturbing to watch, thought I might respond to some of the points brought up by my cohost. The films that Adammension, bad boy bobby and a history of violence. I'm a big fan of both of those films are from couple my favorite directors, off to here and David Cronenberg, boy bobby. I agree is disturbing to start off with, but it does and morph into a comedy and it's sort of about him getting away from that abusive relationship and making a life for him self. Or even though some parts of it were hard to watch, I thought it was necessary as part of the journey that the character goes on the history of violence. It's a film that I've seen or five times. I really like it and I think that rape scene is very necessary in there as part of the character progression because, without spoiling it too much, it's all about the Vego mortis and character wrestling with his past and who he was, and that sort of comes out with the way that he is with his wife. So I thought I was very necessary. Though I can understand for some people might be hard to watch the rape in general, I don't really find that that difficult to watch as a that to violence. Fine Body mutilations much more disturbing, especially anything to do with teeth. Actually an incident when I was younger where I walked into a pole at camp a chip my front to then none of the teachers would...

...believe me. So watching teeth in films is very hard for me, but I will still watch it. I'll just sometimes to turn away or cover my eyes a little bit. Any sorts of body mutilations and thinking of films even like still with like eyes being burnt out. It's very hard for me to watch, but I will still watch it, though it's disturbing. It's making me feel something and I'm recognizing that it's making me feel something. And even slicing eyes, even and Chan and Alu. It's not easy to watch, but it's something that I will still watch. But it's something which is a bit more as for me. I don't know if I'd quite call it to everything, but it is something that's not easy to watch. What's really disturbing for me is some thing about a Japanese anime film called Barefoot Again, which is about surviving the Hiroshima blast and the nuclear radiation fall out, and that's got some very disturbing images in there, even though it's animated film, body parts melting away or clawing out a door and is sort of his hands, or is pause turning into bone. It's got some really shocking imagery and there, even though it's animated film, and that preview my pick for the number one most disturbing film that I've ever seen. was going to also just react to something that claim mentioned. He said that he found found footage or disturbing because it's hard to tell it's real or not real. Actually the reverse of that. I find a film more immersive it's not found footage. I don't like the found footage format a lot or the shaky camera work serves to remind me than what I'm watching as a constructed film. If the camera work is less visible, if it's more or more as we've been come to know the last a hundred years. I found myself easier to get immersed in there, rather something of the camera shaking a lot and you know, you can see the record button and everything, and actually draws my attention to the fact that it has been constructed and makes it less disturbing for me. And just have to jump in to say that I feel completely the same saw when it comes to any movies and involved what you might call dental torture, and I think it points again to fact that, well, we find most disturbing. His very personal and often based on our own experiences. For Saul it was having that incident of walking into the pool. Me It's seeing my father going through what at this point must have been dozens of dental surgeries over the years. So moving like marathon man was excruciating for me. Seen involving the infected tooth cast away with also something that I found very difficult to watch. So as a huge horror fun there's not really anything will to me off from watching a film. I think that Clem put it nicely in the fact that he says you always know in the back of your mind that what you're watching isn't real. So in that way I can kind of distance mysel from it and forget what is happening on screen because I marriage not real and just enjoy it for what it is. There are certain branch of films that I have tried to watch and just can't persevere within. This is the films like the Guinea pig series and August underground. It's just torture, repulsive imagery and little else. There's just now kind of satisfaction or joy to be had in watching these kind of films, and for me that is kind of where I draw the line. One of the thing that makes me think twice about watching a film will be animal cruelty. Thankfully, it's something that we don't see that often in films made recently, but if you look back into the past you've got films like Cannibal Holocaust. There's a number of animal deaths that you said they see on screen, and also waking for there's a scene in which I remember kangaroos called. It's really upsetting because you can see the kind of pain and suffering that the animals go through and I find that completely unnecessary. It seems a home movie doesn't really bring anything to the film. I didn't see the Guinea pig films. I was considering watching one of them for this week's podcast. Upon reading about it, it did sound like I was just torture for the sake of it, though. That intrigues me. Author, because one of my favorite films of all time is video drome. Of course, in that you have James would being into that broadcast last of a show which just seems to be torture and nothing else. I'm sort of intrigued to see something that possibly could be broadcast as part of that videodrame experience. But I guess for me myself, watching somebody be tortured with no other reason for it doesn't really truck me to a film shows of animal cruelty. That's never really been that much of they turn off for me been a lot of depends upon what you're doing to the animal, I mean what they do to the cast in like all o French Canadian film is quite disturbing, I guess, things like Cannibal...

Holocaust, a lot of people saying was disturbing because the violence actually happened to the animals actually were killed. The way I look at animal violence in films is it doesn't really matter to me whether it was real or whether it was fake, because what I'm watching is the film itself. The film itself is a static object. Film doesn't change based on what you read about it. Film does become worse to me or better for me just because animals were or not killed in the making of it, though, I think the most shocking thing that I've read about in terms of animal cruelty in the film is the children film are the adventures of Milo and Otis. It Shas apparently the first film that I've watched in cinemas about the adventures of this cat and this dog, and there's a scene there where the cat jumps off a cliff and a power they threw to your thirty real cats and killed them off the cliff it just in order to be able to make that say that's what it makes you go HMM, but it didn't disturb me as such while I was watching the former. I haven't seen the Guinea peaks series either, but I've seen another Japanese film which was made in the same way. You just can't protest. It. was really seeing two thousand and nine, I think, and it's features this kind of mad doctor who kidnaps do teenager and boy and the girl in the torture them. I believe it is to feel sexual excitement again. Heaven seen grotesque, but listings acclaim describe it. It sounds quite interesting because it sounds like it's not just a playing torture film. It's a torture film but also saying something about the protagonist that is getting some sort of fulfillment out of it. Just thinking in terms of some what described as torture porn horror films like the hostile series actually kind of like those, even though they difficult to watch, because a lot of it is about torture itself and about what people get out of it and what people can do to each other. So when you consider films like hostile and a Serbian film and those that fall under their torture porn bracket, the filmmakers seems to take great pleasure in sharing the extreme acts of depravity and violence in order to disturb the audience, and it's interesting to consider whether that which is implow side or isn't actually shown, whether that can be as disturbing as that which has shown. So I think I've got a couple of examples here that'd like to put forward. So first of all is the challaccene in psycho, because hitchcock is a master here in that we don't actually see the blade penetrate in the body of the victim. It's just through a number of powerful cups and the audience's imagination that we think that we've seen this violent act in all of its glory. Another example would be in American history x there's an infamous scene with curb stumping. In this scene, again there's clever editing. You don't actually see the act happen, but the build up to it and the cuts the filmmakers use make us imagine that we've seen these acts of violence. The imagination can be a powerful tool and it makes these two scenes feel really disturbing when we don't actually see the specific apps violence. So I'm wondering if anyone else feels that way or has any examples of scenes where the violence isn't shown but it's just implied. Which Cock was definitely one of the people I thought of as someone who we said the anticipation of something happening much more suspenseful and terrifying then the actual then I also thought of Val Lewden, famously made entire movie at people where we don't really see anything frightening happening. The entire movie is built around what we don't see. I don't have any specific movies I would mention off the top of my mind. I definitely agree that sometimes what we don't see is more disturbing than what we do. American psycho, which is definitely a movie that a lot of people find disturbing. If you read the book, found it vastly more disturbing than watching the movie, to the point where there were many points where I simply had to put the book down and stop reading. I would also mention the movie apt people, which is originally a Stephen King of Vella called summer of corruption. That was another one where I found the source material are more disturbing than the movie itself. So I think those are two examples of what we imagine with their mind is more disturbing than any visualization on the screen. Where we're on the topic of books, that's what I would mention. I know the author, that's right, or books, but never really describe or never really shows what the months to look like. Is lovecrafts not an exproved on is books, but I've read just a few of them and I think it's really interesting that you never really in some of WHO's describe what monsters all the creatures looks. I can gets up to you to make up your...

...own image of what the characters in the books are watching, and maybe that's the reason why lovecraft hasn't been adapted into films as much as some other motors, such as the gallant poll for example, or Stephen King and even though I know he wrote the foust realimator and they were also, as a cooler fuck with who released fifteen years ago. But these are really is a two films that I think of, and I can think of a lot of films coming from books by it down and goods difference from prison. This topic, I just want to refer to something which Yoga, one of our producers, mentioned and what she said is that films where we don't see what's happening, they can be scarier than actually seeing it. Sometimes, when you sectually see a monster it looks quite ridiculous. They give out things like the night of the Demon, m Jack Turnour, who did cat people. It's Freaky, but it's a bit scary when you don't actually see it. However, it's more disturbing, I think, when you do see something. So something can be scarier because our imaginations will fill in the details. But for it to be disturbed. But get releas Timplat, that image in there for me, but don't actually have the image of, say, those people with that shotgun at the start of martyrs or if I don't have that sort of image of the dogs flesh melting off in barefoot get it wouldn't be so disturbing for me. It might be scarier if it was implied, but for it to be disturbing that image needs to really be ingrained in my brain. So it's interesting to hear the points about monsters that we see on screen and whether they are is effective as those that we don't see on screen. And all that plays into the imagination view it and leaves it up to you to fill in the gaps and potentially create something more horrifying than the filmmakers could create themselves. One great example of this, think, is the Blair witch projects, one of the most infamous found footage films, because throughout that film you don't see what is terrorizing the protagonist. It's kind of left your imagination. I saw that as quite a young view it and that frighten the hell out of me because my imagination run wild. I think that can be just as effective, but, as soul mentioned, that is moving away from the angle of a film being disturbing and a film being more scary. For me to be disturbed, I think it is usually what is shown on screen that the disturbs me, if it has the power to disturb the violence and brutality, and that isn't always limited horror films. I find that a lot of war films can be equally as disturbing. You see a lot of the carnage and the violent and in some instances you know when the films are based quite closely on historical facts, you know that these events happened, and that can have the effect of sickening use to the core. I'm curious to see what films outside the horror Genre people being disturbed the most. It's interesting that you mentioned war movies. When I originally made my list of disturbing movies, put down, for example, the deer hunter and come and see. And the truth is not sure that they found them disturbing as much as I found them spirtlely sad. They were said to the extent that ruined the rest of my day. I say ruined. They weren't bad movies, they're excellent movies and I'm glad that I saw them, but they affected me in terms of I remain sad for the rest of the day and really affected me for several days. Further beyond that and beyond some of the other movies I mentioned, like whiplash, I would mention movies by Kubrick and some works by David Lynch. A clockwork orange I found very disturbing and perhaps that was the age that I saw. That I saw when I was fourteen. Think of that point I was very customed to certain type of movie violence, not accustomed to the type of violence I saw in a clockwork orange. This gets back to what I said at the beginning of the episode about movies that betray our expectations. A clockwork orange is very violent. It's perhaps no violent than other very violent movies, but it is violent in a way that we're not used to. Violence is extreme, not played for laughs, it's played in a sort of very sickening way. So I found that disturbing and that when I mentioned David Lynch, and I think this is really an example of how surreal isn't perhaps can be more disturbing than horror, though maybe the two aren't so separate. incious works have always included elements of her without perhaps being hard themselves. To think of a movie like Mulholland drive. There is a very famous scene outside the diner that is very scary. Found the entire thing very disturbing because I I just didn't know what to do with it. I watched it the first time and I didn't really...

...have a clue what I was watching. I felt in some ways that this inscrestion of tropes, of film expectations, way which it subverted my sense of reality was very disturbing. There are two films I'm thinking about right now that this could be when I watch them to are not more films, even though the second one could be considered grow film by my son. The first one I was thinking about the saving private Triya. Like Adam, I watched this film when I was quite young, let's say. I think I was about thirteen when I saw it, and it was the first half hour, at the very beginning of the film, when the American arrived at the beach in the only and it was the first time that I really saw such violence in a film. So after about twenty twenty five, new that to pose the film and stop because it was a was too much, too much for me back then. I especially remember a scene at the beginning where there is a soldier Lyne on the beach with his entrails out of his so much I remember this in left, in fact, on me. I've seen the film a few times since and I'm sure nowaday to do anything to me, but back when I watched it, it was really, really disturbing to me. The second film I was thinking about is the movie by any KI called Cashi. I don't like the English title, maybe hidden. I'm not sure if people would call it a whole film. So I would mostly consider it to be a twitter type of film, but I was really disturbed by the overall atmosphere, just like selling prodatry, and I think I saw it when I was maybe fourteen, fifteen, and I think it was the first time when I watched the film with this type of psychological culture, almost because it's not really home invasion, but it almost is in a way, because you're receiving this strange tapes from someone you do not know who he is, you don't know what he wants, but he is filming your house and then some new paper. Feel it's very strange and very creepy because no one can really do anything about it because it's there is no manaise or anything, just some on Sen you tapes. And for this reason, the fact that we do not know who the person behind it all is, what he wants and is attitude is very disturbing, is the right word. I think. I believe jes she was another one of films that I really felt disturbed by. I think I might start off by reacting to some of the films that have been brought up by my cohosts be far dear hunter. I don't know if I found that to disturbing myself, for the most disturbing thing about it for me was that wedding seemed seemed to go on for about an hour. In terms of the Russian roulette stuff. Some of that was quite intense. I don't know if I would have caught it disturbing. And C is an interesting film, I guess, just towards the disturbing end of the spectrum. Clockwork Orange is also a film that I saw at an early age and I think ever found it disturbing. The world's quite a bit of violence in there, but it wasn't like torture violence, and the way the violence was portrayed, or at least initially, was these friends going out and having a little bit of fun, which I guess should be disturbing, but for me as a teen or sixteen yard and when I watched it, I just thought are just some teenagers looking around and getting up to what they shouldn't be getting up to. So I didn't find it that disturbing. Some of the films that were mentioned are saving private Ryde seriesting one, because I probably wouldn't have been a lot older than them when I sat down and watched it, and that didn't disturb me too much. Have probably seen a lot of war films at that point in time I get I would have been maybe fifteen or sixteen. I would have seen a lot of horror films and I guess when you see a lot of blood and guts and horror films maybe it climatizes you to sing in another genres. A nice saving private I didn't disturb me that much of the time any think I've watched it since cache's an interesting film. I really like about is the way it's sort of quite breaks the fourth war but sort of blurs it. Is All idea, since the filmmaker who's sending the tapes to the character there see it's what of have that blur and line there, but it is obviously done comfortable because the other know where the tapes are coming from. But I'll probably go for funny games as a more disturbing Michael Huneker film because I guess with Funny Games, you have the bad tagging us, going in and rewinding the stuff and going back and doing it again when the protagonists managed to overcome them. I Guess Funny Games is borderline horror, so it wouldn't be valid for this point. In terms of non horror films that have disturbed me the most, the one that I've mentioned a couple times already is barefoot again, but only seen it once and when I saw it it's got this amazing poster...

...and imdb with gain's bare foot and looks like a bright and bubbly comedy. It can't be any further than that, and I guess the expectations played a lot into what I reacted to barefoot again. It was much more shocking than anything I could have prepared myself for, even though was a man. It just the images their children dying, the owns becoming brittle on them, breaking away, a dog's pause melting away. It really captured for me the horrors of surviving the here a shape, a blast. One of the things that I said about at the time which should make you want to say barefoot, get, if you haven't already that bare forget. It makes drive of the fireflies look like a braize, a walk through a park on a sunny Sunday afternoon made on watch drive of fireflies, to smile and get after watching barefoot together. That's how disturbing it whilst for me when I saw at the time and not being able to pull myself to rewatch it. Since there are two things I would like to add to what you just said. So, regarding funny games, I didn't think about that song and I was trying to find disturbing films, but it's true that it's a kind that is quite disturbing as well. There is a scene you mentioned towards the end of the film where the main character rewind the film after is a partner is skilled. This scene was a very interesting scene for me because it was the moment where the film stopped being disturbing for me. I was really disturbed by everything before. I was at the edge of my seat, I was uncomfortable by when I was seeing, but seeing him rewinding the film like that gave the entire film with totally new dimension, totally new perspective for me. I was like, well, okay, it's just allow, it's just a film. It's a strange, dark film, but didn't film. It was almost like a comic relief type of seemed really actually even when I watched it. It's not a negative thing the because I really like the film, but this scene had US special impact on me because it was really at that point in the film to the new dimension for me. A second thing I would like to say is about their food. Get or German. No, I haven't seen it, but you made me think of another film, a Japanese film from one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, which is called black rain by Shoy EMM Buro, and there is this scene at the beginning for about twenty twenty five minutes from what I remember, that features the city of Yeroshima right after the atomic bomb dropped. So we see the Jaos that is going on and we have this scenes of burned in a be tense child drawn dying or being burned there and everyone going inside the city being on fire. I think it was very, very powerful scene and very very powerful beg. So there's been some great disturbing films mentioned. Interesting to say that a lot of people obviously disturbed by war films. I can relate to its like to what soul we're saying about saving private ryant. A lot of violence is intense water start. The time I saw it I was kind of immune to that because of my passion for the horror genre. You get kind of used to seeing that kind of violent, but you can imagine that Speis you not see much hollower by that point or not used to that kind of violence. It's surely capable of disturbing or shocking that. I completely agree that. There foot again is an incredibly disturbing film and I would like to echo souls recommendations of that film. It's incredible to think that this animated piece of work could be as disturbing as a horror film. Basically the depictions of the Russian mum and the aftermath and just paint a picture of pure hall and it's incredibly terrifying and points and perhaps because it's an animation that's why it draws you so much, because you don't use the expect that level of disturbance from a medium of filmmaking that is kind of usually reserve for children's audience. I would recommend that one totally. Also interesting to think that films such as Mulholland drive and cash are mentioned because I love those kind of films where there's just one or two moments perhaps that disturbed the viewer, and I love nothing more than watching a non horror film, no expectation of what's coming, and then there's just a shocking moment or something that disturbs you. I struggle to find films like these because when you research films to watch because they meant to be disturbing, it obviously notifies you that you're going to watch some for the new looking out for something that's going to be disturbing, but perhaps newer films when you see them in the cinema and you want aware of what's going to happen and something that that hits you that always takes a bit by surprise and I love that feeling. So, going back to the film's outside horror genre, that just dard me the most. I will have...

...to bring up common see, which is one of my all time favorite first and it's a war film from the Seriet Union and it's just this ugly and horrific depiction of war is seen through the eyes of an innocent young boy who's caught up in their Nazi invasion of Belarus during World War Two. It's completely graphic and Vasera film that doesn't shy away from encompassing the brutal atrocities and war crimes that were committed in the darkest days of the war, and I think that warnings of its disturbing nature deserve to be heeded. The director stages is action with it a dedication to realism that transports the viewer into the heart of the carnage. Stunningly choreographed long takes add weight to the impact of the relentless onslaught. They also demonstrate the breathtaking direction of a master cinematographer, where the impeccable sound editing enhances the sense of hopelessness. Has Ricochet bullets with through the undergrowth and violent explosion shape year, studying anyone caught in the blast radius and leaving them confused and disoriented. To we experience firsthand, as the audience, the unnatural ringing sensation that engulfs there. Hearing the heart of come and see, there's a haunting transformation. We see a devastating corruption of innocence, with a swift forces from childhood to adulthood and veiling before our very eyes, as the young protagonist lives through this horrific period in history. It's one of those monumental films that just kind of hit you like a sledge how of how devastated and traumatic it is, and for me that's the pinnacle of disturbing film that isn't horror filled. To say, you can totally understand why people might consider classifying it as a horror film moving on to their horror genre. Now I'd love to hear what horror films you've seen that the most disturbing, that have had last in psychological impact or just really shaking me to the cool. This is a hard question for me to answer because it comes to horror movies, am a real scaredy cat. I find hard movies very difficult to watch, not because they're been disturbing, but because I get scared easily and some sense every horror movie is a scary movie for me, but that's not quite the same as disturbing, or at least sturbing can mean a lot more that sense. The only horror movie that I can think of that I found disturbing was the shining, and a lot can be said about the shining, enough to fill the podcast episodes. Guess maybe one of the most disturbing things I find about it is that, no matter how many times I watch it this point, it must be a half dozen or so, still find it a difficult experience. It still remains very scary. It's still something that shakes me a little. The thing disturbs me about it is the sense in which it conjures a sense of unreality. And I'm not just talking about the fantastical elements and story, the ghosts and whatnot. I'm talking about the sense that movie shorts a descent into mess and involves us in that descent innest stand where if you're really immersed in the movie, as I have been sometimes, for really questioning what you're seeing and what you understand about what you're seeing on the screen. But had to pick one, it would be the shining in terms of for film that disturbs me. I think I'm going to mention the first real or film that I ever watched, because I think that was the one who really had a big impact on me and in a way, started love that. Nowadays I have four or films. It is the remake of the hills advice, the first one, which was released in two thousand and five, I believe, so I must have watched it when I was without thirteen or fourteen. Looking back at it's a good or film, but it's not that scary or that disturbing. But once again, proves the first or film that I watched and it was the first time I was confronted to this type of for imagery featuring this irradiated monsters. There is this thing towards the middle of the film where the Treasury is hanged on a tree and burned alive. There was also another seeing towards the end of the movie where the main character is who's going out to see Ki's baby, which has been kidnapped, is trapped in this bathtub somehow tilled with human parts, legs are so on. These are things that blacks and I wasn't used to see at all and for this reason I found it quite disturbing for the first time I saw it's but I was also intrigued in a way and something clicked with me. It wasn't the present experience, but somehow I wanted more, for some reason, so I started watching a bit more ror films. I remember seeing the so series of films and being quite disturbed by some of them, especially the first one. The third one also was quite disturbing for me. I believe it is a third...

...one where there is a scene where there is a guy who's nailed to the ground in some kind of huge goal and is being drowned in this rotten pigs fluid that are crushed and reduced to fluid and they're drowning him with it. As that was quite sickening when I first watched but at the same time fascinating, and I think that about the two main or films that really disturbing them most. They were the first because there was the first horror films I saw, to the first time for me to be seeing this type of film society imagery, and later on, for some reason I cannot recall other films that disturbed me as much as this films. I thought the shotting was interesting film to bring up. I don't don't know if I'd say I'd find that disturbing, but it's definitely quite creepy. One thing I noticed I last watch the film is that a lot of the terror is just build up through the music and the camera angles, other than what the characters are saying. The part where Jack Nicholson is on Danny's bed and he's talking to him and it all felt really uncomfortable. I realized that I wasn't actually paying attention to what was being said. Those just way the music was going, in the way that all shot. That was given me that feeling. Anything about the shining is that Dr Sleep came out last year also, which is obviously the sequel to the shining. Don't know if I'd call doctor sleep a disturbing film, but he has a really interesting film and it's from a director called Mike Flanagan, who did OCULUS, which I would say is actually board room towards disturbing, about a mirror that might have but demonic powers and plays a bit like an x files episode with a Believer, I don't nonbeliever, trying to work out whether this mirror really can kill people or not. Interesting film and it's slightly off topic. The hills have eyes. I've seen the original, I haven't seen the remake. Saw Films actually have set through the first force or films. Didn't particularly like any of them. That's really what I think of torture port. I really think of the saw films and know that the fenders of the source series has said that it's all about I to survive, and how much do you really want to live what he prepared had to do? I find that very repetitive and I found it a very hard film to watch. Or four the first force or films. Very hard to watch it or so much disturbing, but obviously it was very hard because, as I said, how about body mutilations? I don't like watching that. So I found that I was looking away a lot during it didn't disturb me, didn't really have those images that were ingrained in my mind the same way that images in something like barefoot again or something like the hostel films, those are really been ingrained in my mind. In terms of talking about a horror film that I found disturbing myself, and mentioned martyrs a couple of times in the podcast. Marty is for anybody WHO's not familiar with it. It's a Quebec film and it's about this woman who agrees to help her friend try and get back at the people who she suspects abuse to her as a child. And rewatched it this week because I wanted to see if I would react to it the same way, and it's kind of interesting because the first thy five minutes or so of Marts is really disturbing because you see this will be grow through with a shotgun and killing these children, killing at this husband and wife poor time through. Also see her imagine this person. Is it there? So for the first forty five minutes you go, Oh, you know she was crazy. This is so disturbing. She's killing these innocent people have done nothing to her. And then, without spotting it too much, the plot does develop from there. It turns out that yes, they actually guilty of doing stuff to her, and the reasons why end up being quite chilling by the end of the film. WAS INTERESTING RE watching it because I sort of wanted to go what I find it as disturbing. I guess maybe not in terms of that. I really felt for her when she was killing the husband and wife the second time around. Beside you I she was doing that, and what pushed it towards that. That all still hard to watch. And still love to do a few film purism podcast at some stage, because Marty is is not a film. I watched two one go and if I can imagine, what to get one in one go in the cinema when it came out. But I did stop and start the film at quite a few points with a lot of it's really intense and the whole idea of the film seems to be the limits to which human beings could do terrible things to other human beings in pursuit of a goal. As I said towards the beginning of the PODCAST, it's very realistic. It's not like the human centipede where it's try to be a bit silly and a bit out there. It's actually try to be very realistic, which makes it so disturbing. It's great that you bring got more s has because there is an incredibly disturbing film and sounds quite awerful story, and that...

...just makes the disturbing perspects of the film hitting even more. For me, there's two films that I think of when it comes to most disturbing kind of films that I've seen. One was actually brought up by climbing a conversation we had earlier in the week. Australian found footage film Lake Wingo. The very concept of the film kind of has a lasting psychological impact on the viewer. I wouldn't want to spoil it, but the main concept of the film is that a girl is dad and trying to find out what has happened to it, and the incorporate some mysterious footage, and what is shown in this footage kind of just shakes you to the core when you see it. It's more the fact of thinking that if that ever happened to you, how you would deal with it in that situation. It's something that kind of plays on your mind and I personally thought about quite a lot after watching the film. For Film to have that lasting impact, I relish that opportunity because it doesn't come along that often. So when a film haunts me for days, I know that it's one that is made a real big impact on me. The other one that had liked to mention is, thankstring, Austrian horror film. This is an underappreciated landmark in Austrian horror cinema, mean perhaps the only Austrian Hor land law, and it follows the events of a deranged serial killer over the course of two days as embarks on a series of violent and unprovoked attacks on the innocent people he encounters. The violence depicted is bloody and savage, like a cruel display of the worst aspects of human nature, and this may be shocking to behold. But it's true power lies in the craftsmanship of those involved, because what would have been a lowbrow B movie transcends into the realm of a are a masterpiece, thanks to the direct actors artistic for us, the seemingly frenzied yet meticulous camera were an excruciating what hypnotizing long takes offer a glimpse into a savage world that is rarely displayed with such appreciation for the cinematic medium and the intensity of the violence as much by nerve shredding soundtrack that clause its way under your skin that exacerbates the relentless nature of the on screen carnage. Now, angst was also a film that heavily influenced Gasper neary. He sides it as a great influence on his work, and without angst we might not have had a standalone or irreversible or of a film from the way that explore the disturbing aspects of human nature. So I'm thankful for that, in the influence that it's hard, but also in the experience of watching angst alone. It's such a powerful and disturbing film that I can't recommend it enough for anyone who enjoys these kind of films but hasn't yet seen it. To conclude this list of disturbing films, I would like to also mention two other films that I didn't mention before because I didn't really knew where to put their music. Horror films or not. The first one is the Japanese film from the S, which is called nine hundred sixty four pop was made by choosing boquill right. It is a strange them punk type of film film which features possess sex robots that becomes dysfunctional because he cannot keep an erection anymore. So he is thrown away in the street, but is completely lobotomized because he's only been made for the purpose of having sex with rich woman. So he is thrown in the dark streets. He lives there. He even lived on the ground in Japan, and you will meet with a girl who's a junky from what I remember, and the entire atmosphere is extremely dark. The way the film is made is very strange. The main character is very tortured, is always screaming and making the strange noises and acting in trene and disturbed ways. So it was very fascinating to see him act completely insane in real life Japan, because once again, he is just some kind of a robot, but the human form that has been completely robotomized and is obviously not fit for society, is not fit to live. Even watching this film made up pretty big impact on me. And the second film I wanted to mention is a film from two thousand and six called slaughtered from its doors, by the filmmaker Lucifer Valentine. I'm not too expert on this urbanismography. I've on this in this film, but I know that all these films are more or less the same. It's another strange film, filled with drugs and prostitutes and hallucin nations, and it also features a lot of cooking, a lot, a lots and the lots fuking on themselves, on others, on things, on everything, and it's...

...pretty much this for an hour or something, and at the end of your watching you feel a bit dirty, I would say, by what you've been watching. Since you're short films, I actually wanted to see another one by the same filmmaker, user untime after watching sluttered for met Tom's but after watching it I decided that I needed a breach, so I didn't watch anything afterwards. So yeah, I guess I will watch some other films by him at some point, but it's probably not a filmography I'll be being watching any time soon. I think the filmmaker even said in an interview that he actually find it sexually attractive that someone's cooking on him. So he clearly have some strange fantasies that he likes to including his films. So these are two films I would recommend for people if they want to see something a bit different, the first one being a nine hundred sixty four POKO and second one being sluttered for meat stops by usuper Valentin Club. That's my viewing. Phillishy even line up. So if like for those two recommendations, yeah, I'm always let to them. Just thought I would say on the topic of so gratification, how some that could be disturbing that people are attracted to Puke and other things, obviously being some great films made on subjects like that. Or, if I call them disturbing, things like a dirty shame, John Waters and love other films that sort of explore the whole realm of our people find to be sexually attractive interesting. It's a different idea of the reason why I might find something disturbing. So I must say this has been a really enjoyable episode. It's been great to discuss all these aspects of disturbing films, what we find disturbing, and, of course, I moves to steering films that we've seen. I think it's clear from today's discussion that disturbing cinema kind of appeals to the natural curiosity of viewers who have an affinity with the whoor genre and are open to challenging viewing experiences. I knew that I'm always on the lookout for filmmakers to attempt to push the boundaries of extreme cinema in this respect and I can't wait to see what to use would be challenged by a future generations of filmmakers. It's also interesting to note that, I'm interpretations of disturbing film come back on a subjective point of view and differ depending on our own personal experiences. What the viewer finds disturbing can differ depending on past experiences or personal experiences that have an impact on their viewing. So I hope that you've enjoyed listening to today's episode and we would love it if you stop by at the I check news for him, to read the weed ut ICM formcom to share stories of your own experiences of disturbing films with us on the forum, and also, I just like to say thank you very much for listening and please join us next week, where we will have a very special guest on the podcast. Hi Everyone, that's Chris here. I just want to drop in and reveal the identity of our not soul secret guest. It is indeed mighty sparks, the cofounder of the ICM forum, and I will do on us as well, meaning both of the Co founders of the ICM form will be with us. And guess what it will be twice in a row. Next week will explore the decline of film forums as a way for Cindo fhile to communicate, and the following week we will dig into the Oregon Stories of the ICM forum itself, and that will be absolutely shocking. Actually, there'll be some pretty interesting reveals. So thank you again for listening. Join us again soon and let's see if the episode in two weeks will be a little bit disturbing. You have been listening to talking images. Official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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