Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 45 · 10 months ago

INTERVIEW: Like Dogs, or: How to Direct, Produce and Distribute an Indie Horror During a Pandemic


In our first episode of season 3, Sol sits down with Like Dog director Randy Van Dyke and producer Kelly Faltis to discuss their recent horror movie LIke Dogs (2021) and their experience with making and distributing an indie horror film during the pandemic.

Van Dyke and Faltis will take you through everything from how the pandemic, restrictions and lockdowns affected their production, and how a very smart decision gave them more exposure than if they had been a little more trigger happy. 

They will also take you under the hood of how a film ends up on streaming services, including the more frustrating details of who actually gets royalties and how many are made in the current model - and of course they will discuss everything about the film itself.

You are listening to talking images, the official PODCAST THEM ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone. I'm so and today we are something very special for you, as we had joined by Kelly felt as and Raddy Vandyke, the producer and R A director of the two thousand and twenty one psychological horror film like dogs. I will be asking about the making of the film and some of the challenges that come with releasing a film during the pandemic. So, to start us off, costs, about your film and what inspired you to come up with the plot for the film like dogs. Well, that first of all. Thank you so much for having us on your show. This is going to be a lot of fun. So one of the biggest inspirations for this movie was the Stanford Prison Experiments. Now, I'm not sure if you're familiar or if your listeners are familiar with what that is, but that was something that actually happened in real life at Stanford University back in one thousand nine hundred and seventy one. There was an experiment, a psychological experiment, where volunteers, students, were assigned either a role as a prison guard or as an inmate in a mock prison scenario. It was meant to last two weeks, but it only lasted six days before people started mentally breaking down. The guards were had a kind of a feeling of superiority and the and started beating the inmates. The inmates there. Their will started to break, they started to get depressed, they started to have all sorts of other physical issues and they end up having to shut down the experiment. And the second thing that that inspired me was the location. We found an abandoned animal shelter when I was location scouting for another film that I'd been working on and I walked into this giant Kennel Room, a room where we spend a lot of time in the movie itself, and there were these what look like cement cubicles in there and where they used to chain up dogs. I walked into that room and I just looked around and I was just overwhelmed with inspiration and I thought I want to write a movie chaining humans inside of these little Kennels and treating them like animals, and that was kind of both of those were kind of, though, the the main ingredients for what would become like dogs. And the answer the First Party your question. It's a it's it's basically about a psychological experiment at university, run experiment where humans are being treated like animals and things start going wrong, people start showing up dead and next thing you know everybody involved is pretty much just racing to get out of there see who survives. Lots of twist, lots of turns, lots of fun stuff, you know, excellent. Thanks for shrry. I agree. Those lots of twist and tares. And there it's a film that eats you guessing a little the pot during it. And Yeah, lots of surprise, of revelations to come. Definitely we wanted to keep things as unpredictable as possible. I have a deep love and appreciation for the horror films that I grew up watching, like nightmare on Mel Street, Freddy Krueger was always my favorite, and Halloween and Friday and thirteen that kind of stuff. The the the kind of stereotypical slasher, bloody, gory kind of horrors. But what always really made me really scared was what the the normal human mind was capable of. What what evil secrets were normal looking people carrying that kind of thing? So I thought it was much more fun to do kind of a psychological thriller exploring just how dark and twisted some of these seemingly innocent looking people can be. And Yeah, that was that was all. So one of the one of the things that led towards like dogs and it's awesome and I yeah, totally agree. The best horror...

...films of ones where the killers are exactly look like killers, really look like evil people. I do have to ask about this one film must or a few years ago go films called pet. It's got Jeanett mccurdy in it and about this guy is not able to like get a go friends, so he kidnaps and then sort of like hauld so, like keeps a captive inside this Kennel. It's not quite like like dogs, but that came to mind when I was watching the film. So wondering if you've seen it or if you've heard those comparisons before. I personally have not seen that one, but it's interesting that you say that, because Art International Distributor Company called Black Mondala. They did artwork for the movie, like poster artwork, and somebody told me that one of their versions of the poster was very reminiscent of the movie pet. But again, I didn't see it. So so I'm not entirely sure. But what do you think, Kelly? Did you see that one? I haven't seen that one. And and again, thank you, guys for having us on the podcast. This is my first podcast ever. Unfortunately. I Randy here or director to help me, as he is very experienced. But no, I haven't seen pet. I have heard of it, though. One of the questions I was going to ask later on, but I might ask a now. Are on the subject with the artwork, it is quite interesting. It's very striking. I guess, the cover for the film, or at least the one that's being promoted on let it box. It's yeah, does really draw out the guests the horror of it. You've got like this woman who's looks like she's inside a little like one of those carry boxes that you carry a dog or a cass in, and you know it says every dog as it's day and is just striking reds and all that and that sort of post. When I force saw the film is failable streaming, that sort of what drew me to the film because I'Mlike, all, this looks interesting, but I was expecting more of you know, maybe a torture, a torture porn sort of horror film, whereas your horror film is more of a psychological horror film. So I was wondering what sort of input you guys had as production directing and so the post art work, or if you had any imput at all into it. The only reason I'm laughing about you asking that question is because we had shockingly little input on it. We created our own poster, which is very reminiscent of a lot of s movies that I like. You know, the drew strus and kind of artwork where it's kind of like a montage of characters and situations and stuff like that, something that was kind of like a real classic movie poster, not necessarily a horror movie poster, but something that kind of Harkened to a lot of the movies that I kind of adored growing up. And the distribution companies that we went with, both domestic and international, didn't like my artwork so they both came up with their own. So the the idea of having a woman boxed up into a tiny little dog crate was not my idea. I thought it was fairly clever and it's definitely evocative of some pretty frightening imagery, but the the biggest thing that we were trying to avoid is leading people to believe it was torture porn. And even some of the early artwork that we got back from our international distributor that had one of the artwork that they ended up with, and I don't think it's on letter box, but it shows the couple of characters, Lisa and Adam, hanging in these cages holding hands. That was that one was kind of safe. But there was one that was just the Lisa character and a cage, chained up, looking up like she's just been abused, and that one really felt like torture porn. So we were able to kind of tell them, hey, let's let's not go that direction.

Number one, we don't want to mislead any potential viewers, but also that's really not what the film is about and, as you mentioned, you know, it's really psychological thriller horror kind of thing and and definitely not leaning into the torture porn you know, as much as I love the saw movies and stuff like that, I feel like it's been really overplayed and it was a territory that I really didn't want to get into. Not Saying that it can't be done well, and it can't. You can't have something new and original brought to the table, but there have been so many, so many movies since saw that are kind of exploiting or copycatting that kind of torture porn vibe to it. I really wanted to kind of keep it a good clear distance away from that, even though there might be slight elements of that in this movie. It was a struggle just to have, you know, small changes made. We, I know Randy and their producer Amos, and myself. We all feelings and suggestions we offered, but just getting a little tweaked here there's is about the best we could do. Yeah, I think we get the biggest change we were able to get made is the originally they had the title in a red fount instead of white and we got them to change it to white just so it would stand out more. But when it came to the artwork, in the imagery specifically itself, they they had their idea of what they wanted the thumbnail to look like on whatever streaming service they were going to be promoting it on. So they were were very adamant about kind of sticking to that and since they're the professionals, are the ones that, you know, specifically distribute these kind of movies, I differ to their wisdom. I figure, well, they probably know what's best. But even if you were saying that you thought it might be a little bit more torture porn than maybe, I think that's what other people are going to be thinking as well and that and now I'm concerned about that. You know, it's kind of interesting. I was a bit aware of it myself because I'm not a big fan of torture port in general. I don't even really like the saw films that much. I think I'll still did it well, because those sort of tapping into, you know, some of the basic human desires that might come out with a torture porn scenario. But yet general I'm not in to torture porn and so ill I was actually a bit hesitant to watch it at first, but you know, it was available one of my streaming services. was watching films for the horror challenge that we had in October on the ICM forum and I was just like, oh, we got it. Looks interesting enough. We'll see how it goes. But yes, something that's is fascinated me about films in the way they promoted and like how much important directors actually get into what the promotional artwork looks like, because for people have never liked heard of the film, of the directors or the cast or anything. The one thing that's going to draw somebody to a film is the poster. Yeah, definitely I would be interested in some time and looking at some of the other poster designs that you had, although you mentioned he had one where you had the growing the name of the main go on the film. You the Lisa is the character least the yeah, yeah, you mentioned that you had posted with Lisa and Adam both in a holding hands, and that probably would have actually turned me off watching the film or turn me off entirely. But you know, the Adam character is one of the big surprises for me in the film because we originally think that's just all happening to her and she is the any person there and then that for me was actually a quite big plot deflection. So yeah, I'd prefer that part personally be unspoiled. So I don't know if the producers are onto something with that, but yeah, no, I agree in general that the poster that they've chosen is directed more towards the torture porn market. Yeah, I think the true test is going to be seeing the long run how many people end up watching it and commenting and and letting US know if they're disappointed with the lack of torture porn in it. We get all sorts of fun comments on IMDB and Amazon prime and anywhere people can leave comments. You get the people that really love it and they get it and they're into it, and then we get the absolute polar opposite,...

...the people that hate it with a bloody passion and but at least they're passionate about it. So but yeah, the people seem to fall to one extreme or the other. There's not a hole on a middle ground. Yeah, it's very interesting to hear about your reading comments, because I guess I'm pretty much given up reading on IMDB comments. I guess you know, if it's getting into film, you know, I'm DB was the way to go, but you know these days, you know, I'm more looking for letter box for comments. So I love letter box comments, just onelone reviews that don't tell you anything, but I know it is kind of interesting you do sort of one to was some of the films when you're commenting on them. Who's actually reading them? I know is shown bike because he's on letter box. Whatever he says, he hasn't read any comments for any of his films. I do sometimes wonder if I was a filmmake, whether I'd actually wanted through the comments or whether it's just something that I'll personally ignore. Honestly, I I usually don't, and especially I learned that from Youtube. If you've ever posted anything on youtube or any kind of big public platform, if you have any kind of strong opinions one where or the other, you're going to have people that disagree and you're going to have people that become keyboard warriors, as they say, and get nasty about it. But what change things for this particular movie is we got a string of really positive reviews, a bunch of youtube reviews that were positive and then a bunch of write ups online that were really positive and I got this false sense of wow, maybe be it's actually a pretty good movie. I mean, I'm kind of joking, because I like it. I think it's a pretty decent movie anyway. I love it so so I'm proud of it. But all of a sudden I'm thinking, wow, we're getting all these good reviews, I'm going to get brave and I'm going to start reading some of the stuff they say on IMDB and I immediately regretted that decision. So I think I'm going to take your advice and probably maybe cool it a little bit and back off on reading the comments because you know, for you know, you might feel pretty good reading some good ones, but all it takes is one one nasty little thing that somebody says the it'll just strike a nerve or hit a little too close to home and it'll just remind me of why I don't like reading comments. And I think that's probably even harder for you, Randy, because this was your baby from the beginning and I I loved it. You a name is brought me on work as a producer on this. One of the things, some of the things you've mentioned, are what I loved about the script when I first read it and just some of the surprising twist and turns and I like I like something that says something about human nature or that explores character in some way, and I felt that like dogs does that. But yes, I've been reading the reviews too, and I found it interesting to see what blour liking about it or, you know, if they're not what it it what it is, but it's been an education. Yeah, the thing that kind of stands out to me the most is the stuff that people like the most about it is usually kind of like the unpredictability of the story and the twists and people saying, wow, I've never seen it done quite like this before, or while I wasn't expecting where it was going, but I really liked it. But the the ironic thing is those are also some of the things that people hate the most about it. was there were too many twists or oh, I couldn't you know, if they couldn't figure it out in the first twenty minutes of the movie, then then it wasn't worth their time or something like that. But it's like, I don't want to figure it out that early. I want to be taken on a ride and not know where it's going to end up, that kind of thing. So and that's why I feel like the way it was marketed or the expectations maybe that people have going into it might directly correlate to their enjoyment of it. You know, for example, so all you were saying, you're expecting it to be a torture porn film. Maybe somebody WHO's really into torture porn goes to try to watch this and they're like wow, this is incredible slow for the first twenty minutes. What's going on? Where's the blood? That kind of thing, and they're...

...immediately turned off from it. Maybe they don't even finished watching the movie, but the next thing they're going to do they're going to go to letterbox and they're going to go to IMDB, they're going to go wherever and they're going to leave a nasty comment, whether they finished watching it all or not. So you never know what you're going to get. But the the important thing is really to just take it with a grain of salt and not really let it affect future projects that kind of thing. I think if anybody took their the negative reviews and negative comments of their movies too much to heart, they would just get out of the business entirely. But you got to have a thick skin and you got to look beyond that and you got to realize that, you know what, there are probably the silent majority of people that watched it and do like it. Maybe they're not like it enough to comment about it or or to post about it on a forum or a website, but at least they're not as enraged to, you know, go and actually make a comment about it. I don't know, I just I just feel like there's probably more people that like it than don't. They're just not being vocal about it. I would entirely agree about that. The film's actually got, you know, letterboxed average writing or above two point five. Think it's two point seven or something like that. So even though it's not a lot above the midway point, is above the midway point, which means, you know, over half the people are watching it are liking it to some degree. Something interesting which you mentioned is you said that some people are commenting without even finishing watching it, which I guess is one of the maybe detriments of film available and streaming services. I guess it's easier to turn off a film after part way through rather than walk out of a cinema for a film that you know, you might have paid, I take it, to go and see. But yeah, I do think with like dogs. I think if people are turning out, tuning out too early. I think they are missing out. There is definitely one twist towards the end, without revealing too much. It's to do with all of the boyfriends, which I thought was like really like overboard, but in general twist kept me engaged all the time through. I didn't know where the film was heading, and I absolutely love movies like that, because what I thought would happen when I sat down and watched it as would slowly see this war minute turned to be like a dog, like, after like a number of months over being shit like this, just start barking and growling and whatever, like a dog. But of course she doesn't, because you take us in entirely different direction, and this is something person which I loved about it. Well, thank you. I'm glad that that it kind of connected with you to the to that degree. And the part with the the exboyfriends, it is definitely over the top. I will absolutely agree with you on that. But but I did that on purpose. I wanted it to feel big and I wanted it to be a big reveal. And and again, I don't really necessarily want to spoil anything for your audience either, so I'm not going to go into too many details, but the person who assembled all of those people into that one room. It needed to feel like a big, grand gesture and it felt like the way to do that was just to fill up a room with these people and then just shocker with it. Yeah, that's good point. I might move on to something else then. So yeah, so this film has been released during the pandemic, so you know it's gone stretched streaming services. When I was talking to Kelly about before, she said you actually feel on the majority of it before the pandemic hit. So I was running what were the greatest challenges are releasing a film or getting at out there during the pandemic? That's pretty interesting because the film was almost completely done by the beginning of the pandemic and within a couple months in we were finished and we had presented it to our our producers Rep, who basically acts like an agent who represents the film, to try to sell it to two different distributors, and he was telling us that, you know, with this pandemic right now, you you would think, because even though it had been a few months and all productions were shut down and new projects weren't being shot at the time because everything had been down, for a few months. Everybody was in post production, everybody was in editing and...

...everybody was finishing all these films that had been shot before the pandemic. So there was a larger than average amount of films being finished and sent out to the market to to try to get picked up for streaming platforms and all that kind of thing. So we were advised to actually hold onto the movie, sit on it for six months or a year and wait until the pandemic had gone on longer, which, come to think of it, this guy must have had some really good sixth sense to know that it was going to be lasting for quite a while. But he was like, you know, sit on it for a little while, because there's going to come a point where all these projects that are coming finished right now and are sold off and everything, they're all going to dry up and then the services are going to be starved for new material because nothing new was being made at the time. So we ended up doing that. We sat on it for about six months and before we we shopped it out to the to the distributors, and because of that we were able to get some deals very quickly and we got good placement in terms of being released in the month of October, you know, scary movie season. So that ended up working out very well for us from the timing and everything, but it was really contrary to what we thought was going to happen. We thought, wow, here we are, with perfect timing, finishing this movie just as a predict pandemic is raging. But turns out everybody else had the same idea to so waiting for the right time to strike was was the right move. Yeah, it's very interesting and my next question actually is about the streaming services, because this is something that has always intrigued me. I've no idea how it works. If you guys can shed some lights and I'd be very curious. So your film is available to stream on several services, so it's on to be a number of countries and it's also on Amazon prime in some countries. So I was wondering how does that actually worked? You receive royalties for each of youwing how do you actually get, you know, something back from the people that was streaming it on those various services? So that's a good question. The way it works internationally speaking. So any any countries outside of North America that it has been distributed and we get paid by territory and it's a flat rate generally. So, for example, let's say ermony and any German speaking areas, we would make a flat rate deal. Let's say I'm just throwing out a number in tenzero euros or something like that, and they have the streaming rights for that territory. That way, it's not based on the number of streams or views or anything like that. Or they might even do a theatrical run or they might do a physical media run. We don't see any of that. We would only see the money from the initial flat rate sale. And it's basically like that most most of the world except for North America. North America falls under the jurisdiction of our domestic distributor and the way that works is where they have put us up on a bunch of streaming platforms, and ones like you mentioned like to be that have advertisements. It's free, but with ADS AD revenue is pretty much the way that we would see any kind of profit off of that. On a service like Amazon Prime, I'm not entirely certain how that does work because that's something that's entirely handled by the distribution company and we don't really see any of the paperwork on that. We don't see how it breaks down in terms of payment. But I do know some some other filmmaker colleagues of mine that have selfdistributed their films and have opted to put it up on Amazon prime say that the way that they get paid there, when they essentially upload their own film to Amazon Prime, is based on the length of time somebody watches. You get x amount of money per hour of content watched. So if... have a ninety minute movie and you get ten cents per hour, you would get fifteen cents for a ninety minute movie per per view of somebody wash it from head to tail. So and again, that's a number I'm just kind of throwing out. Realistically, I think it's even less than that. It's not fifteen cents, it's probably closer to five cents. I don't know the real number, but it's shockingly low and it would depress most people and probably steer them away from making films when they realize that. You know, you're not making money hand over fist for this kind of stuff, but realistically that's the way that it works. Yeah, if it's AD based, video on demand like to me, then ads are what pays the revenue for it subscription based like Amazon prime. It might be the length of time that somebody watches it. And then there is, you know, your standard bod for example, if there was a cable provider that had it available for somebody to rent for a night, three hundred and ninety nine or something like that, then that's an actual pay per view kind of scenario and then we would get a percentage of that. Okay, cool, not. So it's a very intriguing to know, because I'll sort of being like wondering, you know, you know, if I do like watch the film and to be and I keep playing it again and again and again, does the film like necessarily they get more money from it? Or was it just splaced in the initial view? But yeah, it does sound like it's a lot more complic head and what it looks like. And I guess the main thing might be for you guys just getting it out there, getting it seeing getting some positive feedback. So if it's getting like good reviews and everything, is that going to help you get more funding for future productions? Absolutely, yeah, the more are the more people like this one, the more it finds its audience easier. It will be to already have an audience behind you or maybe familiar with your work when you go on to make the next one. What a lot of people do, especially with low budget independent horror films, is they end up going the route of crowdfunding. Now, if you were to do that without any actors that anybody's familiar with or without any kind of name for yourself or a background in the genre to prove that you know what you're doing, it's going to be a very slow road, very hard to do. But if you have a couple successful films under your belt, people might know who you are, then it's easier to get it's easier to raise funding, it's easier to find name the actors that people are familiar with, that kind of thing, and it's just easier to get in the more desirable places in the market. And again I'm really specifically referring to the horror film, the indie horror films, because there's a there's a big, big market for it, but there's a couple key ingredients that you need to have to to really make sure that you find your biggest fans. And for this being our first outing into this genre, personally, I came from a comedy background and Kelly helped me produce my previous film, which is called nonstop to comic con and that one is is a comedy film and this is, you know, I wanted to try a little something different with this one, so I just dipped my toe into horror and I decided I really liked it. So so it's kind of inspiring me to want to do more. So it's important to have to have a little bit of I don't want to say success, but at least two have a decent film that's representative of your work out there in the market when you're trying to get funding for the next one, and I can say that's that's definitely ruin my experience what Randy talked about. One of the first art directors that I worked for. I helped him with fundraising and he had a cult following from one of his earlier films and he was able because of that, he was able to draw in his names Kenneth Manor and films displacement. Unfortunately, he's currently struggling with small health issues. So I hope he's okay...

...and can make another film, but I when I was helping him fund raised, you know we were able to all upon the audience and his fans and then also to help raise money from and to show, you know, evidence of success there. It's actors in the community who maybe one of vanity credit or or what not. When you're fundraising, it's surprising to see steps up to help fund in an append in its film. It definitely you have to get out there and and do a lot of work to make make it happen and raise the funds, but it is doable and possible. But again, it helps a lot if a movie has, our director has a following and yes, so hopefully we can get more people watching like dogs and following there. I'd love to see a sequel of this. I'd love to see what Randy does. Yeah, I see who could be interesting or look any sort of full up horror film would be really cool to see. I was just looking out there because you mentioned the non stop to comic con and it's got at this stay. Just got one person. Is viewed on let up box and I've managed to find a Trilett for it on vimeo. I know this is a bit off topic, but how did the previous film get distributed? So that's a that's enough. It's an interesting question because it's a little bit of a sort. Yeah, so that one is not publicly available right now because of, let's call it a legal issue. But we did the festival circuit within a number of years ago and it won over thirty awards, played a bunch of different festivals all over the world and was very popular and I think has more IMDB ratings than like dogs does. So a lot of people did rain it and I don't know if there's reviews written for it there. But so it hasn't been publicly released, unfortunately, and that's something that we're looking at fixing in the very near future. Thankfully. It's the kind of comedy that I like to write and I like to do. Is Timeless. It's not dependent on specific time and place. So even though it's been a copy years since we shot that one, it won't feel dated at all when it finally does get released. But hope, we're hoping in the very near future that it's going to be available for people to watch as well and it'll probably be available on a lot of the same platforms that like dogs is currently but as of right now it is currently unavailable. So, but that's all I can really say about that, unfortunately, and I won't add anything to that. Yeah, I know it's right. It's something good to look forward to eventually. Going to be curious to watch and see if I can see any connections between the two films. I don't know if they will be. I'm sure there might be some stylistic similarities and there's one cast member that's the same between the two movies as well. Okay, so I did have one more question. So what do guys look most forward to when filming in a post pandemic world? I know that's not necessarily anytime soon, but it will eventually get to the stage. It will be less restrictions, I guess. Maybe what you're most looking forward to and as anything that you might miss about the pandemic environment for filming and releasing films. Want to go first, Randy or me? You go first if you want to feel like. I've been going first a lot, for sure. Okay, well, there is little I will miss about filmmaking in during a pandemic. I did produce one series called Phoenix series in two thousand and twenty and trying to keep everyone safe when we are just barely learning things and in. You know, the covid testing. You know, it's just a huge worry. It's also a scheduling challenge of trying to make sure everyone's tested before they come to a production. If... have to change actors or change schedules, then suddenly that's all. You're rearranging things to make sure people can get tested again. It can add quite a bit to the budget, even like round ten percent more or less. And Yeah, so it's a logistical challenge and can add a lot of stress. The one positive thing I would say in this I don't think this is true now, but it was much earlier on, is there wasn't a lot of traffic. So for me having in and around la where we were filming, that was a pleasant surprise. Getting a location at a reasonable cost. We filmed it a hotel. That was a wonderful surprise. Yeah, so, so there were some perks, but now, you know, traffic is back and all those things are back and now we're still left with, you know, wanting to keep everyone safe and the struggles with covid testing. So that's still going but I definitely won't miss it if that does go away. I one of the things that I think I missed and I just wrapped a feature that I was helping a friend shoot just earlier this week, a science fiction film called Alien Planet, and it was so much fun and had a very small cast and they were all wearing prosthetics because they were all playing different alien races. And something that I that felt very stark to me that I didn't really notice when you're around people that are just normal human faces all the time, but I noticed very much when I was around these actors that were in all these prosthetics, that you know come lunch time and we're taking off our masks. That's the only time on a film set you can take your mask off or take it down as while you're eating. It was it just felt so weird looking across and seeing what these people look like without masks on, and I kind of came to this realization that I've been staring at people in masks so much between my day job working at a college in a film school and then when I work on set, that when I actually see people with their masks off, it feels weird and foreign to me now and that's that just feels bizarre to think about, but but it's where we are now. So I'm looking forward to a time when we all and, you know, just seeing each other's faces and not just around the lunch room that kind of thing. But I will say that I'm going to miss two things about about the pandemic. Number one, it's kind of on the the polar opposite of what I just said about masks. I actually do enjoy wearing a mask because I haven't been sick in about two years. I haven't had a cold, I haven't had a sniffle, I haven't had anything and it's been wonderful. And I work with college students who are constantly sick and you know, before, before the pandemic, I was getting sick fairly frequently just from working with all these kids. But it's been kind of Nice not having to worry about that the last couple of years. That's that's one of the things I'll miss and maybe I'll kind of carry it on for a while when I'm working at the college. I'll continue wearing a mask even after the pandemic is done. But the other thing was it was actually kind of Nice being able to do a certain amount of work from home. There's a lot of stuff it come come to find out. There are a lot of avenues within the film industry that don't necessarily require you to have meetings facetoface or be working in the same building, that kind of thing, especially with post production, but even even preproduction. Being able to meet virtually share documents and be able to kind of have these living documents that everybody can be updating and creating in real time is really nice and I feel like they were are still around before the pandemic, but people weren't really using them because they didn't really all necessarily know about them so much. But now it's something that I feel like we're kind of dependent on it. Maybe it will also carry forward with that as well. But I really like the fact that even though we were forced to be physically a part, we are still we were never too far away to be able... be creative and still work on a collaborative medium like film. So yeah, okay, Wilson Um. Is that anything else you want to talk about? Actually, I would like to make a comment on on our cast for like dogs. I was really happy with the casting process and randy working with him as a director. That's one thing he's very much he knows what he's looking for and but yet he was open to suggestions from Amas, the other producer and myself. So I really enjoyed that part. But I do really like cast we worked with and, you know, I could see them definitely going places in the future in that when he was mentioning some of the positive reviews we got, Anna Belle Barrett, she was mentioned in several of those and ignatio and our cast. So that's something I was really happy to see. Like it's something I saw during auditions and it's something I saw on set and it was just really nice to hear some other people acknowledging their acting and and also acknowledging that they're seeing this in a very low, very very low budget film, which you don't always but she don't always find the best actress for those and I so that's something I feel proud about. And and of course being in a single location is something really worked for us as a low budget film. But yeah, definitely the actors and I look forward to seeing what they do in their careers as well. Thank you for saying that, Kellie, because I definitely don't want to leave out the actors. They were amazing to work with. It was probably like like I said, I came from a world of comedy and I understood the value of cohesive ensemble cast, finding the right people to play off of each other, finding the right personalities to embody these characters and really make them their own. And I don't think we could have found a better cast. And I was so happy with who we ended up with. And Kelly's right. Some of the best reviews that we got really were praising the cast, not the writing. Nothing that I necessarily it was totally the cast, you know, and and that's great and and, like Kelly said, you know, when you're working with really low budget films, awesome. oftentimes you're not working with professional actors or you're working with people that are just starting out in their acting career, because those are the people that you can afford. But with our particular cast, you know, we had a couple of our cast members this was their first feature film, but you would never know it because they absolutely brought their a game. They did amazing and the neat thing is everybody was genuinely very friendly with each other. And the way that we did it, because we shot out in the middle of nowhere, so we got an AIRBNB and we had all the actors staying together for the duration of the shoot so they could go home and rehearse the lines together. They eat their meals together, so they became very, very friendly, like family by the end of it, and I think that really kind of shows on film, especially the characters that need to portray friends to be friends, because they actually are still friends to this day. You know, here we are two years after the film was shot and you know, some of them still talk on a regular basis. I think that's fantastic. But that's something that I'm probably most proud of with this entire project was putting the right people in it and just trusting in them to get the performance, to really make everything work the way that it does, and they deserve so much credit for that. Do and while we're giving credit, I'll just give a quick shout out to the crew to that pulled everything together. It's limited resources and they did a great job. Absolutely. One of the benefits of working at a college, particularly in the film department, is we...

...are always meeting the next generation of filmmakers and we try to do a project like this every few years where I get to kind of take them outside of the classroom environment outside of the academic environment and say okay, you've done student films, now let's make an independent film, let's make something a little bit bigger, and it's a great opportunity for them. They get great experience and it's a fun way to work with the crew that we've been teaching for the last few years and here they are. This is kind of like their final test before sending them off into the wild, wide world of filmmaking. That's awesome, Randy. That's it's so well put them. It's really great to hear. And Yeah, I'd say just everything comes together really well and like dogs. I did mention before that there wasn't a fellel couple of the top twists, but the whole thing does is a very professionally looking film. It looks great, even though it's just a single location. They wouldn't be able to tell the other budget limits with the US sets I just look are great and yeah, the cost. Yeah, they all seem very professional. Doesn't seem like I'mmate sure or anything. Everybody's in there. They're playing the roles well and the terror that spelt by the characters is entirely believable. So thanks Kelly and thanks, Randy for joining us on the PODCAST. Keep any but that's right. Thank you. For anybody WHO's listening to us, try and find like dogs, it is streaming online or a lot of services. It's on to being Amazon primate even countries. It might be available one of those streaming services in your country. Okay, thanks listening, guys, join US next time. You have been listening to talking images, official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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