Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 22 · 2 years ago

Interview with Mary Guillermin - author of John Guillermin: The Man, the Myth, the Movies

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

John Guillermin, the director of Rapture, The Towering Inferno, King Kong, Never Let Go, Guns at Batasi and a long line of other films is best known for his bad temper, and there have been no comprehensive books on his work.

This has changed: His wife Mary Guillermin has launched a large project to do John's work justice, and the book: John Guillermin: The Man, The Myth, The Movies is now out.

We sat down with her before the release, and had an absolutely fantastic chat about John's life and work: and learned so much!

Did you for instance know that Patricia Gozzi did not know English when she played the lead in Rapture and learned all her lines phonetically?

Or that he really did not want to do King Kong 2, and tried to talk his producer out of it.

We get the answers to several of your listener questions, leaned why he seemed to accept any movie (he really did!) and heard so many stories, including why he disliked Paul Newman but loved Steve McQueen.

I know we all had so many exciting moments here - including some films we had no idea we would discuss - and great insight into John Guillenmin as both a man and filmmaker.

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. This interview was prerecorded before the launch of Mary Gilliman's new book, John Gilliman, the man, the mid the movies, now available all Amazon. Welcome back everyone. I'm Chris and, as always, I'm doing by Tom. Hello everyone, it's Tom from England. I'm a huge fan of John Gilliman's films, in particular rapture, which struck a chord with me, and I'm excited to discuss much of his way today. Fault I, it's so from Australia. I've seen a nineteen films by John Gillerman and my favorite film of hears is death on an isle. And Adam, hi, this is Adam. I watched rapture in the summer and Sim San. I've watched many of John Goleman's films and I've become a really big fan and my favorite film is also rapture. For this episode we have a very special guest for you. Mary Gilliman, the wife of the late John Gillerman, was the director of massive hits such as the towering inferno, King Kong and original death in a Nile, but it is also the director of a beautiful and incredibly overlooked black and white film to One thousand nine hundred and sixty five rapture, and it is this film that in some ways made this conversation happen. Rapture, tragically overlooked at its time, to give an instant fan favorite at ICM fmcom. I mean it's almost incredible how it happened, from one user seeing it, posting a picture simply showing the beautiful black and white cinemascope visuals, as we also quick review, to just more and more people seeing it, sharing their reviews, sharing the visuals, until almost every single regular had seen it. I mean, this is really a community love story come true. Every year we do a top five hundred list covering obscure films, and Rapture, of course, has made it onto the top ten year after year after year. It's one of our very favorite films and also part of the forum identity that we will continue to champion. And it's just through this that Mary found the review of our very own palm contact him and revealed four things that made us extremely excited. One that rapture, among all of his gigantic films, was actually John's very favorite of his own work. To that she's writing the first comprehensive book on her husband and his work. Three that two of the chapters we dedicated to rapture, and for that she will come on talking images in this episode. May will tell us all about her upcoming book, which I'm sure many of her listener's a very excited to have in the book shelves. Talk through rapture. Don't do any as the director, and if you're Nice, you might even share a couple of stories that did not even make it into the book. See, I'm so incredibly happy to have you here with us to day, Mary, and you have so many questions for you. Those are listeners, by the way. We have a few listener questions for you as well, but let's start with the basics. Tell us a little bit about yourself and the Book I've been working on. Okay, well, that's the first thing to know about the book is it is a work of community because there are eight contributors who doing it for the love of John's films and and myself. I'll stay on that now I've started on that track. After John Died, I thought I got to do something about this. There are no books about his work. This is a major figure in film, on the major unrecognized figure and film. He did like thirty eight films and there's was nothing until his death. There was nothing in print about him in the Sept a few paragraphs about his admittedly this is true bad temper. And after his death the entry on Wikipedia was more full because they had the avituies to draw on. So right away pretty much, I started thinking, how can I get a book about John into the world, and I wrote to Neil Sinyard, who is the editor, a Co editor, of a wonderful series that should not have ignored. John, called British filmmakers and he said, Oh, yes, that's a wonderful idea. John's very underappreciated, but don't go with British filmmakers. They're very, very slow. We've been slow, course, because it's five years later, on in September, that John Died. But there you go. The difficult project upon off. So he supported me right from the beginning and he asked around among his film academic friends and I looked for people and that's we ended up with eight contributors and you'll be...

...pleased to know that they're actually three chapters. On that chure. We have a chapter. I'm going to forget to her last name, but a chapter by a film academic called Melanie something, which is, if you like, a the way that film chapters are often done, telling the story and then giving her take on it. We have a chapter by Brian Hoyle, who teaches at the University of Aberdeen Film there and he's written wonderful chapter about how John Uses the camera. And then I've written a chapter called viewing rapture in the era of Hashtag me to to address directly the fact that there's a very big age difference between the two stars. And I've done it from the point of view of someone who was groomed by a high school teacher and I'm open about my own experience there and say rapture was a healing film. And I look at why was rapture healing of my personal trauma? Why was it healing when it's portrayings factually a similar situation? I'll go back to the first part of your question. I met John when I was forty five and he was seventy two and it was amazingly love at first sight. One of my most vivid memories is when I came to we met at around Easter Ninety eight and when he was over in London and I came for a brief visit in May Ninety eight and I my most vivid memory is standing in the kitchen listening to him tell him stories and his telling me about his friendship with Steve McQueen and Fred Astaire. And I'm going looking at him, I'm thinking, you know, is quite lyned at seventy two, as many people are, and I'm looking at I think, God, this is gorgeous looking man, old but gorgeous, telling me about Steve McQueen and Fred Stare. Like Fred Stare was like huge favorite my friends and I watched his films over and over again, you know, his dancing films. So I was very starry eyed and kind of amazed and what I thought in that moment was I'm not going to be too big for this man. You know, I was very I've always been an intense person and I often rather intimidated. Then and after he died I saw, oh, I kind of got that the wrong way around. I was he saw that I was a big enough personality for him. He was a larger than my personality and he wisely said to me, don't marry an old man. I'm impossible and I'm an old comudgeon and things that were true, but I was because he was honest about himself. And in the book, talking of honest about himself, the first chapter is a paper he wrote in one thousand nine hundred and ninety after he nearly died due to an emergency operation, and he is so honest about himself and I won't give anything away, but it's really great start to the book. And I'm just going to say because his aunt was honest about himself, we navigated and negotiated around the fact that, you know, he had had a lot of trauma, he did drink too much, he did have a bad temper. Take that all as read. He was amazing and wonderful and so passionate about life to the very end. You know he he get excited watching snooker, is famous his favorite, sorry game on TV, or tennis to not as excited, but we spent hours when he wasn't very mobile, watching snow contennis together, when we played pool up until in the pool room, up until two weeks before he died, which was very sudden, and he's still bang his que on the floor and he did a good shot and you know, he was just a person with the most life that I've ever known. So grateful to have spent seventeen years with him, which I didn't know I'd get that long of course, and meeting him when he was seventy two. So he was very special person. Really really happy that we're only a few months of this book, which just say one more thing before my long speech ends. But it will be probably the most unusual film book that's been published because it has his autobiographical take on himself in which is incredibly honest about things like his bad temper and what you know, the psychological things behind that. And then because of...

...my contribution about you know, who remembered the book was the books called John Gilliman, the man, the miss the movers, and the myth part is, for me anyway, debunking this is only a bad tempered old so and so sing and showing what the complex and wonderful personality he was as and I'm very I follow his lead. But in his unpublished article he was incredibly honest. I follow his lead. I'm really honest about his faults and about his how he was in private how loving he was and how loyal he was. So is that there's going to be a real to found fans of his work. There's going to be a lot of satisfying material actually getting to know him a bit as well as getting to know some of his films. We couldn't cover them all, obviously. Well, that was absolutely wonderful, Mary. What other films still be included? Let me just tell you that when you were saying how it built out, Tom and told me a little bit of that, but how it built up about people liking rapture and it getting to the top five hundred every year. When I from the moment I first knew John, he would say my best film was rapture and only about half a dozen people have seen it, and it was. He was heartbroken about that. He didn't like any of his other work until I started collecting them and we looked at them together and he'd go, HMM, not bad. By the time he died he was reconciled to his work. It was much happier about his work and that was partly because of the wonderful Nick Redmond and Judy cargo. They had it on there when they started twilight time, which releases old, old films. They had rapture on their radar even before I saw they were launching to twilight time and John wrote them. They were already after rapture and the recognition it got once it was released on Blue Ray and DVD really warmed the last few years of John's life because he knew it was his masterpiece and it was. Is. That's not what you asked me. What did you ask Oh, other films. Okay, so the book lay out like this. The books. The books laid out like this. We begin with John's paper, then there's this is the probable order. Then Neilson Yard wrote about some of John's early film. So he wrote about a bit about is. It's mostly about never let go, which is a wonderful one thousand nine hundred and sixty thriller that's kind of out of time, I think, not really dated, and he kind of took the line about how what a good director of actors John was, the performances he got out of Richard Todd in and never let go, the performances he got out of Peter Servers in never let go more so, the Toria doors. I think there's another film mentioned in there, but the main focus is never let go. Then Kate Lee's is the granddaughter of after Dent who was the film British film industry person who supported on in his early years as a director and she still owns a Delphi studio that John did full of five films with. So she and someone called Vic from the forgotten his second name for the moment, from the British Film Institute have written a chapter about the not just John's involvement, what was happening to British cinema in that period late for his early FIF is how the Odeon and ABC had all the distribution sewn up and how hard it was for independent studios like Adelphi to make a dent on that market. So it's like an almost like a sociological review, as well as looking at John's contribution to that period. And then I've written paper called John Gillerman a lover of femininity in all its fullness, something like that titles and I look at how how unus I mean, this is interesting right. I knew John Liked me for being feminine and I knew that he also loved my strength. And I told you I'm as psychotherapist. I have a whole theory about the way the human psyche works that I just said. I cannot say I have a masculine part. I am not going to give away my strength and power to say I have a masculine part. I perceive women as having a strong side that is different from male strong side. So I developed this way of looking at he human beings. That is I'll keep brief about this, but it's relevant to John that I talk about having the solar feminine and Lunar Feminine, Solar Masculine...

...and Lunar Masculine. It's basically active and powerful is the Sun Sol aside, and quieter and at rest is the lunar side. I didn't realize how strongly John and I shared a vision of the fullness of femininity after he'd gone, till I was writing this book, when I was really writing this chapter, I thought this is, you know, it's extraordinary this. He had this whole vision that that I've laid out in my paper write in it. I'll give you a good example. Right in his first film, He was twenty four years old. He has the that's called torment or paper Galas, and there's two brothers who can't crime writers and the secretary, housekeeper and the brother that she does end up marrying at the end of the film, or she's going to marry him, I should say. He says to her, Joe and what are you going to do when you leave us? And she says, Oh, I don't know, I'm drifting around the till I find something interesting. And he says, aren't you going to get married? And she's can't remember. It's that dialog now, but she says why on earth? Quite sharply, she says, what on Earth makes you think I would want to get married? Is said. He said, well, I thought that's what women wanted. And Jones says, oh, sometimes you'll really dentse Jim. Well, this he made that. In one thousand nine hundred forty nine, the whole of the s women were expected to be ideal mothers and wives. In one thousand nine hundred and fourteen nine, someone telling the hero that he's stupid because he thinks all women wants to get married. So I think he had a extraordinary, extraordinary perceptiveness into into how women feel and react, and I won't give away why I think that, because it makes reason. His autobiographical esthect more interesting if I don't give it away. But he he was one of a kind of person. He was really amazing person. I think rapture shows that right. rapture shows an incredible person. He was, yes, without a dog, incredible director as well. Oh, Christopher, I just remembered. I I lost my way. I was telling you about the film's I am get a bit enthusiastic about John. Okay, so that's the early section. Then then middle section is devoted to rapture. So there's the three I've already described, the three chapters I've already described. No other film gets more than one chapter. Oh, I forgotten. There's we do a little short thing, Neil and I between us we do the two children's films John Did. That's in the early section. To after the rap which is section, there's a reprint of an article from film comment by Olaf Ruler, who is an and international film critic, and when John Read that article two thousand and thirteen he was still with us. He said, this man really gets my work. So we've included that with commission from film comment. And then the last section of the book perhaps predictably, covers the three blockbusters. So there's a chapter each on death on the Nile, King Kong and towering inferno, and they heard that John this an actual or didn't actually like the towing a Fille at all. Is that true? Oh, it's really true. When Alan was very fired up by his success with the poseide and adventure and he fought really hard, there were two books that came out very close together about a size glasscraper going on fire, and I won't go into the details because that's in in the paper that that was written about towering Furno by Bret Hart, who's that's an interesting story because he's not a film academic or critic. He's a huge fan of John's who was inspired to be a director because of think it was King Kong and towering inferno and we met accidentally and so he said, all right, I'll write about towering infernow for the book. So so that John would have really like that to have a fan write a book. Cannot just a critic. I've forgotten the question that I was following. Again, we actually got all the way to the end. Now you summarize the book perfectly. Yeah, I know, I was. I was going to tell I was going to add something, though. But Anyway we'll will then let it ride. If you don't remember, I what track I was, I think out of all tell why he'd why didn't, why didn't like it. Yeah, so we Allen wanted to direct ouring inferno and he'd arrange this joint deal because there were two companies after the film.

The books and the studios knew enough not to let him, but they made this really difficult arrangement. They gave John the direction of the actors. I know we're all in the direction of the action sequences and John would one of the things I loved about John was that things that hadn't gone the way he wanted in the film industry he'd till still tell stories about them with huge passion, right up until his death. so He'd go. I tried to persuade with Allan to use for cameras so it could really cut and get beautiful fire action scenes and in order to try and get him to do because there's lost energy, as you can imagine. You know, I drew up this story board of how it could be done and he wouldn't use for cameras. Head any too. And then John would hold his hands out, certainly say and the Fire Sin Quens is just C but I think it's passionate about how slow the fire sing cans were, which no one else for him says. But he had this vision that wasn't fulfilmed and so he did. He had a terrible more time on on set and he loved the actors, especially Steve McLean, but that you know. He likes to be in control and so did we Amman, so we don't need need to say any more about that. You can imagine how hard that was for both of them. And when Allan tried to say he was the director of the film, it was finished and John took it to the DGA, the director's build of America, and one the right to be called the director to the film. But that's how bad that part of it was. I'm sorry to hear that that working on the towering inferno was such a or experience for our John, especially because it auch a wellknown film. Now I do actually agree with John that it's from his best work, and especially because he did the movie skyjacked a couple of years before tarn inferno, which might have helped him win the contract, and that skyjack is just such a dynamic disaster film. It's not just a disaster film, it's a mystery and they're also the trying to work out who the bomber is. It's like a very different to airport which came to a couple years before that. It's really intense towards the end and was, I don't know, I found a very powerful film when I was really watching Sky Jack here to when I rewatched arn inferno, and I might even say entire inferno, that actually find the earning sequence in adventure in the hot fields is actually more enticing for me and I found that much more intense than pretty much anything in the town inferno. Well, there you go. I mean Julie Cargo, the person who rights screen notes for twilight time, was hoping to do an essay on taring inferno because she says it's what the best of the disaster genre, but she wasn't able to do that because of mixed illness. But from the point of view you're saying it, that's really interesting, because there's no question it's not John's best and even if it might be one of the best disaster films. So I think you've I haven't actually seen the fire sequence and adventures in the hot fool, because I bought copy on Amazon and it stopped working just before the fire. So I've only seen those of adventure in the hot field. But so I think that's really perceptive what we just said, and John would have agreed with you if he was here to hear it. It's good. I'm marry. Wait. So I've seen main seen films as well, and I find it really interesting how you're talking about femininity, because actually my top three favorites are rapture, thunderstorm and adventure, not fields, and all of them has have a female character as the main actress in it. I'm really interested in if you've seen funderstorm or if you know what John's opinion was of it, because it's one of our favorites now having recently watched it. Right, I've got I do. I have seen the understorm. I do write about that in my look at his attitude femininity. He he didn't talk about thunderstorm very much in his collection of stories. I remember him saying telling me about a time when this is not about the film. I remember him telling me about when d in the Christian used to sunbathe nude on the beach and all the crew would really ensure be looking at but he he didn't tell me much about the actual making of it. But I suspect you'll find that bit of my paper interesting. I do look at in take a...

...few paragraphs to look at that. Are you able to tell us? I don't know if you'd ever say it for the bit, but are you able to tell us what you thought of the portrayal of her character? Yeah, well, I trace this in a few films and John's that the way that that you may not have seen four days. If you haven't, it's produced by renowned pictures. You should see that. That's interesting in light of what I'm going to say as well. But in four pictures the the why the board wife of busy businessman is so bored, she's adulterous and she even thinks about murdering her husband. And in thunderstorm there's men just fall for the need character Maria and fight over her like really viciously, and they have wherever she's been. She warns people that she brings trouble. In a conventional F s films those two characters would have been comes in a negative light. You know, you weren't supposed to be indulterous and even think about murdering your husband. In F S films, supposed to be an ideal wife and mother, and you're not sup you're going to be to blame if men want to fall all over you and want to fight over you and John doesn't. And in thunderstorm the whole village blames I can't remember that name, something like Magdalena. There's a film about her, much you know, ten years ago, something about her, beautiful woman who conabor it, you know who was provided spectral services to the Germans, and the whole village attacks her own ripsy close on. It's a bit like a later version of what happens in thunderstorm. And neither of those films in not only do not blame the female protagonist, but the critical eye is cast on in the first one four days. I say first because he did it earlier. You are led to sympathize with her about her bardom and staltifying life. And in thunderstorm, if you're open to seeing it, because it's not explicitly stated, if you're open to seeing it, you can see that she is almost like she's the victim. The storyline says, look at all the destruction she reeks, but she's like the still center of this storm of male luves and desire for domination. And that's how it film, that it's the way men are, but that produce this result, and I do think that's one of the incredible you know, I think really is a poet in the visionary as much as he was a filmmaker. Not because he didn't get enough recognition, which was a lot to do with his tendency to argue with the people with power. He didn't get the opportunities he could have had. So that kind of all that early promise in you know, people who like John's work weren't they found his early films. They can see where he could have gone after rapture if he'd had more power to make the films he really wanted to make, because his artistic, unusual vision of life shows in his earlier films much more than his latter films, even though they're lovely in their own way, especially definitely as a favorite of mine. But his amazing work is in the films to raptually. Really yes, thanks so much for sharing that. What you said about funderstorm is is that is actually exactly what I was thinking, you know, I watched that film and I think the main character in it, I think she's portrayed as completely innocent and the rest of the tone and the men are the ones who are causing all the problems. So I definitely took it as her being the innocent one. And it's very interesting that you mentioned about his earlier films compared to his later films, because I haven't watched death on the nail yet. That's the next one I'm trying to watch. But of the ones I've seen, and I probably seen about half of John's films, know a lot of my favorites, I would say here the S and s. So it's quite interesting here you talk about the artistic choices, or his lack of choices he might have had later on. So yeah, I think that really interesting, the kind of perhaps a change in the types of films he made later on in his career. Well, let me say something about that, because he had a bit of an unusual attitude. He was quite modest, you know. We didn't believe he was handsome, but he was handsome right up until he died, you know, and you always, until the last few years, was like always looked a lot younger. So he was like a really modest person. There's a really important thing about rapture that down sound. It really wants to the film with producer Bozzi in it, for salubrious reasons, unfortunately, but Darl's and it was a producer who left the director alone. John Loved Darrel...

...for letting him have the fulfillment of his artistic vision. He never came on the set, he never delivered those little producer notes that the vane of filmmakers lives. He let John completely enter into his vision of the film and John was eternally grateful for that, because what happened after that, in particular, was he moved to America. He had to follow the money the Britain. American film Americans invested in the British film industry during the war and after, and then the money gradually went away and he couldn't sustain his he felt he couldn't sustain his family if he stayed in the Britain and in the British film industry. So he was able to go and work, you know, and actually lived in Hollywood, and not Hollywood, but live in La and he told me he just taught what work he was given because he'd needed to support his family. That's how he looked at it. He looked at himself as a provider. He regretted the decision he made in the s to refuse to let his wife work because of them having children. He thinks that was he thought that was mistake of his, but he, you know, in the s he made the decision. That was a normal s decision. So he so he took you know, he stopped her working as an actress. That's how they met. She was an actress and some of his films and he took his responsibility as a father and husband really seriously and he literally said I took any job that came to me. And he has a nephew who's a filmmaker who held out for wanting to waite, make his own stuff and so on, and has made his challenging that's made far much. I won't say his name, but has made far, you know, it's made far fewer than films because of you know that. I'm not criticizing him. I'm just saying that that's his choice. But John was say when we were together. He's saying take the work, you know, just do anything you never know what opportunities are going to come and all I'll know, although that's true, the opportunity that didn't come was the opportunity to develop what he had in rapture. And yet I'm not saying I mean I I really enjoy calm and I really, really, really liked us on the Nile because I'm a big as Christophan anyway. But it's so functuous. No, it is as beautiful. It's really beautiful and and such fun. He managed to do good work, but he definitely wasn't able to do anything other than get glimpses of the artist in him. And Sheina, for example, she in a queen of the jungle. His son was killed in a car crash in the middle of the film in that and so there and a number of reasons why it's a bit wobbly in the critics. I is one of which is using a horse painted like a zebra for the heron or bride. But he sat me down to watch Shena because he said, I want to show you the bit from his son cry I want to show you how where I come in, how he put it, but it's basically saying I tried to put my artisticness in and want to show you where I was trying to be artistic, and it would talk about the wildlife scenes at the opening and what it felt like getting the shots of the flamingos, flings the lake, and he's like so, Paul John. He wasn't didn't have quite the power to make the film's he wanted to make, but he never stopped trying to be artistic and it's a bit sad to think what he might have done if he'd probably if he'd been a more even tempered man. His best friend and producer, Christian fairy, the first time we met in London in one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight, he took me aside and said to me, if only John could have stopped fighting with all the producers and people with power, who knows what he could have done. Something like that, and this was ten years after John's very last film. He was his rent was still caring that John had lost the chance to really fulfill his vision because he just couldn't resist being a pain in the neck to the people in power. I think it's fascinating that you mentioned the shots of Wildlife, Mary, because John wits in some beautiful locations across the world. You've got Egypt and death on Nile, New York and Hawaii, for King Kong, and then places like Ken you for Tsm's greatest adventure. Did John have a specific favorite location? Mary shot at all? Well, he did really love Kenya. That's where Sheena was shot as well. His wife grew up in Kenya and so between the two of them they had...

...a great love of Kenya. And when he was too old to be planning this, I said too old, John, we can't do this. What we might beat back and your age, we can't do this. What he did was he got in touch with the someone he really cared about in Kenya who led so far has and he said, I really want you to see Africa every I said, Johnny, what really interested in Africa? He said, I really, really wanted David Africa and I want to go on Safari. Like he was maybe eighty five or eighty six. Oh, shore, we didn't. We didn't do it. That was a pipe dream. But I would say Kenya was his favorite occasion. And yes, he was very attached to the north shore. That not that all. Shows Valley where he think it wasn't off shots of Malley, but where he I think that's the right island from where he filmed King Kong. He as I did love the countryside, he moved to Maniboo to be out of Los Angeles, where he and I did for the first six years of our marriage, and and then we moved to Panga, which, if you haven't heard about it is a very kind of it was originally. It is the First Canyon out of La and it's wooded and mountainous, tons of wildlife, and that's that's where we moved and it was first populated by Mexican ranchers, and to call them like there was a robber tight urse and the that hung out there. Then there were hippiers and the SS and it's like a kind of semi wild west place even now. That's where he ended up. That sounds brilliant, Mary, and it's also fascinating to think about the location shooting in rapture, because these studing scene of the Brittily coast. It's like a perfect setting for the emotional charge. Calling of age tail and his exquisite coming with kind of paints a power awful picture of a young girl community interview, transition to womanhood's me Mattu is a remarkable film and I'm so pleased it discovered it through before and that it is also John's favor out all the films it made. It's just brilliant and ownerstone marry that rapture resonated with you want a personal level and I would love to him more about your experience. Right well, now when I watch raptor, I don't quite understand why I had this feeling so strongly that I'm about to tell you, because now I don't think it's well, what it was was that for about the first five times I watched the film I couldn't tell. I was so into Agnes and her way of looking at things I just every time the film ended, I went, did you know the scarecrow was real? I don't know. I don't understand. Now I can't regain that experience because she says, she tells us very clearly at the end I always knew you were real, but the film car such a spell on me that could cause of all the bits where she tells Dean Stockwell know you're mine. I made you. I brought that car such a spell on me that I really believe that reality more than that, she knew he was a human being all along. So that was very strong part of watching rapture for me. But I had a very confusing time in my teenage years. I was very lonely. I didn't fit in school when I was in and the high school teacher that paid me attention was about the only person that did. Write seemed to see me as a valuable person. And when you fifteen you think things are consensual. So there was like a strong petting relationship. I don't know if you know that term. It might be a bit British, but not intercourse, in other word. And it went off for three years and I would felt very guilty because he was married and I would try to break it off and he would kind of seduce me with the way he looked at me back in and unfortunately it was the most intense sexual experience of my whole life because it messed up the rest of my life in that way. But so I would have been. I might have been a no less subtle, tender, sensitive film I might have. By the time I saw rapture I had come to terms of the fact it's not consensual when you're fifteen and just because nobody talked about sexual abuse in the S. that's what it was.

So I had kind of gained a different perspective on my personal experience and have some anger around it. So I could have watched a film with that plotline and the been incensed and recognize my own experience in that way. And instead what happened was, well, I just flashed in my mind on them running on the beach. It Dean stock while character played that part with such tenderness and genuine love of aness. I can't say it the French way, sorry that I would just have tears stream about my face for maybe the first ten times I saw the film and I just felt that poor little fifteen year old in me. It was so confused. I've got tears in my eyes now saying it. Just I felt a hell do think in a very tender way. Now, I suppose I've never really said this before, but I suppose felt recognized in the sensinality and sexuality that I had as a fifteen year old, but held, but nurtured and seen in all that Gawky isn't quite the right word, but seen in that kind of fresh and awkward phase of life. But held so beautifully by Dean stockhold character, who offset was very big brotherly to Patricia Guzzi. He was very protective of her and as an adult I have put this in my payper on rapture. I've a little bit of discomfort with the fact that she was only fourteen the half during filming when she's lying in bed with adult men. So it's a bit difficult about the actress, I think. But in terms of the film, I have watched that film in company with my women friends, several of whom had incest or sexual abuse history, and no one's ever been upset by it. They've always been captivated by it. I just think that such a testament to John Sensitivity and his understanding of something really eternal in the human the human condition like I don't even haven't watched it so many times and even knowing the time that was made where there wasn't such a conscious awareness and dark side of life, it's a little bit like a miracle to me that he could pull that off, that this de Stockholm was twenty nine. You're not told the characters, but he was twenty nine. She was sinking in half only and he pulls off for most people this ascendency of tenderness and over the discomfort of the large as different. I'm just so to ask a couple of very quick questions. So you mentioned Patricia Ghazi and another favorite on the forum is called I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's called Sundays and Sabell yes, English tape or have you seen that film? Yes, I was just wondering what you thought of that, because I know that also deals with the relationship, not it's not a sexual relationship in the film, but the relationships in a young girl, Patricia Guisi, and an older man. So I was interested in what you've thought of that. If I know it's not about John's film. So you don't have to say no, no clause. No, absolutely. I'm glad you brought it up. I nearly brought it up but I thought I I wouldn't go on and on. But well, I'd like to draw your attention and your listeners attention to three videos that are on Youtube. They were made for the DVD version of Sundays with Sabelle. There's an interview with Patricia Ghazzi, an interview with Hardy Krueger and one with the director get his name right, good, his first name, but Borg you on, Sergio Borgian on. Don't quite know how to pronounce it. They all the director was absolutely clear that the relationship was pure and innocent, and Patricia Gazzi tells the story, I quote this in my paper on Rapture, that the day before the interview was filmed, which was must have been around two thousand and fourteen, when they did the DVD, she found her father and she's she said, I'm not going to remember the full dialog that she said, you know, what did you think of me acting with such a much older man? And he said no, no, it's good, I knew it was pure, or something like that. It's a Muchee longer section that I quote it in my paper, and he says something like we didn't think about things in those days. What you know? Let's give it a name, pedophilia, even though it's a bit like match, even though it's in the film that people in the film think it's pedophilia. The director and the actors...

...and actress and the actor an actor were totally living inside. This is a pure, instant relationship because the hardy Kruger's character had been damaged by his Vietnam War experience. He is in a sense childlike. The film sees it more as a relationship between two children, with Patricia Guzzi as the stronger character. She talks about that. She talks about feeling that when she was filming at twelve years old. How she's says, stronger character, more mature character, and the relationship wasn't you know, John said, they're surprise here. John said she was the finest actress he ever worked with and, as with many other people, are little sad that she didn't choose that career path. But she hated acting and he feels it was because her mother pushed him into acting. But this is a bit of an aside, I know, but she would run away and hide in the caves before filming and the whole crew had to go outlook for her before the filming could start. So that's some of the background to why she didn't stay in films. But what you know, what an actress, my goodness, in both films she's absolutely superb ran so start was way fascinating. Like I said that some days and Sadel is another other favorites on the forum and I you know, I viewed it kind of like you were saying that it was an innocent relationship. I just wanted to know if you have spoken to Patricia Guzzi, if you or if you know if you've been in touch at any point with anyone that John worked with in terms of actors or actresses. I haven't spoken to Patricia Guzzi and I don't know if I got time now, but I'm interested in trying to contact her and see if she'd write a little. You know, paragraph are too for the book, but I haven't loyalized that yet, did I? You know, I came along ten years after he came into John's my ten years after directing gave him up, as how he put it. I didn't give up directing. Directing gave me up. So I didn't. I didn't think I met anyone who filmed with I met a few people. He worked with the crew of his and things. I held a memorial by showing rapture in a local restaurant, had a horn at it and a couple of people came all the way from North Carolina who had worked with him. Ill fated kingcome live. So now and again, in a measure, a lot of people who say to me I became x and the film industry because I watched King Kong or towing and Ferna. There's the ones that come out. I watched them as a child and I knew I wanted to be in that world. And I've I mean I say a lot, but it's probably a six people. But it's still interesting how the how they have the same story. First film I ever thought was can hold every inferno and made my mind up and wanted to be a director. I wanted to be an editor, wanted to be the film industry. Sometimes, and I ask Mary, because you bring up something very interesting about how John said that directing gave me up and his last film was an HBO film with Chris Christofferson called the tracker, or dead or alive, as it's been released only with the in Australia. Have you seen that? Oh, yeah, say I've seen everything that's available. Okay, because I think it all I or the track, how we want to call it, is very interesting. Comparison peace to rapture, because it both cases there's a young girl involved in some sort of possible last thing you've got the other Scott Willson character Ian the trucker, and he likes who, as he sees, the young girla whatever is like or Princess, and he spends, you know, half the film or whatever try to give its his twelve year old girl to love him and he's the villain of the piece as it's just a very different look at the young girl older man relationship to rapture. So I was just wondering if you had any thoughts about that. Wasn't that interesting? Now I didn't remember that. I've only seen it once and interested to say it again. Now you said that, so I can't answer about the comparison. Yeah, I guess I have to see it again. I don't know it's right anything that first it's an interesting film. I think, you know, John ended his career on a really positive note with that, because I know he had a few, you know, pickups, I guess maybe you would say in the s they think, you know, with death and now and the trucker at the end there. Thought it was a really great into the career and the young girls subplot is really just a subplot in the tracker. It's not the main part of it. The main part of it...

...is about the Christ grist office and character, but he is tracking down Scott Wilson, who are, amongst being just a murderer and everything, is also a pedophile whose extreme interest in this girl who's father just killed. Right. Sorry, that's okay. You got say much about it without being frish in memory that. So Hona just thought it was a very interesting film and interesting comparison piece to rapture. Well know, it is an interesting insight into John as a director. Was I was told at his memorial one of the people that work from him that John was offered innumerable television part to direct and he refused use them all. And if you look at his filmography on IMDB, you'll see that in those early years he produced not only one or two feature films a year but like quite a lot of television episode. And for people interested in John There's a fictionalized version of those early years written by his first wife. It's called Mary Lacy and AC why? And she she turns John into a television director, because I think the early years of their marriage were like dominated by him working so hard in television as well as film. You know, it was just like never there. I think, and I thought I found that interesting when I heard this new piece of information that John was off the job. So they just went feature films, and I think that part of the con you know, if you have if you imagine that the timing is a bit different and John Career was ending. In the two thousands television have become prestigious again. It wasn't prestigious in nineteen eighty eight and I think if the timing of being different, he might well have gone into television because a lot of big directors have directed fall these new nusshous things on television. But in one thousand nine hundred and eighty eight, know he wasn't going to go back to they never talked about this, but this is my guess. He wasn't going to go back to making television and he'd made big feature films. I guess he was modest. But so how do his pride, and that's how I read it, him not making films after eighty eight s. He had his pride. That's fascinating to hear, Mary, and more so curious about how you mentioned earlier where John would take some directing roles just just for the job, and I want to find out how he came about to directing rapture. was that something that he active the sort out. How did he become involved in that picture? Well, okay, so I'm not quite sure. I don't I don't know if I know the story directly. But Christian ferry was darns annex right hand man in Europe and he was the need produce that on the longest day which, as you'll them, was a really big hit. And Darrell was wanted to make the film with Britricia Gozzi and he arranged for it to be recast in Brittany and not in England, where the novel was set. So that so he cast Patricia Gozzi who had never acted in English before. She didn't know any English other than her lines in the film, which makes her performance even more remarkable because there's so much feeling in her English. But she didn't know any English except for the script. I spectually picked up a bit while she was filming it. So my guess is that D all's interested in Patricia Gazze and Christian Farris close relationship with Darrel meant that probably Christian, and said John, will be a good director for this great that's my guess. I also have no idea could not speak English, which is, yeah, credible with her performance in this film is absolutely fantastic. So it's just as you did that all that phonetically. It's incredible and that, as opposed. Part of that is also just the way that John Thought her, because you can really feel in every single shut is in there's also this visual tension and this gorgeous black and white and you see you see her and clifftops, you see her in all of these gorgeous but slightly unsettling and skewered stots as well. It's just the way he captures her in their life and the way it captures her aversion two sounds, the way, you know, Heat Capture Society. I think that really makes the performance worth even better than would have otherwise. Yeah, and I mean she had just done the one film. So John would describe to me things like the scene where she's lying on the floor telling Dean stock well how she was seen, how she was seen as a bit crazy. She didn't really know what...

...to do with that same and it was John who said, well, why don't you just lie on the floor? And you remember the bit where we may not member it's just a little detail, but there's a bit where her hand is kind of trailing up the wall paper patterns she's talking and it was John that thought of that and showed her, you know, you could do something like this. So he did give her quite a lot of direction. And one of the things that we're going to put in the book, which will be interesting to rapture fans, is that I did have hundreds of photos of rapture and unfortunately I gathered all my most precious things up in a box when I had to evacuate from fire and I left them in a car outside the House I'm in now in rosary too, beach and the whole box was stolen and it was dumped on the beach and I won't go into the story, but I managed to get some of the contents back but most of the rapture photos were gone. However, do still have, I forget what they're called, their sheets that have small repeated photographs that are taken while of films been working on and I have some photographs of John Right up close with either dean stock will standing while they were running things through, or I think it's most of the standing, but right up close adjusting people's posture. He was very in there director. So I'm going to put some of those shots in to show how he worked, like really right among the actors. That you lost many of the photos, but I'm kind of curious to find out if you have momentum, who's chiln's work on other films? Who It's just specifically. There's premature which he treasured, yet now I do have one. There's not many physical artifacts. It was mostly posed that John had retained. But there was one thing he was very, very proud of, which was a little by plane carved and glued cars from scratching, glued out of some as. I don't know it's called bounce, some wood, but some kind of light wood, and James Mason made it for John during the film in a Bloom Matt and he always treasured that and I treasure of godless still by play. One thing I was really fast by when I saw thunderstorm as well, is that there are accusations to rapture, both in the way it's shot, which is not beautiful black and white with so much tension in every shot, but also this angle of this book, this magical angle that it's very clear to the audience that the magic is not real, but it's still there and still such an integral part of the films. In thunderstorm we have our lead who is sure that he's first, that's men are drawn to hers caused us, you know, definite the structure, everything goals and obviously in rapture. And yes, genderly believes, or at least in some way beliefs, or want of percentage, she believes that her scarecrow game to life. And I think in both of these films this magical element, of this idea, of this magical element, also place a really important Rawle in the film. It's just as set the same thing as you in terms of how we reacted to have me as a a spirical as all, because you really wondered, does she actually believe this? And even though seen, which is, as I always knew, a real like, I'm not even one hundred percent sure if I believe as the case. If that's no, but it's it's like also if she is of two minds. So many people who do see the world in the way she does can't believe several things at the same time. We can believe that. So it's just it's just really interesting how this both of these films, how this dual ism very have this magical layer that, at least to me, add sowhat additional tension films when you be interested to hear that this is part of real life and part of John's almost can contradictory character. He have been brought up a Catholic and he really often said, you know, I am sixteen nice throw the catechism in the waste Bous God, and he was very considered himself not a believer in God, but I would say he was believer in magic. And what I mean by that is I'm someone who experiences in a very real way, and this is dramatized in my one woman show, that I have different ages inside me and I'm very in touch with my child Sol and to the stories about John Seeing that was he would look at me every now and again and he'd say I can see that naughty schoolgirl because I have a fifteen year old kind of personality. And you know, I've I've found this a lot working with other people as a psychotherapist, that there are times of like trauma in your life and it's like a...

...part of you get stuck in kind of frozen in that age, and part of the healing work is like releasing the personality into healthy aspect at that age. So like I have really healthy seven year old inside me who's nothing like the shy little, her little creature I was at seven. And I have healthy fifteen year old inside me who's not a person that went all the difficult things I went through at fifteen. And he would see her when he meant naughty, not really naughty, just like lively, if you like. And then one day when we first got a dog, I, you know, very I very much believe in God, who's, for me, is a feminine God, and I talk about the faires who are like servants to the angels. That's how I that's what I mean when I say faire is. I do believe in nature, Spirit fairies, but when I say the fair is, it's got a capital there. So here's this vow days is who talks about God with Great Division Derision. I mean I come home from my training as psychotherapist one day and he and our our new dog that I still have, sangnness, called Pixie, out on a piece of our grounds and he's putting stones down on the ground and I said, John, what are you doing? And he said, Pixie and I are making a path for the fairies and he was making a stone lined path across the ground and of course, the sudden sholded me when Jones, I understand how poort of this, this side of life is to me, and he included the dog in this endeavor he was doing, making a part for me in the fair is to go down. I mean, like he was, was magical and he didn't incorporate it into his way. He talked about his own world view, but he entered into my worldview and so it's very real. It's very real in the person that he had that magical view of life and was able to bring it to life in his films. And I'll tell you a story I didn't know I was going to tell actually, because it's quite fascinating. He would always say to me there's nothing after death and I say to him, well, you know, wait and see John, maybe he'll be surprised. And after his death I divided the house so that I could stay in the house by doing air be and be downstairs. And when I divided the house, of literally the day I put the wall up to divide the house, I got terrible pain in my legs, in the bottom half of my body. And it went on for over a year, and not as intense, but I had pain for over a year and so in December of the year he died. In September, I went to a family constellation. This is a interesting healing method where the person facilitating set up knows why you've come for help, but the people sitting around in a circle don't know anything about you. And you choose people to represent. You know your father or your mother or you an sisters, going back whatever. You choose someone to represent. They know nothing about you. They just see what they pick up. So I was directed to choose someone to represent myself and someone to represent male energy. So I chose some of the represent myself. Chose this man to represent John, and the man started hopping around in the open circle and he's jumping up and down and he's saying I'm a hot air balloon, I'M A hot air balloon. I'm not a hot air balloon pilot, I'M A hot air balloon and I'm so clear, and he spoke like dawn. And this was a mild man of person who did lots of meditation into it that morning. And then the facilitator of the consternation directed me to talk to John and the person rebs me and people were crying because of how much loved was coming out. And at the end he said to me, say to John, I am alive and I dance with death, and he got the John Person To say I am dead and I dance with life. And I went home and I was just laughing and laughing because nobody but John could have said and I'm so curious and I found I don't as much now it's five years, but I felt him. I felt this person who absolutely believe there's nothing after death. I felt him frequently and sometimes when I'm upset I can feel him coming me. So that's it's a good story about the kind of person. He wasn't really sure of what he saw thought and yet if something opened up for him he was gonna go with it because he loved life so much. He was so curious and some weeks after he died, when I was picking him...

...up, he would always say to me, if only I'd met you when I was fifty, you know, when he was full of life, ranks and sexual being, and when I met you most fifteen. I said, John, I was only twenty three. We wouldn't have last me three weeks, but a few weeks after his death, a few months, can't remember. I felt him, his energy change from the tired old man he was when he died. I felt him as this lion of a man at fifty years old. I was very special to feel him him change and kind of be with him as that fifty fifty year old that I never knew in real life except inside, if, of course, was describing about myself. That's a far more extensive answer. You for that, Mary, and I wanted to focus on a part of John's filmography that isn't necessarily so focus on the feminine, because I don't talk about how almost all of his or all of his favorite films by them have a focus on the feminine. But one of my favorite films by John is guns upotosity. Yeah, which maybe you could find something coming it, but you know it is almost anything. But you know, with the extremely strong central performance by Richard Addon Brough as well in this not the almost the presalification of the entire British military, to think that's just such incredible film and almost overlapping tying a little bit order rapture as well, this beautiful black and white cinema scope, you can feel the same kind of visual intensity, even though those films are so incredibly different. Yeah, do you have any thoughts about against, aboutosity at all? Yeah, I mean I think John was quite like that film and I love that film too. And he was, I think he was very mean, you'll say from his autobiographical essay. Between bullying school boys who didn't understand his French sensitivity and the prevalence of corporal punishment at that time, he was badly treated by the masculine and I think that's where his understanding of femininity came from, because he appreciated what men are like. He understood what men are like when they have power and guns. That, he would say going into the the war made a man of me. He had like this tension between the sensitive child stroke artist and the need to be a man of among men. And you know, he was a flight sergeant. He did have a crew under him, so he felt his ability to survive as an adult he owed a lot to his time in the Air Force in the company of men. So I think guns, that Potassi is like his way of like the psychological motive underneath. Maybe is his way of looking at the issue of masculinity and love, how he sees everyone's different points of view, like rich and Atam borough is a bit of a bully, but you can feel sympathy for his love of empire and the Queen, even though it's outdated and it's going to be overturned and and it's a particular historical moment that guns with Potassi captures. You don't hate Richard Attabor even for his bad treatment of the native soldier at the beginning. You know, his bullying treatment. You fill with him. I do anyway, film with him for the diminution of I mean I'm not not the saying how awful things about colonization were, but I think guns at Potassi is has this type, you know, has those kind of tensions and complexities of like just like all the complex issues of attachment in the empire and the new knife that ever com wanted for it sound. I think it's an amazing, amazing look at that time in history. Yeah, I think that's spot on, Mary, and I think I'm so glad you mentioned the complexity here as well. Fascinated about even ties in little bit of drupture that it almost plays out two realities at once. Here too, we're depending on which viewpoint you have. You can see the film in so many different ways and you can obviously see rich and upon brough as the absolute here or agree with everything he says him as well. They could fantastic qualification of British empire and just see him as this, you know, wonderful, fantastic strong character. But then at the same time you can have exact opposite. You almost seem as a little bit yo can I really like the wells how it played out and also the fact that he does all of these really heroic acts throughout the film and you see how it takes charge, you see you can stand why it makes a choice to dos and and obviously his commander commending for that as well. But...

...at the same time he could have done absolutely nothing if it have almost dentical outcome, not spoiling the film, but it's just so interesting that that's the way it was played out as well. Yeah, I was also going to say that it's all I've seen several of its other films as well, the way he humanizes the antagonist so much, because obviously, even though earl down as little at one of us is quite strict quite brutal in many ways. He gives so much of his his own large trip to it, you know, we can see and feel his motivations as well. So I think it is just do that. That's also something. You know, I saw at was his name again, bridges at Ramadam, where he has so many very likable people on the German side as well, which we finished to see swept up in it. Nor making really humane choices, which is really interesting. Yeah, that when he creates antagonist, is not necessarily making them to being bad people. He's all almost always tries to see their humanity. Yes, I think that's the many good thing in John's films, especially valuable to Americans right, you know, being able to appreciate the complexity of the human condition and the complexity in having apposing viewpoints the humanity of people who hold there's a passing view point. I'm marry, just a question. So I'm a big fan of a lot of John's films. I wasn't as big a fun of she know, despite it had amazing scenery, had very nice music. I didn't. I was just curious, based on what we've talked about in terms of femininity, I was curious about what you thought of the character of she know and how she was portrayed, because I felt she was portrayed as a strong woman bought at the same time the film she was quite sexualized in it. There was a couple of naked scenes. There's a lot of her writing on a zebra kind of not wearing, a lot of bobbing. So I was just curious about what your take was on the betrayal of she know, what you thought of that film. She'd like to film. Yeah, well, I like aspects of the film. John had a very difficult time with Daniel Robert, who was not clean and sober at the time and so she was very difficult to film with. So that kind of complicated things. I think I know that he liked the scene in the pool that for him it wasn't sexualized. For him it was acceptable. Well, was kind of innocent for him and sensual but not over sexualized. That's not say how the people might see it, but that's that was his intention, I'm pretty sure, because I don't think it would have liked still enjoyed that scene if he hadn't felt there was like something poetic about it. I think he definitely did in the way in the opening scenes, they know where the little girl changes into the strong young woman. He was showing that strong side of femininity. But when he would talk about film he would talk with bit of derision and for turn your Roberts because of what a hard time she gave him about the filming and I think she probably couldn't pull off the vision he had for that part. He taught with huge respect about the Shaman, who was a real princess and a little showman in that tribe, whatever the tribals. He just loved her and you can see in the film how she has such nobility and dignity and she's such a real person. So that's what came to mine when you asked me that that you know, I would say almost. I mean part from horror of getting a phone call and hearing of some being killed and you're the other side of the world. You know that happened might just over halfway through the film. ME, when he didn't like somebody or he felt somebody wasn't putting their heart into it, he had a lot of trouble with that and he had so much respect and reverend for people who really loved their work and this is a change of film. But when he talked about towering inferno, he was very dismissive, Paul Newman, because we just put the job for the money. It just go and set its okay, what do you want me to do? Was Interested in acting in that film and he just adored Steph McLean, who didn't fight. He's Stephen Clean. was supposed to play architect and he said I'm not playing the ship part, I want to be the fire chief. Rewrite the scripts and all be the fire chief and they had to cancel. And this Ernie bornines contract, who was both played the small part of the fire chief and they paid him something like two hundredzero dollars, not to be int Afrit further, because they broke his contract and they rewrote an eight page part into an eighty page part. And Steven McLean this. You know what, without that, what we're tring burner, be Steven Queen. That really did a great jobs. The far achieved in me, I actually agree with you about the naked sins and Sina. I do think they weren't sexualized. For me, the sexualize part was she know,...

...writing the Zebra and kind of up and down. Well, I think that they say something about the difference being men and women, because I never thought that. Sorry that I also I also did like the part that you mentioned where it's we see her change girl to a woman. I thought that part was really good as well. But Yeah, sorry. So such a part must be must when I watch the film s. So you mentioned to Tom that there were a couple of stories that didn't make it into the book. Would you be to tell us about them? Well, the one that comes to mind when you ask me is during the film filming of that dreadful film L Condall, Jim Brown, who is a retired football player, was really, really heavy and he couldn't get on his horse. He had to be held up onto his horse every time there was a scene where he was on his horse. That's one little tiplet the other story is that there's a big scene with native Americans and they're two hundred horses lined up and that the head of the two hundred horses was that actor chief iron sign, who was quite old by then, and he's sitting at the head of the Indian Army on horse back and took a long time setting up the shock because there was so many horses and at last they're ready and John, or whoever does it, dropped a white handkerchief to show that the child should begin, and a hundred ninety nine horses charged forward and chief I had sided form asleep and so it and the sunshine and he didn't move. They had to let it all up again. But John, John didn't John Really like she find side. So the way he told that story was appreciating the humor of it. He wasn't annoyed about it. Some stories he'd tell me and he's still be annoyed, you know, forty years later or whatever it was. I think one or two of the other stories. I can tell you this other story, but I did end up putting it in the book. So is I can't remember where I put it in the book, but anyway, did John had a John hit a two year patch without this is real life has but without any work between which film was at whatever you did in one thousand nine hundred and seventy, and house of cards or something, and Sky Jack. And he had a poish of for buying large houses that his wife advised him again, but he kept doing it. So he bought this large house in Brentwood for the then huge sum of three hundred thousand dollars and he didn't get any work. When he got really, really desperate, it was a bank lowe needed all this repayment and then Chart Charlton Heston came to him. Not Sure I did if he'd actually work with him, but anyway it came to him and he said I'm interested in new directing skyjacked. So John described, you know, he had heard all this money and a two year hiatus in a film director's career can be in the end of their career. So he went to the interview in the Polo Bart Beverly Hills Hotel like full of trepidation about whether he was going to get this job and he did get the job. So now they're filming skyjacked and Chuck has the notice that every day at five o'clock John's assistant brought him a brown paper bag and he said John, you's from that Brown paper bag and John said it's my scotch, because apparently filming in the Maratha is very, very different in England, where people are more open about alcohol. He didn't drink during the day when he was filming, but it was still like bit frowned on in America. So Chuck said, I'll have one of those, and so every Fuckok, the assistant brought to Brown paper pack except the gloss of sculpture for the rest of the filming. There's a good story my Mary. So they bought their podcast, but I was also you feel down for a couple of quick questions from the forum as well? Shall perfect take the way so all you can ask the best question. Our first question comes from one of our users, cord block, is done some podcasting last before. It's about death on the NAR which I think I've said before, is my favorite film from John. It's got a really great near road, a music score, it's got an excellent mystery story in there and what blocker wrote is he's truest. To what extent John was conscious of the previous pro movie, It on the Iron Express from sitting limit, and how did it or did it not influence his work on death on the Nile? And Block is really and he's especially interested in whether he worked with Peter Houston of on his performance of Proo. Right. So the first PA is...

I don't think John paid not according to anything he ever told me. He didn't pay attention to earlier versions I mean other people's films are making. I didn't think. I think he did pay attention to the earlier version of King Kong because he needed to make it really different, but that's the only thing I remember hearing about where he paid attention to anything else outside him. He had to quite a close relationship with Peter Houston off. I don't remember if it was outside of this film, but I think it was, and because a lot of these actors did live in the area of Los Angeles that John Lived in, so he socialized with them around his full table and things. But he did tell me that they work together on how to portray prow to take advantage of Peter Houston off character and how to be different from other portrayals of for it, and I know some people like about portrayal more than many others. You know, thanks me. It's a very interesting response because obviously all but feeling and peter used to love have given a very different performances. I personally both found them both effective in different ways. I guess we can go down next question now. Who? Maybe? We have a question from Angel Glass and he's asking John Shot several war films. Who was there any particular reason for this. Now. I imagine we have kind of touched on this briefly earlier on, but if you'd like to elaborate on it, that would be great. Yeah, I don't know if I know anything about that. I mean, obviously there's the thing he said himself that he took the jobs he was offered. I don't think he turned anything down that I know of. I mean I know he didn't want to make King Conger, for example. He really tried to talk do now out of making in comment and failed. So he got the job even though he knew it wasn't going to work, wasn't going to be a second blockbuster. Remind me of the beginning of the question because I've diverted myself onto can cost this. What was the question again? No problem, Mary, it's a war films, war films. Yeah, you did definitely have an interest in war films because he loved the longest day and he wanted to make last days at Berlin, which I think was made some years back by somebody else. He really, really wanted to make that film and Darles and it was going to make the film last days of Belin with John and then Darlas an. It got some kind of dementia and couldn't keep his job anymore and rich and Salac took over and he refused to make it, which was like broken part. He's still talking about if, whoever many years later, it would but he didn't tell me why. I don't know why he was interested in more films, but he was. He really liked making Blue Max and he really liked making and guns at Patagia. I mean he just I think. I think he liked the complexity of the human condition and that looking at war was one way to show that complexity. That would be my guess. Knowing Him. I don't think it was about glorifying violence or anything. He wasn't interested in violence per say to sound like it a great point, Mary, because if you soon see the complexity in the characters with the war films, they're always brilliant to watch. So yeah, I think and it was. Got a question for you know. Okay, so in some obvious from the forum wants to ask theisodes rupture, what films was John was proud of? I think he m the other I didn't tell you this the first time around, but he would always say two things when he looked at his film. He'd say, don't remember a single shot and not bad. So he was seeing his films from fifty, forty, thirty years earlier with a pretty fresh eye and and I believe him he didn't remember the shots, because I was frustrated he wouldn't tell me more about what it was like to be a director and I'm not sure he'd even seen them after they were made. But, Gosh, I must be getting tired. I've forgotten the first question. What was favorite? So I think he well, you know, we watched death on the Nile more than once, so I think it's safe to say that he was proud of that one. And he was very proud of the fact that he and his son were able to roam around in the car that temple and they got permission to go on the Pyramids and go up, go up the pillars and drop that stone down, like things that he knew. Would talk about how you can't step on those things now in modern filmmaking. Wouldn't be allowed to do what he was allowed to do and he was very happy that he'd pulled that off with the Egyptian government and had that freedom, all those wonderful shots on these ancient artifacts. So I know death. I know he enjoyed death on the Nile. I think he thought like he'd got those what he was aiming for with...

...his war films. I think particularly guns at Potassi, but also the Blue Max. I think is quite proud of those. I think he was quite pleased when he saw his very first film, torment, which, if you haven't seen it, is really worse looking at. A lot of his films are available for rent now and Amazon in the US. I don't know about in the UK. Torment is one you can see and it's interesting to see his style present in his very first film. But I wouldn't certains one of his favorites. But I think he was thought it was an adequate attend he was pretty nobody's mentioned the crowded day. who were are you like the crowded day? The crowded day is one of those s compendium films that's about five shop girls to day in the nighte of five shop girls and it's a really good little film and that's Great Fun to watch. Those are the ones that come to mind. I might think something later that. There's the ones I think he liked. First, I think he liked town on trial and he was proud of town on trial. Did Full John Mills what Guy Jective for John. John Mill's career was on the downward slope and he did a bit for Britain and unusual portrayal and please character with a bit more toughness, like a little Americanized, not completely, and that turned John Sir John Mill's career around. Certainly proud of that aspect and I think he liked that. That film too. Thanks a lot. That was really interesting. I also I also really liked turn and trail. I think it's okay. So soul is going to ask another question from the forum, shall so? Roger, who's one of our Irish members of the forum, as asked if you've got a particular favorite of John's films, outside of Rapture, of course, and why? Well, I might answer differently on another day, but the one that comes to mind today is the crowded day. It's partly because of the story in that that's darker than the rest, story of the shop girl who becomes pregnant and is chase, I would be rapist, and I think it's might be because it gives you see, when you read my essay on John's attitude to femininity. It gives me an insight into John. But I always was fond, always am fond, of s compendium films. So I would say, outside of rapture, that and death. And then I have and my two favorite films, and death on the Knocke, because it's like so white sweeping and so sumptuous and the costumes are so gorgeous and and I love, I gus the Christian mysteries anyway. So really enjoyed death on the nil as well. Maybe I watched it just last week for the first time and it was an excellent found not knowing what was going to come next and how I was going to puns and really have me on the edging my seat throughout, because so got a another question here from one of the form uses, old Ale one, who really likes the tars and film, todden's greatest adventure, and they're cure what John's experience was in working on a franchise film. Although it may have been different time, tars and was made from the teams of the franchise film today and they're wondering what kind of compromises John had to make to keep the film within the spirit of the character because it's a much tougher and more serious tars than usual and they're wondering if John got any flat for that or if there were other elements of the production that might being harder because of the specific pool. Yeah, that's unfortunately, that's not the sort of thing that he talked to me about. I think that you're you know, I think it was a bit different. It's because French franchise is a little bit different from the emphasis now on sequels. So I think John Felt, as far as I know, he was able to make the tiles and film he wanted to make, and the same with tars and goes to India. I think he was quite proud of the fact that Tarzan's greatest adventure is, you know, there's like a critics consensus that read at least, that that the best stars and film. But the sort of thing he talked about was about little stories that happened when he was filming. He didn't really talk about the Nitty Gritty of getting production deals or how much freedom he had had, only to comment how much freedom he had in rapture. So he would, you know, he'd tell me about his relationship with Sean Connery and how he said to Sean if you if you want to make it big in acting, you've got a tone down your Scottish accent, Sean, and things like that, you know. And Sean didn't like coming on set and hanging around. So they had disagreement that he could go fishing in the river and John would blow a horn or not John, that someone would blow a horn and when Sean had that Hornie had to come and if he came quickly then it was...

...a cake. Could go on fishing. But all the time they fell in the crew fell in the river and some of them had a nasty bug from the thing. I mean, he was interested in the people. So he didn't tell me really about the film that I wanted to know about. He'd tell me all these little stories, like I just told you, these little stories. It just as fascinated there. So it's great to hear the kipping them. I don't know if it's kipping num or sipping them. But on Rond the forum he wanted to ask so he he's particularly mentioning the Blue Max which he's a big fan of. But you know, I think it can be a general question. Why do you think a lot of John's films are so under rifted or not so well known. And how to answer that? Oh well, I suppose I have got a bit of before that shared by the people that wrote the book. I think, because his later films were better known, perhaps because of coming after America and because he got a kind of reputation that he could do different genres and that he he was pretty good at bringing films in on time and on budget. He was a great organizer. So I think, you know, he will be unfairly be called in certain places a journeyman director because he could turn his hand to different things and he could do so somehow the beauty and artistic vision of his work and the fact that it was that way around right started out in Britain and went to America. And Americans they're going out, to put this factfully, but maybe don't appreciate as much as British people. There's kind of suttle, you know, the subtle. Mean British black and white films of that period are quite different from American book films the period. So you know, the I'm not sure the American sensibility necessarily appreciated what John was capable of and didn't know and still don't know for the great work he did in Britain. So I think that's the you know, that, combined with the way he undermined his know he did wouldn't compromise. That's one thing Christen berries it to be. Wouldn't compromise, he wouldn't negotiate respectfully. He just got inflamed with when men had power over him, which goes back to the corporal punishment trauma, in my opinion. So he didn't handle things tactfully and well and he wasn't his own best friend. So between his capability in many genres and dependability and between his own easily inflamed personality, I think he was lucky to make as many films as he did because there's no question it was very difficult person for people with power to work with. That I think it's amazing how he managed to make so many films and I really hope this book is a step in rewriting his reputation. Can See absolutely deserves to be recognized as one of the great directors. I think, not just as his wife, but just he was a real artist and there was a loss that those factors combined for him not to have the freedom to carry on in what he created in rapture. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. I know I've become a big fan of John's films over the past few weeks and I know that all of us on here of what's quite a lot of his films now and we're trying to spread the word on the forum. We're trying to get as many people as possible to watch more, because there's a lot of very great films. I hope the book another podcasts will help bring more attention to some of his earlier films aren't so well on one. Oh, and this reminder that John Gilliman, the man the mid the movies, is available for purchase on Amazon. Thank you for listening and join us again soon. You have been listening to talking images, official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (65)