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Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 27 · 1 year ago

Studio Ghibli

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we will not just discuss the magical work of Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahata, or the mediocre work of everyone else - we will look at how their careers developed in contrast to each other from their first double feature, to their last.

That is to say, the 1988 double feature that in so many ways showcased what Studio Ghibli could do:

  • My Neighbour Totoro
  • Grave of the Fireflies

And the studio's, at the time, proposed swansongs of 2013:

  • The Wind Rises
  • The Tale of the Princess Kaguya

Almost every film before, in between and after will also get a mention - some in detail - as we marvel at just how these two giants of cinema changed the landscape of anime.

We will also push the arguably already accepted claim that Studio Ghibli - rather than being the Japanese Disney, really was a platform for two great artists to develop their own unique style - screw everyone else!

The fact that the studio has been withering away, is as such no true fall - but a showcase of how it truly was Takahata and Miyazaki holding it all together - and with the older Miyazaki coming out of retirement - and the lesser Miyazaki (Goro) seemingly fumbling into 3D, Studio Ghibli is at an odd place in its own history.

But regardless of where they may go, and if this is really the end - it has been an incredible journey. One we hope to pay tribute to and honour.

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone, I'm Chris and in this episode we will not just discuss the magical works of Yomi Asaki and it's all Takahata, or the mediocre works of everyone else. It will also offer a public service announcement. You may actually have been mispronouncing the name of their studio your entire life, and if you have, the real pronunciation may come as a complete and utter shock. It is in fact not pronounced Studio Ghibli but studio kibbutty. That's right, Gibberty, and while some of you may still be crowdling in a fetal position on the floor, let's dive into the greatest studio in anime history. It will be absolutely impossible, though, to do justice to all of Studio Ghibberties twenty films in just one episode. Have therefore chosen to focus in on the two driving creative forces of the studio, Heyami Asaki and its AU Takahata, and examine studio gibberty through the Lens of their first and last double features, that is to say the double feature of one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight, which in so many ways kick started the studio Gibberty we know today. A my neighbor taught and gray of the fireflies and the studios, at least at that time, proposed swan songs of two thousand and thirteen, the wind rises and the tail of Princess Kaguya. We will look at how these films contrasted shelter and tell a story of studio gibberties emotional and artistic power. We will also look at how Meassaki and alcohol develop their style over this twenty five year period and the rise and, if not a complete fall decline of studio gibberty with no promising are apparent insight. As usual, I'm joined by two wonderful cohosts. So I matura, and let's just jump right into this guy's what is your very first memory of Studio Ghiberti? What is the first film you saw from them and what was your general experience? Hi, I met you the such giblie thing I watched, and I'm going to put on said Ghibli because I thought it was Jibbuy actually in Japanese. Boo. I'm not going to try that, so I'm just going to stick with Ghibli. So I think the first thing I watched was casting the sky and I remember the liking it. But really there were four films that I discovered when I was like eleven or twelve, and so it was casting the sky, fines monokee, beat it away and house moving castle, and the one that's really affected me at the time was Princess Anuki to the bank. That's when they started being on the Internet. I started using avantal's from Vintessminuki and I still do to Beza. So casting this guy was my first book. Justessminuke was kind of the formative one. I it soul from Australia. I'm going to continue to pronounce its video Ghibli because I'm not sure about the proper pronunciation and I'm sure if me as Arkey was listening to our podcast would be happy enough we discussing his films and if we can't pronounce the names correctly. The First Studio Ghibli film that I saw was spirited away. Actually saw it in two thousand and two during its Theater Quran in Australia. I was really blown away by it. At the time I would have been maybe fifteen years old and I hadn't seen much in the way of anime or animated films beyond what had come out of America, so it was really something quite different to me. It was a very striking film spirit away, because there's basically Oh guys in it. They just sort of like misguided individual so very different from your average sort of Hollywood film. And was really great about spirited away is that after it won the Oscar and got all the SPUZZ and everything, a couple of years later all of me as Arki's other films started getting shown on TV in Australia. So over the next couple of years, after two thousand and two, I would have gone through most of his filmography up until that point. Yeah, my first experience with to do give it it was also spirited away. I think at that point I had exactly the same impression of animated films as you saw it, just my association was with Disney, which have a much better impression of now as well, but at the time I always saw them as slightly more toward children and I guess not as Pectical as the works off Miasaki and Talk Hota, you know, can get. And Spirit away just blew me away because it took you into this massive, massive world and the moment I saw it, from the recommendation of so many other people around me,...

...which just couldn't believe, I hadn't seen spirited away. Yet this was just a few years after it that had come out. I started also going through all of the available films. There was just such an amazing discovery. It does lead me over to my next question, though, which is how your impression has changed, because you know, at least for me, when I first started watching these films, it was me Asaki that really won me over. I just loved his type of wonder and adventure. But lately, especially as I'm having a rushing and of these films ahead of this podcast, it is really Taka Hota that is standing out to me with his even experimentation at times, in the way he really dares to be different. So has your opinion of you give you order films that speak to you changed since you first discover them? When in some cases my opinion has changed to bits, but for the most part I'm just really a huge fan of should you give me as a whole, even the lesser films. I kind of enjoyed them anyway because I just enjoyed the style, in the mood of it, but certainly yes, as with I think most people, I started with me Asaki, as I mentioned earlier, and then discovering Takata. And, like you said, Takata he makes filmed it up just as great as me Asaki and he makes them in such different size. I mean he's a fascinating artist. I would still prefer me as ik his films overall, but I think Takata is amazing and discovering Takata was somewhat of a revelation for me, or so much later, because the foggible things I mentioned were really all I watched for when I was a kid. It was what he had on DVD and I didn't watch anything else. So all the other films I saw as an adult. Looking at how Studio Giblis change for me over the years, I did start off by generally liking them a lot and like a few, and Chris has said, expanding out to Takahata, who's actually, I think, a more consistent director overall, generally have higher writings for all of his films compared to me as Ark, has got a few hit and Mrs in there. Looking at Studio Ghibbly as a whole. Actually checked up for the PODCAST. So I've seen all the films except for ocean waves coming to them and I guess seeing them over the years, my opinion has changed a little bit. As I said before, after the successor spirited away, you had all the other Miyazaki films coming out on Australian TV, or House Moving Castle in two thousand and five of think, when it came out on DVD, and that really impressed me. I'm sorry, really, after that point for me the studio became incredibly uneven. I do like Kanyo a lot. I think it's a really good film. I'd say after House Moving Castle, outside the subsequent films, that I have quite the same magic for me as the earlier films of Studio Ghibli do. That's a big claim, soul, but I think I agree on the majority of them that do think that the last double feature between rises and Princess Cayu at that those are just so wonderful films to me that they would rank with the very, very best work in as a generalization, and I do like Takahata's Princess Film. I'm going to pronounce lay in craigs. I'm not going to try. I think it's a good film and well animated, but compared to his other films it's a weak one for him and the other than the princess film and Ponyo on say, all the other films, Post House, moving castle were disappointments to me, but I'm sure discussed that later on the podcast. We will. But I think it's in some ways has also to do with more films, not baby Asaki and Takata, which I think is generally the problem with Gibby. Yeah, I'd probably agree with that also. And Yeah, I'm sure get to that or so. Yeah, I agree as well. I think we can hold pretty much agree. I also said in my opening that the work by essentially all of the other directors associated the ways to do give you, except perhaps Conto, who died after just one film with of the heart. They just don't really stand as tall as the films by me a Sakey and Talkahata. But this before it really really dive into the origins of Ghiblee and my name is talked through. And where the fireflies? This is asking really quick question. Is Gibli the be all end all of anime? Well, I guess I would definitely say no to that, even though to me they're on their own planets. When I think of Anime, I don't think of Ghiblee. I think, you know, if I'm gellion and a Kiha and stuff like that, and to me gible even though technically it's anime, because that's just how the Japanese school animation, but it's statistically quite different right from what we think of as generally Japanese animation. So it's a be all end all in the sense that it's definitely what I love the most that I think there's plenty else to explore in Japanese animation. That's interesting, but that's not really that's related to Ghiblee, except for a few recent hotels like Memorhoo Soda. I guess it depends how you define be all end on. Likewise, I wouldn't like to turn them as the bay all and or outside of just been a lot of really great anime films out there, films like you or I am thought that was excellent. Those in interesting recent one from Netflix, quarter whisker why, which...

...isn't a perfect film but still quite interesting. There's a lot out there with anime but I think in terms of office film Goersh we put that while or people are just getting into anime. I think it's always probably going to be the starting point. Brand is just that iconic. But no, I don't think it's the endpoint, not by any stretch. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Then obviously you had Bush and Automati, with Takida, for instance, coming out at the same time as the early Ghiblay films and especially during their decline in the late Zeris. You still had Satosha com even though it died early, and he's still had Shin Kay and knowl Souda Se are and several other really great anime directors working which at that time we're matching or even doing better work than the latest. You do give it films. So definitely not the be all end all, even though they probably have made the majority of my favorite anime films. But it's interesting, though, the contrast that mature shows to strike between anime in sense of Evan Gillion and what's to do gibty makes, because it is true to an extent that the artistic style choices of the student differs so much from the often action driven more im not gonna say, juvenile but more child friendly work to the more slow composed, contemplative works that to the Ghiblie puts out. I mean, if you look at my neighbor total for instance, yes, you have magical beings in it and there's so much wonder, but they're probably not on screens more than ten fifteen minutes. The majority of the rest is just this quiet, serene tail of two girls in s nine in s Japan missing their mother. So I think that they are providing something that you didn't really see that often in the anime world. But what is really interesting, though, is that that is the world that both me Asaki and tap alta came from. I mean they both worked on so many of the television shows in s and S S Japan. If you look, go back to Takahatas very debut honor, which was about little bit of norse mythology and just this boy with some semi magical abilities, and you can really tell the difference from that and the other work in similarly with me Asaki's debut in seventy nine, I believe, which is the loop and tree film that's just tying into the show that he and Takahata worked on so they really came from that world and that's also why I think they founded studio give it, because they have been trying to make talk through for such a long time. I mean we, Saki I've been pitching it all across the eighties and just get rejected time and time again, until he finally decided like we need to put together studio, and I think it's just wonderful that they're actually able to do it and that they were able to fulfill their vision in that way and they were able to find audience for it, because that's what the bigger students at the time didn't think they would be able to get it in think that something like total could attract anyone. Yes, I think the way I think about animal it maybe as supposed to Gibli is. I don't really think of Satoshikon has being anime is. I guess I think of animals kind of the studio animation and maybe the rest of being more independent animation. I don't know if that's really corresponds to how the term is used, but definitely, as you said me is I can Takata certainly started it anime and then only did their thing when they have their own studio, and I think it's kind of true for Altho uch other as when. I think it's also interesting to note that in the early days it was actually that a heart that that was the biggest director, with mayor stalky usually being his animator. Well, talk he was the animator on this first film and he kept being his animator across a large amount of films that people just don't know where remember. Like they both worked on series of movies called the hidi movies, which I haven't been able to find anywhere, and most of their work before to do Gibili is just completely ignored, in part probably just because the quality jump is so big. There's very fuse stylistic similarities. But it is interesting, though, that these two melely tell the people worked for about twenty years before founding Stud Gib it in. They worked on so many films and shows and then on praduciasion that the essentially none of what they did before is really remembered well, even though some of it is quite good. So I haven't seen any treaty Bili Takata, but the Cassorokadiostro look in the third film. It's actually came out in theaters two years ago here and it's quite good and I think you can see elements of what years like he would do later. I don't like is as much as most of his gively work. That I think it's already quite strong and from what I understand, you guys have seen some of Takahata's films and like them as well. Yeah, I've seen Takahata's...

...hand of films. Had to go pander and pander rady days. Circus lovely films. They feel more me as archy in tone that Takahata because taker harder, I guess. Boys Graver the fireflies and only yesterday watch spring to mine and they're very lighthearted films. The pander once but they're absolutely lovely and its gorgeous relationship the little girl has with the panda. And I've also seen Garsho the cellist, which is also a pretty interesting film. All a bit about music, as you can guess based on the our title, and just they more than you would expect, I guess. Every just think of graver the fireflies, we think of Takahata, which I'm sure most people do of course. For the fellows, this such a surprising film for a film from the eighth is within this do the system. I mean it's so quiet, it so small and with the elements of minimalism, still has animals. That are some magical elements in it, but it's still feels like he's trying to do something very, very different. And the next year he also did Yaron Gucchia, which is a film I really enjoy. It's quite funny and it is actually quite similar to only yesterday, and my name is Yamadas, in that you know, it's taken from mangas and it's more of a serial set up, for we had different situation with this little girl and her father, and it plays into these characters and you starting to really get immersed in their lives. It's not as great as those later films. There's a lot more blunt, a lot more directing, its humor, etc. But it's definitely also a good showing of lot they would be able to do later. And then I suppose we should mention that no SI counta valley of the wind, is technically prettybly, even though we think of it as we can gibl film now, but it was, you know, what essentially enable them to found the studio and it's teels like a guiple film. Yeah, that's absolutely right. I made really breathes like a Gibbrie film, that you have the soundscape, the world building, the exact same power of the animation style. It's that such a strong word, though. It's really interesting, though, that part of the money from the film actually went into Takahuta creating, I believe, in almost three hour documentary about the canals in the Pan with what? I didn't know that. Oh, it's true. I haven't seen it yet. It's very hard to find, but if it there because the available, I would watch that right away. Yeah, I agree about Norsaka feeling much like a Ghibli film, and it was shining on TV down here at the same time I started showing castle on the sky and poker or so key k his delivery service. It felt like one on the same it felt like that sort of film, very strong on ecological message in there, which is also something which you find throughout a lot of me as our key's works. Yeah, one could argue that princes monok is kind of a remake of Nausika. It's very similar. Ay, okay, it's interesting. I never thought about that. I need to watch those two back to back at some point. Yeah, I mean, I guess I think of them as being very similar and one of them being sci fi and the other being fantasy. That if you think of them together, I think you see it. There's some similarities, but such a good recommendation. I'll definitely try to do that. That's interesting because I think we're named me as archie films are shown TV. The actually didn't show Princess Mo Anoky. I don't know why. They show Nausicaa, they showed Parson, the scar, the short poker, Rosso Kicks Delivery Service, but they didn't show Princess Molnarchi, Oy thing. I didn't catch up until that one, till a few years later, most likely because it's much, much more violent, even though SICA, which has war, doesn't have arms going off. You know, that's a good point, because, though, because they'll mark you doing it on TV, like from the Director of spirited away, in like big letters. So they probably wanted fine films are sort of like similar in tone. Yeah, and with that I think we really should start diving into the double feature. I did so many ways brought ghibly to life, even though, of course, the very first studio give you feel worth castle in the sky, which I'm sure they'll talk a little bit about as well. But in one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight, and in part just because expectations for pop that all was so low. Shockingly, though it was originally box office failure, they show to release. My neighbor taught through and grave the fireflies at the same time, and this it boggles the mind that they taught that. This was a fitting double feature. You have one which is just this largely bright and wonderful world of well wonder and then you have one of the most depressing and heartbreaking and the film stuff just all time and in all the animation history, most likely both of them focusing on siblings. But in one you know starting from the very beginning knowing they will die this horrible horrible debts and you know in the other one there's the feeling a kind of happiness. So it's just like I can't imagine what...

...the audience would feel coming into these two films and especially which order they would watch them. And so let me ask you the like. Which one do you want to talk about a little bit first? Do you want to start with the happiness or with sorrow and despair. Well, actually I'd like to talk about the aspect of the double feature because I'm going to defend gively a little bit here. I'm just think commercially it makes your sense to release them together because, as you said, they're very different tonally. But I do think of them as being with are sides of the same coin, because I think they're most looking in the way at the inner sense of childhood. You know, you have touch of which is this very joyous film. It looks at childhood mostly positively, but also has this underlying layer of sadness and scariness. Right, the idea that when your child you're not in control of anything. Stuff is going on over your head and you're vaguely aware of it, but it can be very scary, and that's what's happening with the mother's Innes right, and at some point it causes another children to really freak out. And so it's a mostly extremely joyous extremely celebrating the imagination and the innocence of childhood, but with that sadness underneath, with that scaliness underneath. And I think whether the fly flies is the exact reverse. But it's terrible situation. It's awful. It's extremely erratic. But the whole point is that the all the brother is trying to preserve that innocence of Childhood in his sister and in doing that there are weird moments of joy and beauty in great fireflies that we call the similar moments in total. It's just that it's those little moments inside a mostly very tragic story and I think in a sense total is all about celebrating that innocence. But we are fireflies. is where you go wrong when you try to stay in that innocence, when the world around you just isn't adapted to that. And so I think they're actually a very fitting double feature artistically, if not commercially. Yeah, I like what you said, Matthew, about them being a fitting double feature. I probably agree with that, not to speakcause they're about childhood, but they're also about all who would imagination in a way with the tottero creatures. The girls see them and they're told like they're lucky to see spirits and they sort of exist because you see their imagination, even though we're don't know whether they really exist or not. It's a bit of a blur and there it's what about the imagination and then in grave of the fire flies it's about trying to use that imagination, but in a more, let's say, adverse setting, so, you know, starving for food and tries to get a sister to imagine that different things are bits of food. Both films for mere films about childhood imagination, but on different side of the spectrums. But I remember most about both films I was just how striking they are, an amazing I just love the colors in grave of the fireflies. It's really striking. It sort of like the film where don't think if it was live action they could actually get the colors quite as perfect as they do there. And with toto that's just all these longdistant shots where it actually could be live action, because the bushes that just agree and re all looks incredibly realistic. So they do make for a fitting combination. No, I agree completely there, and that's also just a message to the Han and the world that this is what do you give it actually in compasses and the type that there they can bring to life. And I think it's also interesting how different these two films are visually, which plays into the emotional spectrum as well, where you see total with all of these pairly bright colors. You have this beautiful serenity. Well, in Gree of the fireflies, the poet is a lot darker, you know, even have these scenes in almost complete read. But I also completely agree that even with these stylistic differences, a great the fireflies really does manage to bring so much childlike wonder to life, and these scenes in between the horror are absolutely beautiful and lovely and you see the bonding, you see the happen as and you see the hope. But of course all of this is the with the knowledge from that opening scene that they will both die, will both end so, so terribly. So there's just this melancholy following all of this childlike wonder and all of this joint imagination as well. That, like that knowledge, is always there painting the entire film. Yeah, and I'd let you add, regarding what's said about imagination, that it's definitely connection. I actually agree especially with the title of Goover of the fireflies. I mean the fireflies in question are the bombs. It's exactly that. It's exactly in a terrible situation, imagination letting you see something else and then in touch all in a quite her easier situation. Also, that's imagination taking over, with the classic idea that's only the chldren can...

...see the imaginary creatures. The one thing I really love about toto is the fact that total and notice team tootro as it is comment with down off screen later. But but all of these creature are shown so rarely and that the magical elements, again our sounds, so rarely that, yes, so much anticipation built up that you again really become excited when you see all the totals, especially put through himself, if you will. Like the few moments and he is on screen, is like everything brightens up, everything really becomes magical. It really proves, at least to me, that does this holding back, not showing your key character, having these down buildups, can really really work. Essentially, feel the same sense of wonder when tatter comes on screen as the children does. Yeah, I agree. It's definitely a wonderful sense and all the senses of the world, and it's also a thing that go on me. I think I would count it as my favorite me as I key on given thing. But when I first saw it, I was sixteen or seventeen and I kind of dismissed it. I thought was kind of a kiddy flame for children and I liked it fine that I was really disappointed coming off mono key and spitch away, and when I watched it later as an adult I kind of got it. I think it's a film that speaks to children and adults, maybe not so much to teenagers, and I think that is the way with so many kid if the way you see them will, in one way or another change. I came into talk through the first time from spirit of the way as well, and there was also a slight let down them, probably because if you look at spirit of the way, there's so much excess in how the spirits are shown that you really get to explore this world, while in total they're always at a distance. There's so rarely seen that it's like night and day and it's like they've been spoiled by all of this other imagination that was to come later. But seeing it separately in its own context like it is that anticipation that really makes it work. Then again, looking at the chronologically, it almost feels a little bit as well that spirit of the way is a kind of successor to talk through, which is takes a completely different approach. Yes, speech it away is more of a say Ting. I always saw it as kind of a Japanese version of Addis in wonder, and I think this is something also in that with only version of the digi mermaid. I think maybe it's something we can talk about. Is How there is a Western influence on Ghil. People often talk about Ghibli as being this very specific cultural Japanese at fact that I actually think that it's real blend of western influences with an these kind of traditional lifestyle. Oh, I think that's very, very clear. It's completely you're completely right. Matter, especially in me Asaki's films. A little bit less in Takahata, that would argue, but you mention nows in older than I think that's also really interesting thing because so many people, me included, see a lot of follows, the mobile and parallels in my neighbor total as well. Obviously the cat bus, which really looks like the cat from house and overland to the point that it means Arku literally came out and said no, this is based on traditional ideas of Cassie the path. I wasn't actually inspired bells and vonder land, which is really interesting because even the way the totals are discovered, you you see the little girl literally following this white little totalal into, you know, away from a home and into this magical land, so that there are several little parallels there which funny, I never thought about it, but you're right. They are definity pout its and the cat bust if he has that Seshire cat's grin, even if it's not too actually inspired. To Jem back on what you said about Takata. All right, when I talk about that blend of Japanese and Western, I think I agree that Takata is much more uniquely Japanese. I think Gibli has an esthetic that is very influenced by nears Aki. Think the other filmmakers have tended to imitate or at least walking me, as I ki footsteps. But really it's not so much a studio with an idea of itself as much as place where two artists got to do their thing. And so Takahata has been doing this thing. Why be as I has been doings. That's so incredibly true as well. It's really shows in the film that we are Saki and Takahata shows to do after this double feature. Where we are. Saki started to work with all of these fantastic worlds. Takata, with exception of POMP POCO, started to Dell into a kind of realism instead of making magical worlds feel more natural, more real in the way Mayasaki did. What Tacohatada it was make reality seem a little bit...

...more magical if you look, instead of good spirits, magical monsters. His next film, after way of the fires life, we're just about memories of a young girl in the s and herself as a more adult woman trying to find herself in the S, and just this very slow composed work of selfdiscovery and humanity with FA was obviously a little bit real by pop book, which I'm sure we talk a little bit about later, and well then followed up by my neighbors. They am adults, which I would argue one of the best studio gibing films off all time. It just has this completely different style to it. At this point that Hata doesn't even care about the full extent of his screen, like so much of it is just white. He lets these characters live in this essentially feels like a child's drawing and that's how the entire film stars. Is this little girl drowing her grandmother, blaming how destroying it. And then there's the style of the entire film, which, of course, I gain this was from a comic strip in a newspaper. This coupling in the same kind of stuff. That is love, the fact that we just entering into this childlike world with a shylike animation style. It is captures the very mundane moments SOM and Dan that when I saw it the first time I was a bit dismissive. I didn't get fully caught up in it, but rediscovering it and is feeling the power of how different it wasn't how that Hout them managed to bring this tiny moments, I think, lost in the shopping mall or discussing what to eat or grades, and turn it into something that large and spectacular. I mean it's truly shows a true artist I really love my neighbor is the madest by Chris. I thought the animation style was very striking, with all the white space and the watercolors and the images sort of seamlessly blending into each other. I thought it was an excellent animation style. I really soon in it because it's a series of vignettes rather than just, you know, a narrative in there. I would have liked the daughter who got the family lost. Would have liked to have a bit more screen time in there, but I just thought it was just so strikingly done it and if you look at only yesterday also, that's also got a cold different animations styles and there or the present day and for her memories, and it's just really interesting what Takahara does. They with a different styles and that's even more true with pomp Polko. With pomp poker you've got these raccoons and the raccoons can transform into anything. It's some sort of our they have, I think, in Japanese mythology or folklore, I'm not sure the correct term for it. You see the raccoons are very realistically and then you see them extremely car to like, and you also see them in between. And just the way he mailed so many animation styles together. It's just such an amazing film to look at and it's also incredibly funny film. POMP poker. I mean wouldn't think it if you think about only yesterday or grave of the fireflies, but pomp polko sort of the Takahata from the pander go panda films, like humor in there, but also very strong ecological message, which is something which I guess you'd see a lot in a lot of studio Ghibli films, especially the ones for me as archy. I think what I love about Takata is his winningness to experiments and especially in terms of a mission state, as you said, my neighbors do Yeama does in particular. Is the thing that is only like any other given film, really not just in how it looks but also what it's about. Right. This comings with with updatent. It's very late. It's, as you said, non narrative. I mean it's just sketches. It's completely delightful and I actually have it's but it's not just doesn't look like any other gible film, even on the yesterday, it's also different statistically. Right. This kind of what I colors side from the memories. But it's about environmentalism, which is maybe the central theme of almost all gible fens. I mean it's almost always present, except maybe in the Yamadas, and POM POCO is the most overtly critical film about that. I didn't think of from book as being that different. Statistically, I think you're right with the transformations, but I think it's generally looks more like the Asaki film than something like on the yesterday to me. Yeah, I agree, and that's also why it's so different. In talcaholt does filmography as well, especially filmography add to the Ghibli because he was always working in the way. In the contrast, do me a Sarky a bit like is the ink is Yang, because from the very beginning to the very end, he presented search a stylistic difference, with completely different focuses and choices, and with the pomp poco. He does have that kind of childlike wonder again, the kind of things is so often associate with me Asaki, even though this one thing I really...

...can't get over in God, that is still the source of their magical powers, which is, and this is even all that you can say this on are that this is a children's film, but the things that the raccoons do with their pestical such growths, like it, that's all the takes of the also makes the feel seem a little bit childish, and you without it be, at least the first time I saw it then. I haven't actually gone back to it, since it is just the fact that know, they flying with their literal scroll terms and they're don't bring on their testicles and it's just this is so, so odd to see. You know, I had heard about that way be forcing the film, so I was kind of ready for it. But when you watch the film, it's actually very it comes up very naturally, like a three quarters of the weight with him, because it's still about very start. Yeah, when you describe it, it sounds completely insane and it's kind of insane, but not maybe does as much as it sounds. And say that year, if your head forwards a that and saying because, like I think, all the top comments on letter box for pomp poke or about the testicles. But I want once she to get over there. Whatever, once you expecting it, it's not really it's part of the film. Fair enough. I really should be watched it because like that it came completely em expected. I really can believe about that. was washing them and just treat to the point about contrasting. It's funny, by the way, that made up the Yamadas, which is probably the lightest, most overtly comedic film in all of his Philmography came just after me, as like he made his darkert film in my Lukie, contrasting all the way. I think also this contrasting of styles in the heart of throw dimensioned work really wonderful. In My name is Yama about, because one thing I noticed, and the one thing I really loved about it, is that the amount of details increases and decreases based on the focus at a all the wants us to see or the emotions he wants us to feel. Some more fleeting moments, like someone just going off to work or school, essentially anything but defense and some flowers maybe just be completely white. It does not drawn in at all. Well, in more realistic seems, like when the girl gets lost, you see a much larger scope of the shopping mall, in the streets, etc. And this of course leads into one of the most dramatic line access as well, which is a moment of quite a lot of fear in the father. He goes to confront some young hooligans, essentially, and the animations all is completely changeous, like gone or the more childlike animations. The streets completely detailed, the watercolors are so much darker. It's just a completely different wision. That is keeps going in that scene. Everything looks so different, so much bleaker, until something happens at a bit more comical and the style starts to change again. But it's just so interesting that the all the uses different animated styles in the same film to really get our emotions engaged in set the mood and it just works so incredibly well. Yeah, he gets out of that scene by basically doing a superhero parody, which goes back to that's tight and also in only yesterday he uses that kind of much kind of let's clear style for memories, which obviously makes sense because memories are firs. He's really willing to use form to serve the contents, which me as Ikey. It's not that he always does the same thing. I think she does quite different things. You know, you have something completely ethic like Monoque, as opposed to something that he intimates like a touchal. So I think he has quite a range as well, but not as much in terms of form. His films always look in a certain style, which is gorgeous, but always similar. Yeah, that's really really true. Like if you look at any of his films, like from those Mossica and on. They really look and feel almost the same, even with all the technical changes and studio give it did go into digital developments as well with the Amados and spirit of the way, but the visual stund really stay the same and you can really feel when it is the miasaki film, or actually maybe not, you talked about it's a little bit later. But if you look at a lot of the if you don't mind the crass words, imposters or, you know, the people trying to the people trying to pick up the mantle after him and Studio Ghibli, you also feel the same thing. Like if you look at our yet differences, you can kind of feel like, oh, the really trying to still utilize the miasaki style, but it's just so interesting that just kept the same ritual style well, developing different teams that you mentioned, Princess Vonlock. It really gets violent and he also have films that bordered much more on realism. Oddly enough, I don't think he ever did a completely normal, if you will, drama until the wind rises and we sho'll discuss at the very end, but he did make films like my neighbor to total, which are a lot closer to life, and also it's next film after that, which was Porco...

Rosso, which he has to protect a little pig who's also a pilot. But you can essentially feel, both with the animation style and the scope of the plot, that had you made him into a regular human being and had it be a more normal human drama like the mid rises, it would still have work. So it does have these more toned down, more realistic stories as well in him, but he would of course always shoe selene on the more magical. I'm not sure I would call BOC also turned down that. It's true that there's a big difference in that it's amage to old ty wood films. I mean that's something that you don't see in any other me as I can fim, but it's clearly the idea of POC also right, you have this noir essentially. Well, not with your noir, but there's kind of elements of that with the bar and with the Omens that's kind of unfulfilled between the protagonists. It is different. I don't think I would necessarily talk about it as being that much more realistic. I would agree that a Kahara has definitely very star quid, but as filmography, where as me, as our key's pretty much tied the same, and I also agree the a pill try to imitate the Mesarchi style, no doubt due to the success and also the brilliants of spirited away and I guess a lot of films, for I could try to like tap into that whole magical welds thing again, which might lead us into some of the other directors who's worked for Video Ghibla. You can think about films like Ariatti, based on the borrowers, or films like the cat returns. Yeah, let's talk about those impostors, which I think for the defense. One of them is literally named Me Asaki, so I think he has a right to well, yes to let's me a Sarki, without anyone mentioning anything and having heard any booth of it at all. The Lesser Measarti go to a Sarti will actually be releasing a film this year from Studio Ghibli and again entered a single thing about it for almost at the end of the year. I think it's coming out in December. Yeah, no bus, no words. I think it's quite to be eating that going me as a key's first film, there's from a see, it starts with young, the first kid, kidding his father, who is this very wise older Hula. I think there's something that you know where it started like that, I was I was very, very helpful, and then the kind of disappointed. Yeah, as this they was a big disappointment. I went into it knowing those meant to be a stir Ghibblie's worse film or weak as right a while IDB even expecting it to not be that good. I found it extremely suffer and still managed to suppoint me. And it's not so much that the narrative of isn't that interesting and well, it isn't really that interesting. The villain is, you know, it's a pretty average MEGLOMANIAC, formulaic motivations. The animation was actually extremely supporting for me. The film said in two or through locations. It's not really the big worlds were used to see against duo Ghibli and a lot of backgrounds are actually pretty static, like the UNMOVING backgrounds, and I guess you don't see that in all of the studio Ghibli fields death. There a lot of them. Things are constantly moving the background, things are going on. There's a lot of it seemed really flat on Earth See. So that we disappointed me from an animation style and a story point of view. I probably disliked from up on Poppy Hill more, which was borrows film they did five years after that, and that one over there. Actually didn't mind the animation. Actually thought the animation was good. I thought the music was good. The story, though, was just, you know, there was nothing to it. Helping to save our clubhouse while felling in love with a shy classmate. I mean there was a bit of conflict in there. I mean she starts to wonder if she could be related to a new crush, but the mystery of it's never that entire segment fixing up of the clubhouse was like it s comedy subplot. There was an eva day montage secreence in there, which is just like well, those you up company Bond Tags. I don't know on the end of it or was just like kind of card where this is a studio give we feel but feels nothing like in any way. And that that direction, like the animation and that one, compared to Earth See. I mean I think that animasion is really what saves from up the hill. I mean really great to look at and I also thought it was a brave choice because we have his father making all of these great big magical world and here he is making this little story from the S and I think this is something that we could theoretically have seen Takahata that into as well. It's also the broad fort is very normal stories from this pass including the S, and give them a lot of visual poetry and beauty and elevated them. I mean there's there's nothing over workley incredible about the stories from...

...only yesterday and my neighbor is Yamadas. It's really just the way he's presenting these little things, in the way he's elevating these things, and that's just not something that guru was able to do. Is Not structured an interesting way, it is not really elevating what is happening there with the animated animation style. It looks great, it's a perfectly pleasant film. It just doesn't have anything extra to offer. There's nothing else under the hood and I think that's really is greatest weakness. Really he'd really does doesn't know how to bring that Magic to his work. Yes, think pleasant is the exact world I would use describe that. Firm like enjoy it I don't think the show is that bad, but it's not that interesting either, and it looks really good. And Yeah, that's not that much more to say about it. It's, I'm interesting in the in the sense that it's kind of goal beazaki saying, all right, just do something in the style of my father. Fine, but aside from that it's not super interesting. I'm a little more interested in the films of the Homa Sa Yunibayashi, who did a he ti and when money was there, and I actually think the latter, when money was there, is my favorite non Measaki no Takata film, and that Gippley has done. It's different. It's more of a drama. Actually. Of all the gible films I think it's the one that blends the western material because it's lepped from British book, I believe, with Japanese setting, the best, I think, even better than house moving castle, which I think is me as like his week at film and it also is this this coming of age story which is we see in a lot of gible films. But it does feel different, more internal. There's no obvious adventure and there's something else about it which I think is something new for Gibley, which is there's a bit of a hint of homosexual relationship maybe or awakening. I mean it's a little modeled by the whole story, which is the complicated, but I think there was something and when money was there, that could have been promising for Ghibley. That could have been something new and in the end they kind of missed out on it because you Neibayashi is now working for his own studio. I think it's kind of a testament of how GIB ends up just being me as Aki and Kata, and once he is like, he's gone. I think you would be done. It's interesting to hear discussed when Morney was there and praise it quite heavily, because I didn't like it that much. I agree about the homosexuality, although I actually thought it was quite pronounced. I thought it was just the way they kept saying how much they love each other, the way they were embracing I thought it pretty much added to be a lesbian love story, which I thought, okay, this is pretty cool, this is very out there and very different for studio Ghibbli. But then the way that it twists the story around with this complex mythology which I don't think I could really reveal without spoiling the film too much. But yeah, basically doesn't make a lot of sense and it raises a lot more questions. That adds as it actually gives everything a bit of a creepy vibe. So I thought they animation was absolutely beautiful in when Marnie was there just some striking colors for the skies and the characters framed against them. There's one shot which is like beer on titanic which is just excellently done. Animation was beautiful. With the story a really got to me and the more I think about it, the more than a particularly like it. I agree it's it, but not that I think it works in the sense that she's also a creative psion might do main character, and so to me I interpreted as being most fictional. But I agree that the film is that it's all muddled indut respect. Yeah, model was the exactly where do without use. I think there was a film with a lot of the promise and it has a lot of beauty, but at least for me, that the story and the twist, et Cetera, is it just modeled everything up so much that it was a bit of a middling disappointment and it was essentially the film that kind of killed off to the Ghibliz attempt. That raising other directors as well. Like after that point it was really just the end with Dakahata and Maya Suky's final films and then this just long, long lull. Though, if we're talking about and we are she, I do actually think your idea. It was his superior film because, well, in love, it told them have love to the GIBBERTY. That is not measukingda cal days whisper from the heart. But out of the latter films, I think I yet this a one that really manages to capture does this wonder and especially in the animation, you just have the smaller moments when Mariet this just a climbing or stepping out on the bit of Puddle of water, for instance. You really just feel the beauty in the animation right there. So that that's the film of the later to give the field. That was not directed by a socket a Culta that stood out to me. A RIETTI is definitely interesting film because it's got a lot of the Gibli magic in there, just with the source material there and yeah, just some interesting ways that she liked hopes with the giant world around her, like bugs or as...

...large as pets, and she came out them into bouncy balls. What I didn't like about areas, which is very, very different from a lot of me as Arki films. A last is that there actually is an evil antigonist in this. The Boys K give or a house keeper or whatever, is like this evil character wants to exterminate the borrowers or whatever they caught in the film, and I didn't like that aspect of it because what I liked about a lot of other gudio guibi films is that nobody in there is completely evil or just maybe MIS guiden or why. I definitely agree on on that point. I think it's a weak point in a heat. Just to respond to quiz a bit, I like whisper of the heart and I like a yt I think there was lovely films, but they do feel derivative to me of me as I ki side. Specifically, even though there are differences, I think we spoke of the heart specifically. There's some great sequences, like when she follows the cats at the start of the film, but you know later you have the fantasy sequence with the statuette, and that kind of feels like an obligatory insertion to fit into the Ghibli cannon to me, and I think when money was there, even though I agree it's imperfect, for me, it works emotionally. I think what it brings is that it does feel different. And you said it was the end of people trying to nurse new filmmakers right, and I think they'll never really tried actually, and I think there's an example of that with memo, who soda, the Guy who then directed wolf children and me high and stuff like that. He was actually rejected from Gib and I think you look at his films and they really feel like what Lee could have been in the twenty a century, right after me, as I can Takata. So I think they just never really intended to let anyone ends do their thing. Really, I might just jump in there on a couple of things. So whist for the heart. Yeah, I agree with fantasy stuff on the cat was really excellent. It was probably my favorite out of the film, but overall probably prefer the cut returns, which came out, I think, seven years later, which is sort of a bit of a spinoff of spur from the heart. It's bit a variation that outs and wonderland following the cut around. I thought that was really good and I also do agree that Wolf children is an amazing film and it does seem a shame that studio gubbly wouldn't take on a direct take of a duce something as magical and wondrous and really affecting as a coming of age tail as Wolf Children is. I know I want to see the cutter terms. It's one of the two with ocean waves I haven't seen. I think ocean waves is the one that most people just haven't seen. It's actually one of the few other studio gibing films that don't dull into magic. Is just at this very small little drama story that's perfectly delightful but doesn't really do much else. I would absolutely recommended that for anyone who loves to do give it it. Get that in there, because it's nice to have it. But it was also the first film and until good orso film this yeah, only TV film. So it's does this much, much smaller work. Interesting to hear. I have ad ocean waves and watched on DVD, as I've performed previous podcast, I got a large range of unwatched DVD's films from no officialist on I check movies, which is probably helped to become a low priority, but I'm sure get around to ocean waves eventually. Yeah, this it is very sad that. Do you give it a we didn't try to develop directors and makes the digimion thing that would last. I mean, I guess poult a mass occuent. I think the only one that could have had a shot would have been usually from Condo, who was the director off with Brat, who at the time was seeing and believe to be the air apparent, but he died for it could even make his second film, and a lot of people even blamed Takahata for essentially driving him to be stepped with all of the extreme acquirements. That's you do give it had at the time, and we all know that animation studios have very intense for practices. So it's just all said, I've never really saw any other great artists develop, even though you know they actually obviously do. Punock may be able to bring some of that magic to life, but diving into what was originally seen as the Swan Song of Studio Ghibli Definale, the two great minds of you do give it once again joining up for a double feature and slightly all the tragic thing had been that in two thousand and thirteen it was fourteen years since Takaha dos previous film. My neighbor, mdults N Ninety Ninety had for such long time been his last film. He had been working on the tail of Princess Kaguya for eight years. At this point there's really struggling through this process and it ended up becoming this race where they want to release them at the very same time. But that hell of the...

...spite having much bigger head start for me a sky, just couldn't finish it at the same time, and it was looks likely later in two thousand and thirteen. But still this swan song was as beautiful and Pohadic and once again contrasting as you might imagine. And interestingly, once again the roles flipped, with me Asaki creating his first, as I said earlier, more ordinary drama. Of course it's not ordinary. There's absolutely fantastic dream sequences in here, but this is an actual biography of a real human being, no elements of work magic. And we are set in the period from World War One till the end of World War to. Meanwhile, Takahata went back into mythology and pre it did this beautiful old story of a princess coming down from the sky, or from the moon to be specific, discovered by bamboo cutter, and just this little beautiful magical moments as she brought up into a princess and is pours into situation she's just not comfortable with. And here again the style is completely different from anything we have seen from ALCOHATA. It almost looked more like the kind of minimalistic French animation is sometimes it's just beautiful, such a wonderful attention to detail, just time in one small seem to prove this. And what so, if you may not know, is that Takahata really hated one of the pyotal scenes in gray of the fireflies where the young boy cuts open and melon. He just didn't think it looked realistic enough. It didn't think it's sliced correctly enough. So in a scene in the tailor Princess Caga, you are where a young boy toss open and melon, he actually would bring this fruit into the studio with several knives and how the animator practice and practice and practice to get this right, which just seems ridiculous given just how minimalistic, how light that Maation is there. But he still wanted that cut to feel real, to whichhould make it also again. This show. Is why this field or eight years to produce. So let's die right into these two films that I know this will get a little bit contentious. So what we are your first actions to seeing these two films? So the town of Princess Euja pro pronouncing correctly. I really love Takahata's animation style there. I thought the hand drawn frames are incredibly effective and there's a specially their secrets where she goes for a nighttime run. All the lines around her sorely together. As a story itself, though, I thought it had a few weaknesses in and there, for a few things that didn't quite add up to me, some things about the parents having the wealth to move to the city or the suitors returning within a week of each other after being away for three years. However, it is very well done as an animated film. It is beautiful to look at, but it's probably my least favorite Takaharta film and have given all of his films seven out of ten or more on IMDB, so I do like them all, but this is probably my least favorite one. So as a unal film for Studio, give me a one of the final films together with and Mani was there, which I also didn't love. Devoy weekend for me, but I do agree the animation styles incredibly effective. If the wind rises, I do have to object to what Chris has said. So yeah, he's going to get controversial. I think that is over magic in the wind rises and I actually think it's the number one most interesting aspect of the film, because the film begins with him having a surreal dream which he interacts with an Italian plane engineer and the plane engineer insist that he is the one who's dreaming, though I know maybe it's not over magic. Five it is a little bit of fantasy, maybe, like the Italian engineer might be having this dream that he's sharing with the Japanese engineer. I don't know, but I just thought that was the best part of the film at the Italian Guy Pops a little bit later a few points and he mentors the protagonist. I absolutely love those scenes. The rest of the film most sadly didn't do much for me, and I love me as archy. When it gets into the magic, when he gets into the fantasy, the dream see, which is the fantasy sequences, absolutely love them. But the drama stuff, you know, there's some romantic Melo drama, there's some social misfit moments, there's some...

...debating about design and killing machines, but nothing was ever as interesting for me as this guy's having these dreams about this engineer is mentoring along the way, and I would have loved that to be the focus of the film rather than all the Romatic Melo drama stuff. And also some stuff with wife which, from what I've read, actually isn't true to the person or the film was based on, which maybe shown imply it to my estimation of it. Yeah, just everything put all together, it was a disappointment for me. Win Rises is probably but no staff play bottom three, but it's probably my least favorite me as Arky film, it's definitely a bond three for me and with that one and with Princess Kaja being my least favorite taker harder and when Marny was there doing my head in. That's why sort of get that argument that studio. You'll be sort of aided in my estimation, towards the end of their time the spotlight. So it's an interesting double feature because it's not really a double a feature. They were supposed to come together because it was, I guess, an occasion and it didn't ended up not working out. A suggested anyone interested in this seeing the Kingdom of dooms and manners, which is documentary made around that time when they were both supposed to be released, and when you see kind of the working environment at Gibe with me, as I keep being this really strict taskmaster and Takata being offscreen doing things, kind of being out of control. I mean it's not really much in the film, but it's kind of interesting to get a sense of both the vectors personalities there. I don't think the films have that much to do with each other, but I personally love Kagoya. It's actually my favorite Takata, just ahead of fireflies. Part of it, of course, is the style. It is unbelievably beautiful. The scene you mentioned soul when she runs away from the city and when, all of the as we said, the light become lines. I think that's just great. That's just amazing and I found the film very, very touching, very emotionally all take out of films basically made me cry, which I don't cry much at movies. I think the hatter has something special there. And Yeah, Kaguya, I see it also, and I'm not sure this is really what was intended, but I see it also kind of as a criticism of Buddhism and of this idea of disconnecting yourself from the world. And at the end she's but I guess it's boilers for Kaguya and at the end she's, you know, taken back to the moon, because it's a very sad film in that sense. Right, it's a story of the failure. It's a fairy tale, but not with a fairy tale ending, or maybe with a classic fairy tight end and re adding the wind rises. That's an interesting point you make, soul. I admit I did not think of it at all as fantasy. To me, it just is a biopic with dream sequences, which happens all the time, and it's not necessarily considered fantasy. I think it's an interesting point you make, with both of the characters having the dream at the same time. Maybe that's kind of fantastical elements, but it did not really feel to me that way. The window rises is not one of my favorite me as I Kis, but I think it's a fascinating film because it's obviously they personal. One of the things we haven't talked about is with the name Giblie. It comes from a plane at Italian plane, because we ASAKI was fascinated with planes when he was a kid and certainly his fascination with for Ying shows up in all of his films basically, and even in some other gible things. I mean Caguia has a pretty prominent flying scene and yeah, the wind rises is is really interesting in that it's so personal for him. I think it's him trying to reckon with his love for this man who was designing the CEO airplane, right, this very famous airplane from World War Two, and me as like he's a pacifist. That's another thing we haven't talked about that much, but it's also present in his films like especially House Moving Castle and cast in the sky, and this is him kind of trying to reconcile both of those things, and I think that's both of strength and the weakness of the film. Strength because it's just a very interesting thing. I think the whole scene where the main character goes to this retreat and has this conversation, which actually, to your points Al, kind of feels fantastical. It kind of feels that he's going to some sort of magical land to talk with the ghost or something like that. I think this whole scene is great, but I think in the end the film feels a little like trying to apologize for it. I mean the central quote of the film, right the poverty. He quote, the wind rises and we must try to live. It's kind of a well, the world is difficult, you do what you can. I think there's a bit of a weak resolution there, but it is a gorgeous film. Also, I think the earthquake sequence is particularly notable in terms of animation. So to me it's not disappointment. It's not my favorite music a film by in the stretch. It's not close, but it is a film that I find at least very interesting and quite utual for and generally we like, even though I have some point, I will give Saul my agreement of one point. Dream sequences do add in a lot of the magic and beauty and wonder that studio give it...

...is known for. But me, as with material, these were really just dream sequences, even though they do play around with this idea that book men can be dreaming. At the same time they do add in this really magical connection and these dreams from the very beginning. That's just about this passion of flight. His Passion of flying something that you've seen in Mea Saki's work from the very beginning and in this man just loves aircrafts. You can feel it. They're all the way back to Losaka, and I mean watched castle in the sky just a few days ago. It's opens up in the air and just immediately you believe it because of the soundscape, which is one of the things that you haven't talked about here, that just the soundscape of so many of Melsoky's films are so immersive, so real, and he really focus in on how each and every single form of aircraft sounds. And this time completely back to the wind rises, where you see the experimentation with the flights and see them testing out different planes. You can really feel how they drive and how they flow and it blends into this narrative of magic and wonder. It's really like Yasaki, wants you to feel the same wonder that he feels about planes and that in the very real character of Ye Hito her she, he tries to channel the same kind of wander he has for aircrafts into Yeo Orycor she. This tipes it with both but your said as well about this reflection of the film how it portrays what a Kuchi, because throughout this film is very clear he is not interested in war. He laments the fact that these planes have to have weapons in them. It makes it clear time and time again he prefer planes to be for transport and pleasure. And in the dreams with Caproni, the Italian engineer, you can see that this is dream both of them have. But in a very perotal early scene which is set in the dream during the end of one, Kaproni tells him a sort of essentially the moral of the story, in a way where comprobably asks him would you rather live in every pyramids or without them, and essentially saying that even though planes can so much mayhem and destruction, to be horrible to live in a world without planes. So it's really just this wonder, no matter what they may do, and it's doesn't this driving force that he seems completely oblivious and uncaring about what he's taking aret off, even to the point that I without spoiling anything, there is one seen closer to the end where he that means the fact that, you know, his planes that went out war was so beautiful, but none of them came back. And he can said because it's real story, but but that's the limitation, like that's what they said about the fact that the comeback is not said about what these planes actually did. I think this is one of the things that Missaki, as a pacifist, trying to show put, of course, in such a great light and go to show his passion, also stumbled upon something that is quite interesting. It is definitely an interesting dynamic which film brings up, in that would it be better, terver, well without planes at all? I don't know how that much of an opinion on it, because I don't necessarily conform to traditional values in terms of morality, but definitely on letter box, still some very heat of discussions. Very he reviews about this point in saying or all the guy just does. In case wants to build the planes anyway and if they have to be used for war, fun there to be used for a least to get to build his planes. So I can understand why some people see a bit of a mixed message in there. I don't really mind it that much, I guess from my point of Ye I just found all of the romantic melodrama and being a social misfit and everything you are too, really dull for me compared to the dream sequences. One thing I want to mention about that is the main performance. I mean, I'm assuming we all watching the films sub and the guy who does the voice acting for for the main character in doing rises is a Hideaki I know, who's better known as the creator of in Vangelium and who actually worked for me Asaki when he was young. I think he worked on NUSICA and he has this very he's carry not an actor. Let's just say that I think his performance works, but it's very dispassionate, very monotone, and I think it kind of gives this impression that this is a man who's very disconnected from the world and so he sees his plans as being this work of art, this his reason for existing. I think that's also something that Miyazaki relates to very strongly. In this character all of...

...the is, like his films are all about finding yourself. Who Work to you know what you can do in life. Even you look at spirited away, what really makes her grow as a character is working in the bath house, and I think that's also that element that's there and that interacts with with this performance that is very dispassionate. I think it is a morally complex film. I don't think it's impossible. Certainly I think that are definitely thinks to criticize, but it is engaging with those ideas, which is what I think makes it too valuable. So No, I completely agree with that. It's very true that that is the choice that we're talking made when he brought the character to life, that is, as someone who is that displaced from the current situation, just loves plays so much and really doesn't seem to completely grasps the full world around him, and it's always working, is always striving for this passion, even as you know, his wife is very sick that there's a scene with he's in great emotional termal is on a train to see her and you can still see him working, you know, with tears dripping down on this paper. It's a very interesting portrayal. It's very it's very human portrayal and I think the first time I saw this film it actually became instantly my favorite me as key. It's not anymore, but the first time I saw it I really got caught up in these personal elements of the story. I think they work so very well. Even though that romance and that character and it is, you know, his own limitations, it did become a very emotionally sharsh film, which does make it a very interesting filming contrast to Princess Karguya, because here the realism is far more thrift back. If we can talk about the win nices as one of me a Sarkist, most realistic and most heartfelt films. I'm not sure if all of you would agree with that, but it's I do think that is one of his main aims with the film. At least, Princess Kluia feels far closer to poetry and beauty, and that's does not just the style. From a store a perspective. Is Quite odd, for instance, that you know all of these suitors will all come back within a couple of weeks of each other after a three years. That's also one of the more traditional fairytale elements that's tied into hair, because it is in so many ways, you know, a fair tale, the moral tail and this form of pot it that supposed to say and mean a lot more. And before I said the conversation over to I really wanted to go back to what ice mentioned previously with the scene where she runs away and the animation style completely changes. It's becomes more hectic, extentially becomes sketches. It's just rough print from this beautiful Softmasian rougher and rougher and rougher prints. We know this black lines being drawn as if in Sharkole. I thought it was such a wonderful contrast with the Yamadas because in the Amadas you see Takahata Turn Drum more realistic animation style when he tries to make us feel emotional, where this simple shildlike style, this becomes this for more power form or realistic, dark scene in a moment of personal turmoil. In Princess Kaguya it's the exact opposite. But they also manages to see that the same thing let us feel emotional turmal by changing style at this time the completely opposite direction. In this turning it into this beer bold emotions, and you can really feel these emotions with those shark whole strokes. Why? It's just really present the way he can test, once again, group our emotions by just completely changing the way he animates his films. Yeah, I don't have much truth to that. I think I agree with what you said about that scene. What think I would point out between those two films is they're both really about characters who feel displaced in the world. Kago, yeah, literally is not from this world and, as we said, Jeho is kind of disconnected because he is this artist who doesn't want to engage with the realities of the early twenty century. So I think that's another point between them, even though, yes, the very different in that one is a third day and the other is literally a Bibic. And I do think that with Kaguya there's interesting dynamic and messaging where you have this princess coming from the moon and being raised by this whole farmers and that she just gets all of this excess from the Moon, you know, the Baboo cutor just keeps finding treasures such as mammy beautiful linings, and he decides to change her life and to take this girl growing up in nature, in graph free and taking her to the big city and giving her all this luxury, in this this hope, a belief of making her happy, talking about this greatest happiness, the greatest happiness being not being able...

...to live. Essentially, she's instantly trained being lady was not the be allowed to stand and grow defeat. Is literally forced to sit down. So it's literally forced to do all of these activities that she does not enjoy at all. All the time the father just keeps going on about this wonderful happiness with the greatest happiness is getting married, the greatest happiness is this and this and this, and you could see and feel her heart breaking because it's just goes against her entire being in everything she wants to do. You really just have this contrast once again, of nature and Pre Edom and humanity verses all of these stilted customs and it is just such a wonderful parable it's so many ways and I think with animation style, which is shorts to see it did, and just a beautiful finale as well, it really is running from one of the Howda's best worked. Yeah, it really feels to me like a Buddhist tragedy because, as you said, she's born in nature and society, which has the ideas that are influenced by Buddhism, and that's how she is essentially training to be a lady. Right, this whole idea of being as an emotion known as possible, that this is religiously significant, and maybe you can see Takata's point as being that it's completely missing the point, right, that's what she's actually meant to be, is to be tread. The whole point of that religion is to free yourself from the world, and I think that's where it's a little bit of a criticism of that religion as well, because of that philosophy, because in the end, what the film wants clearly for her is to go back to a certain sense of nature, not to be disconnected from the world, and that's what happens to her at the end. So it's kind of a cricism of both ideas, right, the idea of material materialism, essentially, as you said, all the things that I've bought by this magical thing happening at the start, but also a criticism of wanting to completely disconnect from the world, to avoid suffering and desires. At least that's how I reach it. And with this swan songs to the GIBBERTY was meant two more or less be done. They were going to keep open they museum. They did provide work on the Red Turtle, in which it was actually tough heart. I was involved as a producer and you can see some similarities to his work. But this was essentially the end, until it wasn't without anyone actually caring, which is quite quite sad. Kudo we are Sukey, is really saying here wig and the which there's still a little bit of a future. But what do you think there is a future after Miss Sukey is gone? And do you think these will be the final films from Studio Gibberty? Sadly, I just don't. I think they missed the boots on some younger talents and they just chose to remain the me Asaki and Takahata studio. I'm looking forward to me ASAKI is most likely final film, but I think I really will live on only in the form of the museum, which is great and stuff like that. So, but you know, we all often think of it as being the Japanese Disney, but I think it just was never that's it to us, only the studio for these two great artists, and that's all it's ever going to be. I think we might see a revival of studio Ghibli in the future. Studios like Hammer, the British student which made all the horror films and the fifties and S. they've gone through a couple of revivals. I might be a revival but it wouldn't be quite the same. He is quite interesting with me as key that he keeps saying that each film will be here as last film. So who knows if the next one will be. But he's not the only director is going down that pathway. I mean Steven Soderberg instantly springs to mind. He said that side effects was going to be his last film and it was going to only work in television because he hated the film process. But he's made a number of feature films, said side effects, and loach has come out of retirement to do by Daniel Blake and then to carry on do sorry, we missed you. Even horror directors like Hershel Gordon Lewis and just come back an your thirty years later and started doing more horror film so I think, if you know me as a heating this to live, I think you'll continue to make our films. He might getting to say there is last but I'm sure you'll continue in making them. And all, it's his time and me as key is turning eighty. But I mean you have of course seen directors there and nine t s, even some working into their hundreds. So it is absolutely possible that me Azarki will make in all the film after this. I did look a little bit into his next film, which is called how do you literally? I think it's interesting that the film subscription is simply the film depicts the psychological growth of a teenage boy to interactions with his friends and uncle,...

...and that the animation style, at least on the cover and so of the screen shots I could find, actually looks quite a bit like Takahatas work. So you have a right anxious I'm not sure if that's how they will actually look in the end, but it does seem like another fitting souls on in the way like it would really be a wonderful goodbye, but obviously it's far too early the process to be sure of what it will be. Yeah, just to add on me as a key's retirement, I don't think he will ever willfully retire. I think his first retirement was actually when Condo died, so that was after a mooning. Okay, so over twenty years ago. I don't think it will ever will fully retire. But he is getting old and I think, you know, he probably won't make that many more films, I would expect, to add the most, because it takes some time. Yeah, I don't believe in his retamonds anymore than in the ones of all those people you mentioned. So and just think we just won't get that many more films from him. Yeah, unfortunate plan. I think you're completely right there, Matt. You so let's hope you can finish this one. Perhaps they will be even more to come, and I saw mentioned you never know. It's Studio Ghibberty, like the so many great directors working in their Pan Right now in anime, and if studio gibty was market it easily hook one of those talents in and stay alive. But it's really hard to speculate this, really hard to know where they will go in the future. It's just with such an iconic brand which has brought us so many beautiful films, even though essentially any film not made by hi I'm Asaki and it's out, Alcoholta just weren't that great. Will be sad to see the go and with that said, I think we will have to say goodbye to this episode of wonderful talking about Studio Ghibli both of you. Today we watching several of the films leading up to this episode and this covering a lot of the matching at Studio Gibberty has to offer. There's just so many wonderful worlds, so many wonderful styles, and the contrast between yes, akin alcohol Ti is just, I would say, perfect. They complete each other in so many incredible ways. And, with that said, thank you so much for listening and please durence again soon. You have been listening to talking images, official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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