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Talking Images

Episode 52 · 4 months ago

Sequels That Are Better Than the Original

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Are sequels almost exclusively soulless cash-ins we should not be excited about, or do many truly deliver? In this episode, we look at the sequels that, at least according to us, did the unthinkable in becoming even better than the first film! How do you feel about our choices?

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone, I'm Chris and in today's episode we are going to talk about continuation, repetition and the rationality and desperate attempts to cash in on previous success. I'm talking, of course, about sequels, or at least how many see them and talk about them, and it's not sad. Why is it that you seem to continue to build, explore or the revelop a character or a world is seen with so much disdain? Why is it seen us an original, and why our sequels not seen as exciting continuations coming from the Creator's need to tell or explore more, to take us in new places or to spell behind us once again? While sequels obviously keep making big bucks at the box office and franchises pick up and normal stan basis, there does appear to be a collective perception, at least, of critics wagging their fingers at a distance, or sequels just never worked it, or their waste of time, a waste of talent. Well, will disagree quite strongly on that. In this episode we will look at the sequels. We don't just think are good, acceptable or great. We look at sequels we believe are better than the so called originals, and try to figure out just why sequels have gotten such a terrible reputation. And to do this, I'm joined and my three absolutely wonderful go holst Tom. Hi, this is Tom. I'm really looking forward to discussing the stigma around sequels today. So I this is soul from Australia, and yes, I'm also interested in discussing this topic because I actually consider quite a few sequels to be stronger than the original and mature. Hi. Everyone. So, everyone, if I asked you, the name on the one film, the best sequel of all time, if you will, what is it and is it actually better than the original? Okay, so this is a question that's been spinning around in my mind for a number of weeks until I finally realized that I had the perfect example one of my favorite films every recent years, which I believe I've mentioned on that podcast previously. It's blade runner two thousand and forty nine. I absolutely love this film. I think it's a brilliant sequel that builds upon the ideas in the original and takes it in a new direction to deliver it to a new generation of audiences. Whilst I think that blade running, the original, is a classic and it's revered for all the right reasons, bleed on a two thousand and forty nine just steps it up a notch and do something else. For me, the combination of the visuals, the incredible music, the way the storyline unfolds, it just really hit the spot for me and I think it's a brilliant example of it a sequel that is better than the original. My choice for the greatest sequel of all time might be a surprising one, but if you know me, it's actually not surprising. The movie I'm thinking of is scream to pray, and sequel to the original scream movie. What I like about it, like Tom said, with the blade run a sequel. It's a film that builds on everything in the original and expands on it even more. But what's really great about scream too, and what it's really relevant to this podcast, is that it's a sequel about sequels and about sequels in the industry, and you have lady running off these rules for sequels, all of the rules scream to actually does end up following, except for the rule that sequel suck. That's actually a pretty good film. Yeah, everything in it from the opening scene, which is a little bit of a film within a film. You actually have the original scream film which where's craven has redone and reshop and made him two stabs. You've got the original film as a film withinside this film. And then there's a murder that takes place inside the cinema and all the patrons just think it's part of the show. It's a lot like the Lamberto Barber Film Demons, where these people are so immersed and what the watch don't realize that a murderous taking place, all this horrors taking place, and just from there just like totally gets off the whole thing. It's a very funny ride, as all the screen films are. There's a great mystery driving it. As per all of the screen films, when you re watch it it just gets more and more interesting, knowing who ghost faces and, in...

...particular, looking how go s face and scream to tries to throw the people off the sense. So yeah, I just love the film. I think I've seen it eight times now. I don't know if it's better than the original scream. It's not a scary which is why I tends right. The first screen film is hot higher up, but I'd say it's on par with the first screen film. I'm going to cheat because thenly my favorite sequel would be done at the dead total fin but I don't really think of it, I a sequel. I actually even saw it twice. A note of the living dead end little. I mean technically it's a sequel, but there's no characters and coming. Really the only thing they have in coming is Zombier bookhop's going on, which at the time was specific to m all but now has become such a basic genre and it doesn't really feel like a secret watching it now. So my endswer is going to be a more just in cractic one, and that's the second a stakes of and Nobodys, maybe you're familiar with the comic. It's a classic of French Belgian Comic Books, I guess, and they have been adapted into big films because they're very popular in France. And the first one is okay, it's kind of funny, but the second one, you some Clo Pat Mission to a patter, is honestly a classic of French comedy. Might be my I think it is my favorite French comedy of all time. It has this comic book feeling in terms of the visual language it uses. It's filled with references, with a bunch of things. It's kind of mails the comedic takes of the original material with the sensibility of Annashaba, who was a very famous comedian in France in the S and well today. And Yeah, it's just just extremely funny. Kind of goes everywhere. It uses the medium of film in creative ways as well as paying amage to the sort of material and really builds on what was still keeping some of the things that made the first thing a success and I don't definitely like as much a name. These the main characters. And Yeah, it's by my favorite sequel of all time. If we're looking videos of there to see quel rather than the film taking place in the same universe. I ask Matthew a question before we move on. Go ahead. You mentioned liking door the deal lot and look, I've watched it, I think, three times now, and always films I just don't get. What's interesting is that Daniel Bannon made his own sa cool to not living dead with returnabal living dead. In s e. everything is played up as a comedy. It's really funny, it's really out there. Special effects are using. It's the first film which actually had zombies crying out for brains and I actually consider that one to be superior to night of the living dead and fun. If you haven't seen it, I think none of the dead also has some comedy units. It is both kind of such equal and an adventure film, really a kind of a few have all kind of thing with people in the in the secreted blazing having to defend against me, against other people. There's a bit of comedy and dawn and I would like the zombies going about or whatever, like they're shopping and based on their like basic instincts and like just wandering around the morning is a bit of comedy. But return the living dead is an outright comedy which I thought was a really great example of a sequel, though, and it's not really a seek what sort of a sequel that just takes either living down and just do something completely different with it to make it something more interesting. And I'm wondering if Tom's got anything say about return the living dead, because I know he's a horror fan. Yeah, I agree, we're turn the living dead. Is it is a great comedy. As you said. It's played far more ful laughs than dawn in the dead because it's doing the dead is actually quite creepy in some parts. But I actually think day of the dad's also worth mentioning. Is a great sequel as well. There I didn't if a digressing and Delvin into this a bit early, but yeah, there's some great sequels in the living dead series. You know. I Love Day of the dead and the whole idea of trying to retrain the Zombie and get them to like being normal again, and also gets slammed a lot. But I love diary of the Dad of what those really in invited with everything I can online. But we are probably going a little bit off topic. Well, we're quite on topic really with the this going through this franchise line and seeing everything that could be mentioned there, which is rich is sections, and I do agree that all of the dead is a better film, but I think the first two or three films in that series really do stand up as well. Not for my favorite sequel of all time, I think I'm in a bit of a tie. So the easiest one would be one that sold disapprea. I'm quite strongly which would be godfather part two, but since we keep talking about maybe doing a gold pother podcast, I leave that be, especially because it's essentially the same quality range as the first. So instead I'll talk a little bit about in the Mood for love, which was some corrice s equel to days of being wild, and I think the reason why it's so much better than the first film in my opinion, and some of you might disagree, it's that it does takes it in a completely different direction. I...

...mean might shine is obviously the same character and while to the shop was in the first film, I think the changing it so completely, making it all about this idea of love and this almost loop of love and poetry and romance. I think in the middle full of it from those films you really feel that passion and you feel it's so strongly and it's focuses in on that, whereas there's been, well was, I'm not going to say conventional formal Kai but it is more of a normal love story with crime elements, etcetera thrown in. This think that in the Mood for love takes the characters and takes in a completely different direction and it doesn't even feel like a sequel. Not Talking about that. Leading up to this many people have completely forgotten it was a sequel. So I really think it we flow. Its one those films that stands on its own. It's obviously considered one of the greatest films of all time as well by a lot of critics. So I think that's one of the few films that kind of has, along with godfather part two, has beaten this reputation of sequels being worse in original and, in a bit of an ironic twist, a suppose, almost erasing the first film a little bit and making people hesitate to call it a sequel just because it is so spectacular. I want to be this wire being one being the waste, because I actually like it better than in the mood front of I did not think of them as a sequels, I guess. Yeah, we we talked about it earlier, Chris. I think I saw in the mood for the first I thought they were part of a trilogy, but more like a thematic spirituality which had every different moods and I guess the language mood of kind of passionate mood also of days of being wild. Is moder nice kid and the really repression in the mood front of yeah, I like both. The original, in this case in the Mood for love, is a beautiful film. I've seen it two or three times over the years and it's like one my second favorite film of Ears Thousand and obviously one of the best films of the decade. And I had no idea at all that it was a sequel until Chris said that it would be talking about in this podcast. I'm like what really, it's a sequel. I haven't seen eyes of being wild. It's all of those films that our own and I've just never got around to watching. I know that two thousand and four six or two thousand and forty six, whatever is a secret it in the mood for love, but I know idea in the mood for Los a sequel self. Yeah, I guess it does kind of stand on its own that I've seen it two or three times and I no idea that also film coming before and it works so well. I just love the music in and I love the are looks at it. A lots photography, but yeah, no idea it all it was a sequel. And then to set a little bit more I thought I could also bring up two thousand and forty six, because two thousand and forty six is also better than I so being wild in my at least, and it ties in what matter talked about with temple, because this one is essentially much more a sequel to in the Mood for love as well, because twenty long character Seaumowan was barely in the first film. I mean he was really just in the ending, setting him up for in Mo for love in a way, and here it's really all about him and they'reminiscing about death fair in the Mood for love and essentially tying it in with a sci Fi story is writing at the same time, and it's just so visually spectacular, it's so trippy, it's gorgeous, it's bizarre, it's creative and it just has a completely different temple, completely different experience, and I think each of these films could really be seen that after standalone film, but they do echo each other and they do carry the same characters along all three films. I think all three films are also quite beautiful, even though, unlike almost every other trilogy, I prefer this Tacond and third film over their first film. And to get back to Tom Favorite a sequel. I agree with him. I Love Blade runner two thousand and forty nine and I don't even actually like the original all that much. I think of you internord of the film where we are focused on the one character. I just don't think decade is a very interesting character and at the end we finally meet someone interesting. He gives a great monolog and then the film is over. Sign No, glade runner is amazing. It's visually is it's quite remarkable, but I think they don't. A two thousand and forty ninety tore me is just much better. I think the show is more interesting, though. Central characters much more interesting and yeah, I absolutely over Suder. But that's very interesting me here because, like Matthew, I don't really like played runner that much. I've seen it we two or three, maybe even four times over the years. I've no idea which cuts I've seen, because beings no different versions. One of them was the one with the voiceover whatever, which is the parent of the worst heart. But Yeah, look, I've never really been into blide runner and the sequels announced, I noticed that. You know then a billion view, if I'm pronounced that correctly, was subructive behind and love a looted all of his other films, but just being a blader on a film and then I'm like, well, maybe I should watch the original first. And what I can't be Ballard watching the original...

...for the fourth or fifth time. So I've never gone around to the sequel, but it's really interesting to hear guys talk about it as being better than the original. So maybe I will check out the blader on a sequel one day. You really should definitely and the just just for information. It's the easy note. He will any French pronunciation that you always have to go use. I'll just add myself in on the fact that the blade under sequel actually is more or less on par with the first one for me as well, and it's a completely different atmosphere. I think it's visually spectacular. Definitely recommend it to anyone, even if they didn't love the first film. It's it takes in a different as different direction as well, so definitely something I'd recommend. And I have actually seen matures favorite sequel as well, Asterix and Clair Patra, or a mission Clippotra as they called it, because these films were massive in all way when I was growing up and I probably saw all of the Asterix noblix films until that was like, well, at least so big. It was a very big fan. I can't remember much of them now, but I was a huge, huge fan of the Strix noblix movies. So, yeah, this wanted to throw that out there, that it was not just confined to France. I'm very intrigued by the Strix Nobulix, maybe because when I was growing up I used to read all of the comics and did actually have asterix in Britain, the film on Vhs. That was a car to month, but I've never seen any in the life adaptation one. So to here you keep some praise and it like that matter you. I'm very entreated to give it a will and see if it brings back happy memories. Are Reading the cartoons and I was younger. I do want to stress that the second one is really the one worth watching, the live action, live action. There's also always a live action trial. Talking about animation films, never mind. So there's also animation films which are really basically straights adaptations of the coming books. They don't really changed much most of them, and everyty good. But now I'm talking about the direction ones. Most of them are not great. The first one is kind of okay. I've action was, but the second one is yet to me to me absolutely great like they did. To know. I haven't seen any of the live action once, I think, but I might give this a try them and then you don't need to see the first one really if you're familiar with the sakes in the readings from the cartoons, can just work the second one. Is it the same story as a strict in Clapaltrat animate the one, or is it the different? I mean there's kind of the basics, but but it goes in kind of different ways. It depends a lot more than the animated adaptations. Very good. So, having talked a little bit about these sequels that we love so much, everything stand out. That's even better than the first film. Why do you think sequels have gotten such a bad name for themselves? There's a lot of pressure that comes with making sequels, particularly if the original filmmakers aren't involved in the future projects. There can be a lot of anticipation for follow up film from the audiences and again that that just kind of adds to the pressure and I think that's one of the things that comes into play with audience and expectations when they're going to sequel, that there's going to be a feeling of disappointment that it can't live up to the original. And, as you mentioned in the introduction, Chris, there's a lot of sequels that are just churned out for purposes of making money and these don't consider the artistic side of putting forward such a project. One thing that I think is it a good example is, for instance, the clover field franchise, where films that are not initially penders clover field projects just have the clover field name attached to it and a few actors is filmed at a later stage to make the film appeal to a wider audience because it's got that name attached. That was moderately successful with ten clover field lane. That wasn't bad for your film, but the Weirdo's was just an awful sci fi film. If it didn't have the clover field name on it probably would have just languished at the bottom of Netflix is catalog for a long time, hardly been seen by anyone. But because they put the cloth field name on it, they pushed it. It's that kind of betrayal. Audiences are coming to expect something great and they're not getting that, and I think this has been going on for quite some time in the history of films. Oh yes, it's hatches that stigma to the idea of a sequel, but it's actually got me really thinking about the earlier conversation about the Living Dad series and the return of the living dead, which is more of an official entree, because obviously the Italians did this as well. Obviously there was Sambie two and so be three from Loos Fulsi was just they were created essentially as sequels to nothing like they were meant to be sequels to the living that's this. Like the first two, it doesn't exist.

It's some bet some be three. So I think that's that's probably just the most known example. If a call correcul are, others as well, they kind of just pretend that they're sequels to popular American films. It's very interesting to hear to bring up the example of ten clover field line because I was called the word clover field and the tile, but until I was running out reviews of the film after watching it, I didn't realize it also sequel. A clover field and I didn't see clover field until, I don't know, a year or a couple of years later. I actually prefer ten clover field line. I just really love the whole premise of being inside the banker not knowing whether or not something's really going on outside. And I think would trailer caught me or the TV spot or whatever it was. And Yeah, as soon as the ILAND DVD I was watching it, but I had no idea that it was a sequel. But yeah, that's sort of marketings interesting because those also thinking of the unfriended films. I almost or my sequel that's the best or better than the original. I was almost going to bring up unfriended dark web, but but the thing is that it's not a sequel to unfriended. It doesn't even have the same supernatural concept. The only concept that's the same as a whole idea of seeing one computer screen. But you know movies like searching and the den or whatever have done that also, so it's not the only film to get that. But yeah, the whole thing was market on the unfriended name, which is a bit of a shame because there's a lot of people, including Chris, when I was talking about films. They're my best for two thousand and eighteen. Saying that you know it's ever going to watch on friend of Dark Web, and I guess a lot of people are so shattered friend of dark web with the original unfriended. But it's not a supernatural horror film. It's more down to Earth horror film. Getting back to the topic on hand, like Tom was saying, I think money does play a role there. I think wise sequels have such a bad name, is that because of the money attached to it and the fact that there's so much investment and it has to pay off? I think because of that we have a situation where a lot of filmmakers are just trying to up the anti the whole time and they're not actually thinking about generating an interesting storyline. So it's most sequels out there. They either try and outdo the original or they try and remake and copy the original, whereas the best sequels out there try and do something different. Yeah, I think it's interesting. Just a quickly some place to Durend Coiffin Lan, which I will so we like and also saw without seeing clue the film. I still haven't seen to a fit that you hear I should probably should at some points. I shouldn't turn so law on that, but I M I don't really like Whiteverfield, but I think found footage film. So that's why. Anyway, carry on. But I think it's interesting that, like the two sequels I chose, both very different from their original. And you mentioned the same thing. You mentioned so that you think that the best sequels are the one that are really different from the original. But in a sense that's kind of cheating. I mean I agree to a point, but in some ways I like Tom's and so better. But because I because I think glade one, no, two thousand and forty nine is a great film that managers to really be the sequel to really is in the spirits of the original him in the same tone, in the same kind of visual universe, and I think that's very difficult to do. And you you asked, but Chris, why people had sequels? Obviously the commercial aspects has something to do with it. Right people see sequels and franchises in general as being really he's in the just cash cows. But it's also just because it's very difficult to do the same thing better. It's kind of easier to go in a different direction, you can someone agenates the original funds. So I guess there's a high difficulty, high degree of difficulty, to making a sequel. I guess it's my answer, but I think the best sequels do carry on the same characters and sign storyline but, like something like scream, to takes it in a completely different direction. I think that's quite beautifully put. Then it's often the case in this to add two time close field lane. I think that's what I'm swear, just like so people, while watching it, wondering is this actually a sequel? Is this is it real? Is it real because it has chlorophilling in the name? Is that the spoiler already? I never really get too much for a chloro field franchise, if you will, I didn't really know. They will say that it has much better acting and production values than the first, even though the original color field is white. They good fun for this film. It might be in that we haven't seen it since it came out. Jumping on to my next question, which perhaps got a little bit more personal. When you hear that the film you love, that you personally love, is getting a sequel, what is your reaction? I'm usually very dubious. As will come to discuss a podcast, the number of great sequels is massively outweighed by the number of bad sequels. So, judging by those odds, I'm always unsure if the sequels you're going to leave a bad taste in the mouth and just wipe out...

...what was great about the original. Sometimes it depend on who is involved in making the sequel and maybe a little more open to it and a little more excited about it, like with blade running two thousand and forty nine, because the NY Villeneuve. I love all of his previous work. So I was excited about that because of who is involved. But yeah, usually I'm sitting on the dubious side if there's a sequel being made to a film that I love and the really speaking, unlike Tom, I actually get quite excited and the sequels made to a film that I love, I don't go into it expecting it to be better. But, like Tom said, if the same people are involved in it, especially the same cast members, so I can carry on those character art or those character progressions are yeah I get excited, get very excited for it. You know, I loved our oceans thirteen when it came out on a crime. Wait for oceans fourteen and of course that never eventuated and oceans eight comes out and you know, I really want oceans nine to come out, but I don't know if it will, because oceans I wasn't the big runaway success all expecting. But there's probably more with comedy series like the oceans films are more lighthearted ones. Are things like the hangover films. If a sequels made, and that I got, that could be really interesting, especially if they're attained much of the original cast. But I would say probably more so with maybe dramas and maybe older, more classic films, I get a bit more cautious or a bit more dubious. Like Tom said. Ever, a sequel's coming out and look in general I don't expect to take away my enjoyment. I am definitely very dervous about this stream five that's coming out. He is going to have the original cast members back, which is excellent, because the way they progress over this source for films absolutely beautiful. I'd love to see him to continue to progress. But the directors behind it made ready or not, which is in a particularly, in my opinion, grade horror film, and I'm gonna like, what are they gonna do the screams franchise? But it's not going to destroy my joy. I mento of the original four films that we're St Cripe and did so. I don't know if I'll see at the first week it comes out, but I definitely will say scream five. So I guess a little bit of Dubiousness, but I guess also I just get really excited because always as possibility it's going to take things further, especially when I films got really great characters and has done really great things with previous entries in the series. I generally try to keep my expectations in check. I tried very hard not to have expectations for films are announced because I don't want to be disappointed, I guess, and it's so often unreasonable to have expectations. But I guess a recent example would be knives out, which was within my love and I was quite happy to learn that there was a sequel. Maybe part of it is because it's kind of very open ended. The sequel is just one character in common. In this case. I think I'm maybe lit an more skeptical or when it's really a continuation of the story, especially if I think the story was fine as it was. Yeah, I'll be looking forward to that secret awesome. So yeah, I guess I try to be newsual. I can't always be newful, but try to be. I try not to put too much of a burden on the FIM that's coming out because I think it's often unfair the way people reacted to see Queens. That's a good point about the continuation of knives out, because if it is just focusing on the one character rather than a continuation of a story that is kind of contained in the first film, then it opens up a lot of potential and a lot of possibilities for where the story can go. So it's not just an extension of the storyline that has been tagged on after the first film was successful. It's potentially another self contained storyline but with the similar characters, and I'd be more open and interested about that because again, it you know the possibilities, they're a much more promising. I think I'm more in line with mature here in that I try to be neutral. I'm a Fu can neutral, but I think my reaction to seequals are very much in my reaction to new films is that I look at the directors, I look at the actors, I look at the buffle, look at the idea behind it and if that guys, if that looks to be good, I'll probably get excited. If it doesn't, I might not even watch it. I mean, if it's a film I love and it's a completely different director, different cast, is just really clear cash and I probably won't watch it at all. And I'm usually not tied to a franchise. So, for instance, even if I would like the first film or second film and even the third film, I might not continue if something disrupts it. For instance, I still haven't seen alien covenant. I have no real interest in doing so. I think it's really just up to the film itself, though if I were to really want to see some standout sequel later, I would probably force myself to watch everything leading up to that point, though again it really depends on what type of sequel it is. One thing I'd add actually about white sequels are just like it is. Often people mentioned...

...that it diminishes the original thing for them when the sequel is as good, and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that sequels often they try to take the best elements of the original and capturize on that by doing it Atro, and that's often a mistake, because some things work better in small doses. And I guess that's one additional difficulty of making good sequels. It's knowing to take the best elements without overdoing them. Again, just how to degree with difficulty and so and people get very angry when they don't work. On the topic of this, taking some elements and working on them. This really reminded me of a French trilogy where last film is actually my favorite, starting with the Spanish apartment and leading all the way to snise puzzle in two thousand and thirteen. So I'm going over a bit of a decade and following kind of the same characters or these three films. But I think this is one of those cases where you have the first film which is kind of it's Bicydick, capitch and clay complete. Yeah, and it's in up playful, it's fast. It's just trying to be as fast as possible with movements, trying to be a little bit close with with the camera, but it's really just, you know, another young adult, such teen comedy. It's fun. It's good and it made me see the sequel as well, but neither of those film really stand out as spectacular or great. However, in the last film in it really shaps and he's puzzle when the characters are well into their s rather than early s and they have children and they have real lives. And you have some of the same elements in playing with the speed and playing with the narrator, etc. And having some fun with it, but it just feels more adult. The emotions feel more real. It keeps element really working. First one actually made it better in the last one because it's just not thrown in that almost at random just to be fun. That actually adds something to the personalities and add something to the storytelling. So I think that's one of the few times, for me at least, that you know, elements that worked in the first one that weren't great were done a lot better in in a sequel. That's interesting, Chris, because the suspend, the first one in this turgy was a big favorite of mine when I was a teenager. I watched the second one and wasn't study first and never were. The second is a mess. Yeah, and I never watched that one because of that and recently we visited you, which you know, and thought it was okay but not that great. So, yeah, I guess I kind of given up on that, but maybe I will watch soone at one point now because, yeah, I hadn't heard that it was notably different or better. I mean it takes the same elements but it's it's actually more adult. The characters feel a little bit more real and things kind of fun and play. So I think it's just took the best elements made him work the slightly different way. That that's that's what I can say say for it, without really getting into it. I mean it has the same like I said, it has most of the same characters, it has the same kind of real they are one thing. Who Ends up with WHO, all of that stuff. But for me it work better than the two previous at least, and I guess I should have picked up on this earlier, but it was mentioned that sequels can harm the film that came before, as in generally hurt your impression of it. Has this ever happened? Do you ever seen the sequel to film you loved and for some reason it changed something so tremendously that your appreciation for the first decreased. Absolutely never. I have a hard time understanding why the or billy Christ for anyone. Different films, the different entities, and if I didn't like the sequel when I rewatched the original, I just wouldn't really watch the sequel aft with. So know it's never happened to me. Yeah, it's not something that's happened to me. You know, you're able to separate these films in your mind, separate entities. So I've never had that disappointment way in on on my thoughts about the original. Yeah, I don't think so either. I think that different films. I don't know, I mean it can't hurt the original film. I do of him is bad. Maybe it's the other way one. Actually, maybe it's the second thing is but better than the first thing. Looks got of less good and compasion. I can't think of an example. Anyway, I can't think of an example either, and no really affective it because I do see them as different films and I've been trying to think of why this would be. I suppose maybe if the second or tward film change is something in the story or changes who are characters. Maybe if they make a character but loved him to a kill aller or someone evil. or it goes back and it's changes. Food did something. Maybe it would change that. We see them, but the eye can't really think of a good reason. Perhaps it's simply is that they see sequels almost like some people you TV shows, in that if something really stupid happened in one of them, we kind of diminishes the whole series. But you know, I can't really speak for this demographical people who say, I feel destroy their childhood. That said all that,...

...they are off sequels as series and obviously a franchises, which it's all around us now. If you love or if you know have a strong interest in the franchise, do go out of your way to see every single film within that franchise? I would say that I do. Yes, a great example this would be the alien franchise that you mentioned earlier, Chris, because you've not seen alien covenant and I know that the quality of the later films doesn't live up to the originals, but I'm so invested in their franchise and where it's going that I just can't wait to see what what happens next. Basically, regardless of WHO's involved, whether it's more of it a spinoff than a continuation the storyline like in Prometheus. I just think it's a wonderful universe and the storyline really appeals to me. So I'm excited to see where it goes next. I think for me it would vary from franchise to franchise. If I'm really enjoying the franchise, that yeah, I'll seek them all out of quality drops are usually wouldn't, although lately I found out with my letter box that's that. It tells me if I've got a completely collection. I was recentally watching at the xmen films, which sort of peak in two thousand and fourteen with days of future past. The ones beyond that we're really crap, and I'm thinking now what, why did I bo bother watching them? And I look at through my letter box stats and says I complete the xmen collection. I'm going yes, sir, I watched Dark Phoenix for reason. Oh Yeah, yeah, I know it's funny that you mentioned that because I grew up loving the xmen franchise. It came along at the right time for me a twise, you know, as a teenager in the fish few came out and I was watching all of the films, but I haven't seen dark phoenix because, like you said, the quality drops off and I did just eventually lose interest. So it shows that even a franchise that you grow up loving can distance itself from some members of the audience if the quality continues to drop like that. And I think to the point of the here is that did the expen franchise. I completely agree with soul that. You know, the quality top the self in two thousand and forty with days the future past, and they kind of again with logan in two thousand and seventeen. And I had seen all of these films up until that point, but I never cared to see the Ark Phoenix because of the views that got, the general impression that was coming out from everyone seeing it. So I think that shows just how quickly I will just drop a series or a franchise that. Did you see apocalypse, Chris, because that's one is also termo it is yes, I saw apocalypse and I guess that helped. I think that helped my pocision to not, don't continue. So apocalypse and I'm like CINIX CA't be worthless now because I didn't like apocol it t yeah, I saw a pockalyps and that was enough to convince me not to watch. That means, and it's such a sad thing too, because, like this is a franchise that really managed to pick itself up. I mean they already went into the abyss like the only this cell almost self destroy themselves, especially with the same story line, almost Indian know, the turn xmen film. So it's just weirdly they wanted to repeat their own failures. Just to get back to the question about wanting to complete franchise as or not, I definitely gets souls satisfaction, as you know, the completionist substraction of Oh, I've seen it all, even if it comes in the form of, you know, letter box of Pixels, and sometimes I do that. I also think it's kind of interesting to just culturally kind of to see a old franchise. Like over the past year I've been very slowly working my way through the James Bond terms and I'm not halfway through what are more so, I'm not that I'm basically halfway. Who I think and yeah, I you know, the a lot of things in there that I don't like, but I think it to be satisfying to have seen them up, but I also don't really do it's all the time watching all the things in the franchise. We mentioned the X men. I know the hobits haves in the first one. That was enough for me. So it really depends on how wing to said I am in having that satisfaction of having seen you talk. Look, I'm not really that big and dissatisfaction or sort of like. Those are Sci fi challenge going on on the ICM forum and I had most of the film's already in my collection as ex friend was or whatever over over the years, and they're all official checks because you're on the box office list. So I'm like something, I need to do it in actually did generally know I'm not much of a completest. I mean I've found that even with the wards on I checked movies on. I've any clatnum award, so I've never been much of a completist. It was just with this xmen franchise and like I'm going to get through this, but in general no, that's some really loving the franchise or whatever than I would. But I guess it's one of the horror ones like the scream already mentioned or not burn a ELM street of seeing all of them. But were things like alien.

If really Scott does another one after covement, I'm not going to see it. I think it's really good reviews. I'm not going to see it because that's serious. It's gone so far downhill. Well, yeah, I alien. I think Alian is you kind of interesting franchise in that way, in the sense that all of the films are quite different. A size I understand, because I only have seen the first two ones, but the first two are quite different, but the first one being a whole thing and the second one more of an action film. It brings to mind to me one of the better sequels of all, which is teen eight or two, which does the same thing right, with the first term nator being power and the second one being action. And Similarly, I have never felt compelled to watch any other terminator film, Not for a good reason, as while I mean they have and you don't have to do it, really shouldn't. Oh No, I really like Jensis. Seem to get slam so much when dark, fake can ever be. I was like, Oh, we hated genesis. James Cameron hated genesis or whatever. I've seen genesis a couple of times. It's just really clever. It's like back to the future part two, where they go and they try and like intercept the original timeline that we saw on the first time and I had a film. I know it's not great, great film, but Genesis is definitely, for me, the best of the term. They to see calls after t one and T two. All right, that's the one I haven't seen. So I would say this. If you say it's like back to the future, about too that's not a great argument. Form of I'm about really wow. Okay, definitely weakest one. You know what's the hottest take? I have is that it's actually my favorite of the whole trilogy. But we maybe look. Okay, come up in this it has appell us. Tell us right now. What is it makes the turn back to the future is the film where the best. I think it's probably comes down to the fact that I really hate the ending of the first back to the future one. I think the ending is really this his they basically the main character. He gets a car and that's his big victory. That's kind of overly to me, as it's a very crush very ahs very reaguant America and I be younger like that. Like the same of all, but to me it really images diminishes the film. I don't like the second one because it's kind of a mess to me and the way some of the character that you did really a problem for me. And the third one, I get why people don't like it as much, but it's very much more focused on characters. It's more laid back and I guess I really like that vibe and I like my son's it's kind of a fun adventure in the western I understand why people don't like it. This it is like as much because it's kind of slights, but it's the one. Yeah, it's the one I enjoy the most by far. Because of those reasons, I like all three of the back to the feature films and I think you hit the nail on the head to a why the the last one is such a good film, but I do find it interesting. I never expected you to say it was down to the end and that's a very interesting take. Typically, I I do like the first it's you know, it has a bunch of things going for it. It's very funny, but the ending, those diminishtions and I think looking at franchises in general, what type of films is it in the franchises that usually stand out to you as the best? Because, at least to me, I mean, franchises are really weird phenomenal now which are kind of like shows but not really. And as you all know, in TV shows the first one is really the best, and I think that's also quite clear in these franchises. The first films these franchis are often just created to set something up or to be a building stone. There are exceptions, of course. I suppose iron man was boat meant to be a pest and the stand longe film if the test didn't work. But what is your favorite film from like, let's say, the Marvel Franchise? And why? My favorite film from the end, you would be the avengers first one. I guess it's interesting. You bring a TV and the marvel, the mcu is really an interesting kind of experiments in something that is between TV and cinema, and I think it's interesting because it's obviously something that's happening more and more and also seems even sequels to each other. It's kind of a whole kind of worms to open. It is as interest end game the seventeen sequel to iron man? I mean it would really feel that way. Or is it the third sequel to the avengers? We gets it to a point where the definition of what the sequel is is is kind of changing because of those films and because of those massive universes. Yes, through through everything. The two answer to your original question about them generally getting worse over time franchises I actually really like of interest and game it would be my second favorite, I think you know, and it does have those quality of TV you mentioned interview. The first episode is not the best and eventually game really has that quality of the season finale or series final really building up to everything that's gotten before, and so that's what makes it emotionally satisfying. So it has that advantage of the faction. I think it's really fascinating. In the mcu has a bunch of problems and it's not that creative in many ways, but it's also, I think, just to say, fascinating thing to follow. I'm more of a passive marvel fun so for me, my favorite film franchise has got into...

...the galaxy and that's because you don't really need any idea of the characters before you go in. Lots of the other films as crossovers and if you miss one of the films some of the things won't make as much sense for you. And it sounds really bad that I'm panning the franchise for that, because that is essentially what the funds want and the funds love him. But that's why I didn't necessarily work for me, because I got kind of fed up of seeing all these superhio films that fell to bits, say me lost interest in them and that made it difficult to re enter the franchise at a later point about seeing them where was gotten to the galaxy. You could go into that and it's just a great ride. Whether you know anything about the marvel characters are not been Chris First asked this question, as it wasn't planned for hand. The thing was going from right here was makes you think what we watch Marvel Universe films? I did back online and I have seen some of them. So I've seen the two guardian of the Galaxy Films and I've seen the iron man trilogy. But the only reason why I've seeing the iroman films as because I like Robert Downey Jr as an actor. Of those, I think I like the third iron man film the most. Are the eye realiens. But yeah, part who was terrible. So I guess anything after. I watched them quite close to each other, so anything after I amage she was going to be better. So but look at overall, like mom I did find guardians of the galaxy the most enjoyable. It was a comedy. It didn't matter that I didn't know anything else going on the marbles universe. But Yeah, look, I hate superhero films. I don't know if I've said that before one of the podcast but yeah, I've never been big and distribute hero movies and let's just something that puts a bit of a unique spin on it. But yeah, you know, actually be hero films aren't for me and if I ever get a silver on the box office list on I check movies, will be through somehow avoiding all those countless superhero films out there because, yeah, in general I can't stand them. Yeah, that's come o the hard MoD here. Also, a lot of aline animated comedies have to sit through instead, but I prefer those to those like mirror films. But Fair enough, but I don't actually mind the marvel films. I think most of the early ones are actually not that good or special. I think that's probably something that's gonna there was more controversial claims there, but like I don't think that iron man really is particularly good. I think the third one is that bysmal. Actually I think it's a bit of a joke. And the first the whole gives just awful. But somehow I saw them and somehow I continued watching them and I do think that I would likely that adventures somehow managed to bring them together and work every better than everything they came before, and that's really impressive and adding to what I think. But you are said earlier, they do have that stage of feeling like a season finales or conclusion. So that is something that does make the eventuals film. Then I was a little bit more even though the second adventures film was also quite poor. And then, unlike some of you, had not the big Fan of end game even either. But I think the films that really stood out for me, or at least d film that really stood out for me as unique and different than better than what came for in it's series, was so rugnarock, because I didn't like poor particularly much and to to I thought was quite terrible. I thought it was the one superhero they just couldn't manage because they played him both the Doka too seriously at the same time. It didn't work at all. It was the dullest hero in the franchise barring the original halt. But with Tour Ragnar rock to the main storyline is awful and there's a war going on and all of this stuff that I completely forget about every single time I think about this film, because what this film does is that it takes this bizarre side turn where the end up in this gladiator style alien planet where it's tore and the whole and they're fighting it out this bizarre and it's colorful and it's playful and creative and I think it's just shows how good these films could be if they didn't take themselves that seriously and went on a bit more of a crazy rampage, at least as my opinion. I think was interesting it that's in that school franchise they are so many fans that we kind of gets examples of the dunch of different sequels in different ways. It sequels can be good or that, but you mentioned to right now, which is a big change in tone compared to the previous films. With the soldier would be another example of the thing that's really goes for s s spy feel as a post. Yeah, you just one which it was more of a warthing and you, you guys, mentioned gardens, the Guy Act see, which makes sense that you guys like it the most when you're not kind of the franchise because, yeah, it's standard. I do agree that in terms of standard on films in that franchise it's probably the best. So, yeah, it's kind of a Michael Cosum of the different ways you can do sequels, because...

...they are just so many. On that note, then, and on the point of the big jumps in sequels like mine, where, you know, we go from a poor early to films into tour rug the Rock you, what do you think is the biggest quality jump, or what's the biggest positive quality jump between an original and a sequel that's a sequel that's actually much, much better than the first film? This is quite a difficult question to ask because generally, if I don't like the first film in a series, unlikely to check out any sequels that come after it. One example I do have there is the dead snow series of films. Now, the first one was put on the map because it's kind of an interesting take on the Zombie Genre, the snary Satin, the Nazi zombies. You know, it brings us something new the horror funds perhaps haven't seen before. I didn't think it quite hit the mark of it was going for. It was kind of not sure whether it was going to be in all out comedy because it's still focusing on some horror elements and it didn't blend the horror and comedy together too wild in my opinion. I had no inclination to watch the sequel. Those that say horror film festival and Dead Snow to was on. It's either that or go home. So I thought I'll give it a chance, I'll watch it, I've got a ticket, why not? And I absolutely loved it. It was an all out comedy and it was so much fun and it just works incredibly well. So that's an example of a sequel that really ramps off the quality between the first and the second. I do agree that the second dead snow film is a better film on the first film, but for me the quality job wasn't that big because I like the first film and then I thought the second film was actually very good. In terms of big quality jobs, the biggest I could think for me would be pink Panther, the original, like Edwards, film, and I shot on the dark, which is the sequel that, like Edwards, made a year afterwards and the original pink pads. A lot of people forget this. Peter sellars is actually not the main character. The main character is David lived and Peter Sellers just POPs up here and they're a lot of like manic stuff going around on it. But yet it's not a particularly funny film. I wanted to see was, as a side not particularly funny until the end and then I shot him. The dark comes along. Peter Sellers is the main character in there, but long father gets a hold of a screen time, as is our related boss said, Herbet long actually follows Peter Sellers throughout most of the pink pat the films beyond that. So really great seal introducing in there. Got Some great supporting cast members like Brian Forbes in there and yes, just a terrific film totally centered on Peter Sellers and just some of the small things like actually sucking the income is own penally does in a shawn. The dark is just incredibly funny and it just flows so well compared to the First Pink Panther Film. I've re watched them. On Re Watch I didn't dislike the foot first pink pant for that. Much of what it was okay. But the second film for me is really high quality. I actually think like it was was a better directorate drama than comedy. But in terms of like kids would comedies are shown, the dark is probably my favorite comedy that he ever made. But for me my answer has already been covered because it would be laydun of twenty four nine for the reasons the expense before. I guess. Another one I'm thinking of would be the third howry, but of him there's no ask about I don't really like the first two very much. Children's films in which you can be fine, but in this case it's looks not a good way and prisoner ask abound is and from so KLAHOLN has a very different usual identity. Story is quite good. I think it really takes kids film and makes mixed moder can tenager story which I guess allows for a little more emotional heft and complexity. Still get go and entertainment, but it's also really that director change that really brings around, would brings with visual identity to the franchise, which I think makes it the best of the whole franchise and really a big jump, that a good one. I do agree entirely on the third Harry Potter Film. It just said, at a dark tone for the series, that the subsequent Harry Potter films followed and tried to copy, and I think I only got to the Fifth Harry Pot of film that I gave up on them because I'll just copying what quarn did with the third film. But yeah, prisoner of ASCA man has the distinction of probably being outside of a little princess. So the third Harry Potter Film Is Probably the Iony Quran film that hasn't disappointed me. All of his other films when I sat down to them, whether it's be children or men or gravity or even eat mama town Beana, watching them just like Wat's the big deal, whereas with the Harry Potter film, like well, it's actually is really a much better than what the series has still...

...lived so far. When we'll have to do a discription, but because at some point to discustridian of men, because you're just one. So it sat probably should do, because the thing oddsay going into that is could remain. Would have been better if this film called zero population growth from nine hundred and seventy who didn't exist but children. Men. Just basically copies it and doesn't do a very good job of it, in my humble opinion, not so humble opinion, but you maybe for a future podcast, less with the obscure reference to shame me for and Don okay, sorry, and to give my answer. I think I've already more or less given it, as anyone for love being a pretty big gump from this of being wild, poor hundred rock being a massive jump from the first doors. But that might be my top pick. But as we been crossing over all these different topics, I'm sure there's lots of of the sequels are better than the originals, that they're kind of this had left and didn't get to so what are some other peoqueals you think are better than the original? I think it's only fair that we discussed the Mad Max series at some point now. The first man Max is great. It's establishing the world that the character lives in and setting up what is to come. But the sequels take it to a completely new place. The road war is just a fantastic film. It's excellent. I'm not so sure about thunder doom. I enjoyed it, but you know, and then fewer roads that just came years later was excellent and might even be the high point of the whole series for me. I quite agree with but Max even would say that every man Max film is better than the just one because Oh, like, oh yeah, right, thunder though I happen to like. Yeah, I think the best thing about about Max movies is the warm building. That's what they do best and I think beyond thunder doom really goes into that and I think that's great. And obviously few e road is is on another level. I would say. Completely agree with the man make films and that man next to road warrior. It really is the best one there and it's almost feels like the beginning of the franchise in a way to if you can call that, because the first one is for closer to our world. I mean it's it's essentially just almost as if it's ending right in and there everything looks more or less as normal and it doesn't, doesn't have the why, body, atmosphere or type of world that road warrior and the later films type, and I think it's harmed for that. I mean in this is might be one of those films that also looks slightly worse due to this. How much better they see place to if we should talked about earlier. But yeah, I really think the road warrior took essentially everything good about the first Mad Max, which was worthless, an average wrench story in many ways, and just turned into something completely different than set up a really memorable franchise because of it. I would look that the second one we sets up the post apocalyptic saying it. That's kind of present in the first one, but not as much, and then certain the four just built on that. One that I can't Scoli we haven't mentioned yet would be the empire strikes back. I mean it's kind of the famous sequel of all time, kind of, and it does a think that many sequels try to do, which is too good, but it's a darker rights and I think in this case at least, each works quite well and I think also its visually has a leg up on the orige north in. Definitely that would be one another one for me. Had to continue with the hot takes. would be actually like Halloween to better than how do we because I'm not big fan of how do win, weirdly, even though I like John Carpenter of all, and Halloween to is not great, but it's works fine to me. Is the best of the franchise of those as of those I've seen anyway. It's just a small scale, whole fim and confined space the the hospital and it doesn't try to be much more than that and it works quite well as such. But yeah, it's tight to the fact that I'm not a huge fren of the original and just the that's when I would mention would be before sunset, you mentioned earlier, because the cat this series, right, the Spanish apartment and the sequels and the before series are kind of the same thing, right, with the same actors over long periods of time. I like for Sun rise a lot, but I think before sunsets is on another level. I guess the weight of the fact that you've seen the first film really gives a depth to the relationship between those two people and the latter those great with dialog as always. I'm glad that you bill to the before trilogy. I actually think that before sunrise is the best of the whole trilogy. In the sequels don't quite meet that level of quality, but I think the sequels are still great films in their own rights, and the reason behind that is that it's the same artistic team and they've given time between the films to enable the story to be developed, the not just being films that have been rushed out for the sake of it. See Cause that your stats, but to grab cashe it's because filmmakers behind and...

...really want to tell the story and want it done right, and I think that's a great example of sequels that were really well. Agree completely without Tom and I think in disagree with one part of is that they say that the first one is is the best. Actually think the third one, before midnight, is this. There is the very best in Trulship, but there are more or less on the same quality line. From me. There more or less equally spectacular and I think what makes this really stand out and different from so many other sequels is just what we talked about our time with that. You can see that's the clear intent and also the fact that there's this earth grew return to these characters and even built in from the second film onwards, the Said Day that we've gone to see them again after a set amount of time. We're going to see how their life developed. You can see how that relationship has gone, and then just hear them talk here and have those conversations, and every single time it's done differently, whis to say that the relationship has changed in such a way that the topics they talk about change, the way they reveal their own characters and their own development is different, their tone is different, even though they're still so similar as well. So I really think that this is one of more beautiful pillage is ever created and while it's really hard to say which one is really the best, I do this for now, at least, I think, before it's before midnight. But for me these films are essentially all on par as really great, Wonderful Film. Before I talk about some of the other sequels that I can said to be better than the original or just react some of the stuff that been brought up already. Yeah, mad backs films. Yeah, we seem to be doing all my pet hates in this podcast. But you know, and they're really like post I never really liked the whole or post apocalyptic vibe. The Mad Max to didn't really do a lot for me. The first three mad max films. I have one about the same level. I think I preferred the first slide, but also like the third most of the more people, the whole fer old children, as Matthew are saying. It does actually build upon and expand the man next universe, which is really nice. And also I've got that classic teen of turn of Song. We don't need another hero. It's just an amazing theme song for the film. But yeah, the fourth man Max film, even though I didn't love it. I do have degrees, the best of them. Up with empire strikes back. I did rewatch the first six films. I don't know a few years ago that I did actually like a new hope better than empire or though I current remember why. I've found a favorite star wars film, though, is episode through Evangela Tith. Love the way that it builds everything up for a new hope. It's just an amazing really dark film. And with the Halloween ones I'm problem the same page as matthew. I don't really like the original John Carpet of film that much is music score is amazing, maybe the best horror music score of all time, but actual story is pretty bad bear and the actors aren't really that well developed, especially compared to what Rob Zombie did with his version two thousand and seven. But I don't like the second film better than the first. So so I don't really agree with Matthew on that. But I do love Halloween three. But then again, Halloween three, season of the witch, like unfridded dark web, isn't really a sequel, with a story of its own. That was meant to be set in the same sort of universe and they never really happened. Of the Halloween Sequel's resurrections pretty interesting. That one's got a whole eye videoing element in there. But yeah, the Halloween Franchise in general not that great. Much prefer Knight, Mount Elm Street and part of the thirteen for series, but I won't get into that at the moment. Getting back to the subject a sequels that I think we're better than the original. Trump to go on for this for too long. I think bride of Chucky is the best of the child's play films. Somebody was saying before all of the best things to see we could do is tape that the chility for direction and play its comedy, and that's what it does. The first child's play field is just such a serious drama what is a really silly story, and the third film, the brother, the chucky film, really plays up at silliness. The second film does it to a bit and then the brighter chucky just completely. The whole thing's a comedy, which I think is brilliant. I really like bore at subsequent movie film more than the Original Board, which I've seen a couple of times times. visional board is just so focused on the original characters own prejudices. That doesn't get that much into head space. Everybody else has prejudices. For a subsequent movie film. We've actually got bought its daughter actually overtakes him and outshines and everything will see that she's in. It's a completely different vibe and it's actually very relevant to what's going on the man with Covid nineteen everything. So I just loved that and I thought I did a much better job on the first board film.

I have to mention because it talked about trilogies where each one gets better. But on Clare and play time. I prefer Mon onclear to play time. But both of those, I think, our fast superior films to the original Mr Hulo's holiday. They play with technology much more. There are a lot funnier the way that tutty frames different things and mono clerk correct most of the jokes there. So yeah, I just absolutely love that film. Might just mention a few more but I'm not going to get them to them in death. Preferred born supremacy to the firstborn film. Human Centipede two and three did much more dynamic things the first one. I put term aid to a theme, though I do love the first firm ad thepercorn three is another horror film where they take him a comedy direction. That works perfectly. Oceans Thirteen. Again I love the original oceans eleven. Ocean's thirteen, though, at a stakes that ever better, super saturated colors than ever. So absolutely love that. A forward sistern ever breach to I did like more than the original grace, but it's been more controversial, I guess, for controversially could also put a pot of guys three. I just love the will building of that more than the original. Polar guys, happy tiff day to you again. Takes s our premise. It does so much more different things that are completely builds up with the world of it Adams family values, with the Wednesday Adams character, the species that out everything. I'm lookky keep going on, but I think that's just tons of US calls die hard with a vengeance create to that just do amazing things beyond what the original film does. That was quite a list, son. I think you can see that there are a lot of sequals that can be better than the original. That I'm gonna think one of the ones that stand out the most of me from a series I think none of you ever seen, which is Matthew Barney's creamster cycle, and the best film in that series, to me at least, is crea master to, which is not the second film in the series. It's the Fort Film in the series because it's started with creamster for then Queen Muster, what then cree master five, before we then get the creamster too and ultimately be master tree. But this is really a bizarre it's realistic video art project by Patty Barney which goes into really bizarre set pieces. The first two in particular are quite low budget, though that they're visually unique, spectacular stunning. I think that in cream aster too, is the first one, which is much longer the other ones, for all around an hour than they has. The absolutely spectacular, visually gorgeous set pieces which you know we will go on for ten twenty minutes each. Is the stunning sequences with I'm not eve be sure if I can get into it, but the visual atmosphere, the world building, that type of unique characters he creates. It's just gorgeous to look at and premaster to really really deliverous. There for a far more conventional pick, I'm going to actually go all the way back to one thousand nine hundred and twenty four with Crem hills, revenge and sequel to any belong in the midst for at least payment backtback essentially, first one focusing on SIG fit in the second one on his wife taking well revenge. And I think the reason why this criminals revenge is so much stronger to me is that the first one, while great and looks round full, it's everything strong about the first enablelonging is that it feels more conventional. It's really just the traditional hero story where you have this incredible mythological hero of essentially killing dragons and rising in fame, etc. But Creme Hill's revenge it goes in a completely different direction where you have this woman who is just devastated and seeking that vention. Is feels darker. It's just so much more striking, it so much more unusual and it left far more of an impression on me. And for two more quick shout doubts to the ends and socirilogy is I want to shout out life of a Pooh, which I mean the whole approved trilogy is spectacular, but I really think just the last one we see him as a father and it feels a little bit more poignant. And also say aside, which is the final film in the Fanny Trilogy, which is comprised of Madius from that thirty one fanny from a one thousand nineteen, thirty two, I believe. And then finally say aside from thirty six is the first one the PATNOEL directed himself. The first two were directed by all the directors using his script, and I think it's just shows that first of all he could grab a whole of this story himself and finish it his way while also just bringing everything to conclusions. Obviously this is another example of a series that is quite preplanned for contextuals. It comes together and it's really beautiful finale. I think it's encouraging to see that we've all got so many examples of sequels today better than the originals. And we've not even...

...mentioned the Dark Night Trilogy or the Godfather Trilogy yet, which in my mind, it's your if the grat equals of all time. I mentioned on one for the part two, but very briefly. Right dear father must have missed it, but yeah, the you know, there are are so many examples of sequels that depended in the original. It is so easy to get in that mindset of just thinking negatively towards sequels. And you mentioned Chris of him. Hence Rusha is interesting because I guess it's kind of belongs in the category where I don't think of them as sequels. It's like keeping too I like you, with too more than Kid Bein bit. But I did a really bring it up because it's not going to sequel. To me it's kind of the same in two parts, the same with like a lot of things film and stuff like that, where it's kind of stretching the definition of what's a sequel is. I suppose that's a good point that you have. You, I guess you have back in there. You had a lot of to two partners or you making two films back to back. It's still hits the sequel, but I guess it's a different kinds of sequel the ones you often get now. Is that, okay, did this movie make money? Okay, we're going to continue. It's is part of a franchise, okay, we're going to continue, whereas this is more of a polete preplanned set of films. I mean, I guess that ties in Withou, say, Lord of the Rings as well, even though most people generally think fellowship of the ring is the best. I mean that those were films that were planned out together at the beginning, and you still have a few of these, but it's a different way of looking at sequels where the first film isn't actually the end of the story. The end of the story is already in mind and it's coming in a later film. A little bit bad that they don't have too many of these anymore, because sequels that are pre planned and already built into the architecture. Sometimes are better, but at the same time I think you all talked about a lot of great sequels, even sequals better than the first film that we were not originally planned. Definitely I think it's with noting sequels that are planned on the outset and much rarer because of the great expenditure and outlay of money for the studios involved. It's a huge risk taking on a property that's going to span over a number of films without first establishing whether the audiences there. So it's a shame that the monetary situation comes into play with all these films, but it does exist. On that point about taking a story and burning it over a couple of films or three films, I think Matthew did mention bill bill and it kill Bill One and two. I do slight prefer to to one, but they do different things. In the first kill bill film we don't even know the bride's names. She's just the bride because we get to identify with her as the killer, and then the second film was about getting to identify with her as a person. I just think it's amazing that we're Tarantine, was told no and're not going to find that this five our film for you have to split into two, that he managed to do it in such a way that the two kill bill films to such different things and yet both of them are such amazing experiences. It reminds me of something that we haven't mentioned. With the films that are continuous plans together, is the human condition to the Massa kikobade she fins. I like the second one. That doesn't the first, and the third one butter than the second, and I think it has that kind of building story that the character gets more complex as it goes on and maybe you could argue that it's really just one big thing at that down to we did different films that just really different chapters. But I think that with these films, what with the films that are really plans together and I just continues and not separated, you often have that effect, but that the ending is the best parts because it's where everything is a coming. It's what's the narrative has been bidding too. I think a lot of the things many people do like which on of the king the best. I guess some people have problems with the ending Clo same reason, I think, because it's kind of satisfying to have its all come together. I actually prefer the first film in the human conditioned relationship, but I think you're also completely right in me that is a fantastic trilogy. Some people will use the best Religi of all time and it's certainly up there. And I think it's further confused a little bit by the fact that each of the film's have two parts. There with the title, so it could almost be a six part mini series. Does kind of play a little bit with what we think sequels are. Fun Day enough to a lot of the things. Books actually the same. There are six books, which each book is actually do Anu into too, and I guess it's the same for the books that's were adapted into the human condition to it. We're nearing the end there, but we talked a lot about sequels have a better than original. That's our topic as well, but that's a bit of a conclusion. Is it the case that sequels that are better than original UN necessarily the best sequels of all time? Other some really spectacular sequels that you want to talk about in the shout doubt that we're not necessarily better than the original, but maybe on part or or at least had this incredible experience that might have trumped many of the films you already mentioned previously. Well, I guess it's again something that's kind...

...of debatable as whether or not to seequel. But the comment or tritogy comes to mind. shutots the dead is one of my friends of love time that the words end actually is a form love just as much as the first one. Again, kind of debatable whether or not can count that as a sequel because it's more of a magic turgy. The characters are different. But yeah, that that's the first thing that comes to me. It's interesting about their cornetto trilogy. I do like the world's and a lot, but I think of it as a trilogy, sort of the name only. I wouldn't really consider them to be sequels as such. Other than the different CORNETTO rappers. I don't know if they've got that much in common or but bit of the same vibe to it. But yeah, hot farst was probably my least favorite of the three and I've seen all them at least twice, maybe more. In terms of sequels that I think are really good, but any once I can think about of the top of my head are from my favorite franchises. I'm thinking with the oceans film. Oceans twelve is a really amazing film. It often gets slammed around, but it's just so cool some of the things that Soda Burg does in there, with the different role that Julia Roberts gets to play in there, if in super saturated colors and everything, the way the characters interact and they discussed their ai to discuss being caught oceans eleven. It's just a really great character building film. We actually learn more about the characters and oceans twelve then the Leven or thirteen, and though they are better films. And then I'll just go back to the screen in franchise. I'm going to say all four screen films or about on the same level. For me, the fur has got the weakest reputation and, when push comes to shove, it is the weak as it's got a bit of a voice changing thing in there, which was a make a lot of sense. But everything in third from Lee of tribe at complaining about doing a cameo and a small horror film and getting killed off to actually getting killed off, that's just completely matter. It's everything the screen fairchise does so well. I just love the fourth screen film, or so I've said it before. It's my favorite film the decade. It favorite film also about the decade, and the all the screen films, I think, are about the same level. One example it I've thought of is the film that we discussed at some length in the Spanish higher podcast episode that we did twhich was wrecked to now. I absolutely love this film because it's a great example of one that builds on the ideas in the original but takes it in another direction and whilst it isn't as effective or as impressive as the original, it does a great job of continue in the storyline whilst introducing enough new ideas to keep it fresh and exciting, and that's quite rare for a horror sequal. Just to add, I thought of a maybe more straightforward example, which is the second grim nins film, and I could just like less than the first one, but they're very different and both, I think, those successful. GOIM INS to kind of takes the mad gap energy of the first in turns it up to eleven and it's it's great. So I actually have quite a few shout out someone to add in. The first one is the Dr Maybe's trilogy, especially because after fresh land did the final film in the s the House Nice, Dr Maybus, there was a bunch of b movie sequels not made by him as well. But I do see the first three as on their own and this is a trilogy and a set of sequels that are just completely different times, different formats, because obviously the original Dr Maybe's it's a silent film, and the sequel from nine thirty three, the last film that Fritz Lang did in Germany before he left. You to that since coming to power, this is a talkie, and then obviously jump almost thirty years into the thus nice of Dr Maybe's and I think just the character, the way hits portrayed. Obviously talent offerslan to to just have this kind of extreme mystery of this almost shapeshifting criminal mastermind. It's playful, it's clever, it's poping all the right ways and I think that really is a great testament, not just dr maybe's but to Fritz Lang. There are two other series of trilogies or cree even other series really she's I want to shout out. I want to shout out the toy story series. I think that both toy story two and toy story three are great sequel. So we can probably talk a bit more about the fourth one, but at least the first two are quite great. And the two sequels of how hard lit to Henry Fool, which is the fake grim, and finally ned rifle, two of the better films that the whole artist made since the s, because he kind of lost his way, but just going back to these characters, building on this story and playing around in the same mold, the same atmosphere, the same dead Pan Humor he does, especially in the final and that rifle. I mean those are just such great films. And finally, in terms of talking about series, I really want to talk about I'm doing doo an l series by Francois through for and I think I didn't mention them...

...in the first part of this podcast because it's really hard to sit here and say, okay, you know, sequels are better than the four hundred blows, but in my opinion stolen kisses and bed and board are up there. I mean they are really different films because obviously he's at this point an adult and it's his love relationships are on show and on this play and the atmosphere is different during color and I think the whole journey of Entando and a from a child and into an adult over period of about twenty years and five films is a really great one, even though the last film is not quite up there, and it's definitely a series I want to shout out to everyone who's listening. And just two additional sequels that I really want to shring up. Is One three years monder lay, which obviously cannot compare to dog will, but this is a really good and interesting continuation and the sequel to outness. Why? That's fantastic. Stick the cleaners and I, which just jumped in a couple of years later and takes it up the same stories, and this also plays in with the reception of the film. It's a really good addition. It's good. It goes really little against the topic. But because we haven't mentioned it, there's a weird, weird phenomenon where people think pudding turn to is much better than Paddington. I don't know if you guys have seen I have seen both. I see where they're coming from. The doctor, if I agree to me, it's a mystery. I think I like the first one much better and yeah, it should be the second one kind of like the God father we are share should sort's opinion. That kind of rehashes what the first does anyway. I just wanted to to shout that up to clarify my opinion with God father too, was that it's, say, sequel to a film that was perfect as it is. The whole closing doors first godfather films like it doesn't need taken any further. I've seen it too putting in films. I did for the second from memory, it's been a few years. I liked them both about the sign I wouldn't say the second ones massively better than the first one. Yeah, agree with that. That has a slightly more unique visual style. It even looks a little bit more like a westander film, just how it uses colors. I think that's some of the what people are picking up on, but to me they're about the same. Yes, he mentioned it out of the time, but I think it's just that putting on too, has a sequence that kind of explicitly recalls a sexually in going to thest what the first one already looks like. A wishers something to be don't. Let's just round up the podcast with my two final questions. The first one is do you think they'll ever get tired of making sequels? And to do think sequels have or will change the reputation, either for better or worth? There's no chance that they'll ever get board if making sequels. They make too much money for everyone involved. Every they are great. Not so I don't think that will ever change the reputation sequels. Again, I think it's online. It's a change. We've clearly pinpointed some shining examples where I sequels can be just as good as the original, if not better, although it does seem that that is usually a rarity. So I can't see a great shift in the perception of sequels anytime soon, I guess. Likewise, I don't really see people stopping making sequels. I don't think it's that much of a problem though, because, as I point out with my gigantic list where around with on, I think there are tons of great sequels out there. I think the whole remake situation is far more dire than the sequel situation. I don't like that less remakes coming out, but in terms of sequels, no, I think it's a problem. I think there's tons of great sequels or at least very decency was being made. So I don't say that's a problem for the reputation change. I think possibly I'd like because I don't like the way that sequels automatically get slammed, because there's lots of sequels that I like. So I think if people are exposed to enough sequels that actually do, things really grow in crowding things, general perception might change. I don't know if any time soon, but yeah, don't stop making them, and I don't think they really need to, because even if a sequel sucks, even if it's terrible like the excess part, so it's not going to ruin the first film. The first film is its own entity. You can't destroy the first film, less to go back and re edit it and then destroy original copies. Dot the dorte Lukas Plan. And that's for my part. I don't really think they'll ever get out of making sequels, but I do think the reputation will somewhat change, if only because, as it talks about earlier in this podcast, the nature of sequels have changed.

We now have franchises with fifteen, twenty, thirty films which are just loosely connected, where you have tequal series with enfranchises. If we talked about where you have I am a Mondu three, you have tour won Du three, but the interact with other films that do think that the way that sequels are seen, in the way we react to them will change because the they have a shared universe. The idea of sequels that are barely see quols, or even Shayamalan's idea of sequels that are surprisingly sequels all comply into the same thing where what the sequel is will change, if it hasn't already. Yeah, definitely agree that sequels are not going anywhere out. have been there the whole time. I mean the search is universal. Was Making Munch of sequels, Sin Man to and even in literature that than in century you get the fumus her tears, the two women this books that were hugely successful. They got sequels because it's just commercially advantageous. But I think actually the view of sequence is already changing, which you describe, Chris, I would say it's I mean there are still people who you moon existence of sequence, but I think it has been changing in the past five years. Maybe I've seen a lot of more people having a more moderates. I guess position. Well, moderation is one thing we cannot expect from the creation of sequels. I think coming up over the next few years we can expect more will and easy en franchises to keep growing so well. This may have caused people's opinions to moderate. The production will not, however, as we talked about, many of these films can actually be great or even better than the originals, and as these franchises expand and grow, in particular, I think we will see more and more unique voices get to play with them and you'll see more and more unique entries. Were already hearing about the first marvel horror film, so there's going to be a lot of things will be into think, to see in the future. Let us know what your favorite sequels are and rich equels you think are better than the originals, not to mention your opinion on sequels in general. At ICM Forumcom we will have a thread dedicated to the episodes. You can go straight there and this guess, as always. Thank you so much for listening and journ us again soon. You have been listening to talking images, the official PODCAST OF ICM FOR USCOM.

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