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Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 32 · 1 year ago

Is Netflix Destroying Cinema?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You have heard the warnings. You have seen the tears. You have felt the terror. A spectre is haunting the halls of cinema, and its name is not Covid-19 but Netflix.

In this episode, we will discuss just how damaging Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, Mubi and all other streaming services are, and try to get to the bottom of the existential threat they pose. 

Can anything good come from them at all? Listen in, and find out. 

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone, I'm Chris, and in today's topic we will discussing our public enemy number one, the sturge of Cinephilia, Netflix, Oh and streaming services anywhere people, and I'm sure there are dozens, if not more, are concerned. Is Netflix turning people away from cinemath, that is to say cinemas, the actual physical cinema buildings, and, if so, is that bad, especially in a pandemic? Oh and our there productions generally does bad, poor quality, shallow and just lowering the quality of the medium in general. Is it, for instance, a waste for the larger names that working on them to actually do that work? Is the products Netix are creating destroying our souls? It is the shift in the paradigm where cinemas are becoming abandon the favor of streaming destroying our souls? With me today to answer all of these hard hitting, existential questions. I'm at too absolutely wonderful cohosts, mature and salt. So let's just start with an easy, or perhaps even accusatory question. Do you now, or have you ever had, a Netflix subscription? Hey, who one. No, I have have been a member of the COMMUNIPAP. Wait, no, that wasn't the question. As it's I just have a net six accounts and I've had one basically since they arrived in France. All right, so from Australia I do a Netflix account, but I don't actually give them my credit hunt thousand everything just by Netflix Voutchas oh, because sometimes I'll go for like months on end and there won't be anything interesting on Netflix. I. Sometimes I'll let my cat expire or whatever because it goes for a few weeks without them to renew it. And sometimes I just won't watch Netflix for a few weeks until someone there's something else on what I want to see, and then I'll put the I gift card back in and reactivate the account. So I've got an account there, but I don't use it all the time throughout the year. All right, I never actually heard of these vultures, so we let's. Let's get into that a little bit later. But I guess I can also reveal that I do indeed also have a netflix account and have had one arm and off for well over a decade. I mean I had wondering my university days and I had one mouth since the pandemic, but there was like a decade long gap in the in between there as well where I didn't feel like I needed it. But let's get into the not necessarily the meat of it, but just the more simpler question here. To do enjoy Netflix? You enjoyed the service they provide? I mean definitely. It's not just about the films. Of course I find that the TV shows on Netflix are genuinely what's more attractive about it. But they haven't been getting better, I think, with their offer in terms of cinema, and I mean it's just to me service that's walks with you. Well, it's. It's it's nice to be able to watch things legally that on the Internet's one of them made a Peuce of netflix etter was in ployment and others. I mean, yeah, definitely I enjoy to be honest, who doesn't be a question? Yeah, I guess I do. Journal with enjoying Netflix. I was very skeptical about it. When Chris said a decade, I'm like, well, I don't don't know it even existed in Australia for that long when I joined up. I joined up beginning of two thousand and nineteen. The only reason why I joined as I was giving one of those vouchers, giving a Netflix gift card of my birthday, and I'm like, okay. Well, reluctantly I thought, look, how we'll look out one APP or whatever. You'll give me a chance to see that Sun Dance Film Festival winner that hasn't been released outside of Netflix. It gave me a chance to see annihilation and some other Netflix originals. I thought real Gondius, do it for a few months and see how it goes, but there was actually enough interesting out there. I guess I kept buying gift cards and renewing it every so often. The arrange they isn't that good, so I don't enjoy it as much as of the streaming services or films that they have, their films that I already own on DVD or lyrics. Have Got Tenzero films my collection. I do enjoy it for some of the more Oscar buzz I netflix films, and I think we'll be getting to that later on the podcast. It's actually that the talk about how we didn't know they were around the decade ago, because Netflix, that's technically I'm that just technically been around for twenty four years now. That is actually open up their business in one thousand nine...

...hundred and ninety seven. Not just to be clear, this is not something I had in the back of my head. They had to Google it. But I did know that there are essentially a competitor of blockbuster. At first, literally does sending the films and series in the mail before they realize they could do three being in two thousand and seven. But quite the evolution. Okay, I was aware of Netflix as sending DVD's in the mail because back on the Classic Film Board, or I'm DB, before that exploded, people would talk about Netflix all the time, you know, running things from Netflix sce and their Netflix Q. and yeah, I don't know when the streaming things started, but I guess only became really aware of it maybe five or six years ago, so maybe that's when it jumped to Australia. But yeah, I was aware of Netflix as a company. It was just something that was never able access because Netflix as sending DVD's in the mail was never something in Australia. That never existed. Yeah, and it seems a bit they can overkill two because of me. Ever, at least everywhere in Norway there were, you know, the VHS and DV DVD rentals stores. If anything, in fact, my father used to used all the VHS rental store back in the nine S, so it wasn't really it was quite easy to get access just through that. So I guess Netflix maybe feel something else in in the US and they, as I gets again, Shim into yeah, I do actually enjoy Netflix, though, like my tool set quite a bit for a TV I mean it's created as use it as a replacement for regular TV and watch the shows, because they do have a lot of pretty solid shows, and I think I use it far more to actually watch TV shows with my wife then watch movies. So I do. I do both. But just stepping away from our general enjoyment of Netflix just on their own and going towards the topic at hander, let's just do a quick Straw pole to give our listeners a sense of where we're coming from in terms of just how Netflix is affecting the industry and the world. So is Netflix good or bad? And just give me a one word answer please. That's really one would ampsychosoka. I fine, I'm two words of okay, let's go. I was gonna say it's necessary evil with the best way putting it. will go into that soon. But yeah, I think like any technological change, it's neither good no bad. It just happening and the consequences both good in bad. I know it's like is electricity good or bad? In most is good. I mean what it has consequences. It's not like it's going to streaming services in general. It's huge change. It's not that we can stop its right. So I guess that question is it's relevance, whether it's good on better. Who are moral relative it? It's all the same way that Chris said of our currently. So I want or two words, so I try I just say both of you. I'll seep to the mouthings. It's more routely do that. The access it is great and I think that they are making it much when essentially a replacement for TV. I don't think that replacement for TV is at all bad. I don't think they're always TV movies. They were always TV shows that were showing only on the small screen. So I really don't think it has much of a negative impact, though, like I can see some. So my next week question, because we do want to not just talk about Netflix. The streaming in general as well. So stepping away from Netflix is which we may like because of the amazing products, so which, whatever we think, streaming in itself, is that good or bad? That that again is for the industry. For us, for seeing films in cinema, anything is dreaming, good or bad, and yet you're allowed to seet again, I guess. Having for the from the consumer perspective it's definitely good. It's because, as you mentioned, access is an important thing, especially if you're living in a small town just not going to have access to a cinema that programs at house films, for in films, or, in the case of friends and many, many good countries or the world, you also might get films dubbed instead of Subda, which Netflix helps with that. So from the consumer perspective it's definitely a positive. From an industry perspective, it's certainly a change, a huge change of evolution and, as with the things you know, it's destroying as much as it's creating. So it's understandable that we have a lot of resistance to it. It's certainly the cinema experience seems to be under threat, especially these days with Covid, but again, from a consumer perspective, it has to be mostly seen as positive. Yeah, I would say that streaming services are good. I was definitely very...

...skeptical about it. Like I said, you know, was until the beginning of two thousand and nineteen that I even had a netflix account, and I know I'll, you know, find up streaming service accounts. I mean there were things that I would stream for our free on likes of the services that are available, but not anything that I was too big one. I was really proud of my dvd collection. I guess I still am, even it's mostly collecting dust. Yeah, so streaming services I was never that big into and I was always very skeptical of because I thought, you know what, depends only endedict Internet connection. I will home as if the Internet goes down and then suddenly can't do it, and all these advantages the DVD seem to have. But I guess just these days I would much rather stream than by the DVD. That's it's super cheap, because there's just a big storage thing with DVD's and Bluray so take up a lot of space and if it's something which I know that I'm probably only going to want to ever see the one time. It's much easier for me if I can just stream it, even if I'm streaming it as a rental. And Yeah, these days I would say that I'm streaming about ninety percent of the stuff that I watch, whereas if I went back around four or five years ago, probably ten percent of watch I was watching would be when I was watching online. So things are really changed for me and yeah, I was very skeptical of it, but I think it is a change for the better. I think it's a better way of consuming films and yeah, it's just it's also extremely convenient, also, especially for rare and harder to find films. You have to find that DVD on the shelf. You don't have to go to that art house cinema that's forty five minutes away. You can actually just get it in your home. So Yeah, look, I'd say it's good. I know it's not great that it's impacting on cinemas as a whole, but then you know, I don't know, maybe this is just the way that the film industry is meant to evolve. I mean film has been changing it since the beginning. It was in the first few years of having feature film suddenly Somem was introduced after sound, less than ten years later when color introduced, and just all these things have changed in s you get home video and you can actually own films of your own. So yeah, I think it's as part of the that short evolution. I think it's interesting that you bring up vids because to me Netflix is not in competition with you. That's not how any seats because give these are Luis out about owning the thing, which I've you seen. That fix doesn't met you. I really see it more being in competition, like I said, with both TV and and cinemas. I think with TV, yeah, there is a bit of competition there because it's just like Channel Surfing. You get pretty much whatever you want. I think it gives tv a run for its money, which I don't think as a bad thing, because I don't like all these broadcast deals that different stations make or whatever, and you can't watch the Golden Globes in Australia and lets you have this some one particular service. So I don't mind that it's affecting our TV. It's not actually affecting cinema over here, but we might get that later on. But yeah, it seems like a lot of countries those are being released on streaming services and cinemas at the same time. And Australia nobody has ever been willing to tight back gamp. But before inten this one, to say that don't don't say anything too bad about to strip and hand painted color film, because obviously they did have to strip in the s and it even bactamilated did hand color them. So people had seen colors. I just even though they weren't necessarily as realistic as when they got into a three strip and later, but just as some what two guys were saying. I think it's an interesting contrast there, because how Netflix started out when I first got the subscription back in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, I think that like they didn't create anything themselves. That came a lot later. They were really just doing exactly the same thing they did with DVD's online. So at that point it really was a competitive for DVD's, only like they didn't have their own TV shows. They maybe like they would get some older TV shows would show them, but they wouldn't even necessarily get the best deals for the new TV shows coming now, like they would get that a year or two years later. So they weren't in competition with anyone except DVD's, which is interesting, and now obviously that has switched and I think rush and why a lot of people are worrying about Netflix, it's not really that they're taking over the old home market, but that they are competing with the cinema market in that they are releasing more and more big films themselves and that for a certain Barre of of time, these larger and larger films are not getting a cinema release at all, or this very limited in the releases of those people like they quit and Tantine, though, who was so mad about this, with these...

...people who just love seeing things projected on the screen, are just really upset that big films are not being protected on the screen. And to an extent I guess I'm sympathetic, but I don't think it's as big an issue as a lot of people are making it out to be. Well, I don't know if I agree with you, Chrise. I do think it's a big thing. Without that it's an issue, is something else, but you know, so brought up to transition from sounds to silence. But I think the obvious comparison here is the arrival of TV, and when TV arrived in the S and S S, obviously the cinema industry was really worried that TV would kill them. It didn't, but, as you mentioned that TV was not able to produce films in the same way that studios were, and so I do think there's something of a it's an existential change. I do think the should the rise of streaming services and I think the fear is that cinema becomes like theater, right, that it's a small thing that some people do in big cities and but that it's not mainstream art form that people get to enjoy everywhere. Right. And it's something that's already been happening. I mean, you look at cinema in the s. It was massively popular and very cheap, and with tickets prices rising, you have this happening. I mean as I do, it is a huge change and I do understand why that traditional actors in the industry feel very threatened by extreaming services. I don't think it's it's a saturated well, I think you bring up a relatively good point. I think it's also interesting to loose look at the technical changes to because the whole like cinema, fundamentally changed when TV was created, because before TV they would be creating a lot of these fairly ginary content. I mean that at some point they were popping out like hundred plus Westerns a year. But, like we talked about in the Western episode, once TV came in and all of these western shows came in, suddenly the Western movie started the pleating and a lot of these films that were not necessarily that visually impressive were disappearing and cinema started investing a lot more in color because, obvious at first Qulor TV's didn't exist, and this started investing in cinema scope and they started investing in the large, action packed benches, actually anything that couldn't be shown properly on TV or like the experiences that wouldn't be the same on TV, and that think that that's still happening today too with like bigger and bigger spectacles in cinemas do with all of the massive superhior blockbusters, etc. Yeah, I think the TV can hurse and that matthew brings up is a great points, and also the one which I mentioned earlier about the advance of home video or these things were seen as threats to the film industry. But I guess cinemas did keep on going. It led to the advent of cinema scope and different widescreen presentations and I'm Fif S. I guess those also first influx of d and s have got that second influx of D. I guess when like the HS and by the Max whatever came out. I guess recently we've also had a whole big influx of d movies. Not so much the last couple of years, but definitely during the past decade have been lots and lots of d movies which I guess might be trying to replicate something at streaming surfaces can't readily offer, unless you out that, you know, d connected TV and everything. Yeah, I do think tweet is very good than to this comparison with the TV, ever, because that's when three d first happened, right that they already did that in this in fifty eight s. But it seems to me that we D is kind of dying out. I mean it's hard to say now because it's been a year. It's Cood it, but even before I think we had it a fewer movies with reds feels like. I mean, I guess the other time movies May, I would a sequence if they ever happened, might be something that we dauncewers that, but it feels like it's using seem unlike, as you mentioned, Chris Semoscope, which was this big thing which definitely took over the industry when TV happen. Yeah, I think three D is a little bit like like augmented reality and virtual reality in seater, in that everybody all always thinks it's going to be this massive thing. Whenever someone does something with it, people just aren't as interested as they originally taught. And then it's done a little while and it stays in the sidelines, but any kind of disappears and, like you said, like you had a massive influx of three films the s and again in the s and no really talks about them anymore. And even even though the technology it's that started coming back with Abatar look better about of us. The only one was done properly, like for a while after that to you, like they would only converting films were shot regularly into tread and like they didn't look particularly well, didn't feel particularly well. So I think just one of those things, as...

...do to fail and doesn't never really adds that much more, not to mention that people with glasses, people with eye problems can't even see them properly, and lots of people were complaining about headaches. So it's giving very little or a lot of extra complications. I don't know that I agree that I was the only one. I think you had. Yes, it was a whole lot of conversions that were bad, but you know, you had films that car line, which used them fall the things, I mean even good out the videos him. I think it was genuinely big thing, like genuinely something that stuck. More it was massive. Yeah, in fact, I remember in Norway there was even a big outcry from the critic community because they were hurting to the they were reworking how cinema projections worked and the because of that non treaty production is, were coming out darker and slightly lower quality than before. So, put it literally, read it, all of the cinemas and all slow. I think back in two thousand and ten or eleven and we just had this enormous, enormous impact on everything. Even though it's now this kind of disappearing a little bit. But enough about enough about red because you are talking Netflix, and I think Netflix also and poses a bigger threat than before, because with vhs and even with TVD, the quality just wouldn't compare. Like TV's didn't have the quality strength they have today. VHS Is were incapable of handling in it, handling it like often, like up until like the last decade or two, films were cropped like today, that's not an issue. Like we get crisp quality. TVs are becoming bigger and bigger and bigger, home projection is becoming easier and easier and easier to do. So I think that cinemas are in trouble and I know that one of the main things that the critics of Netflix and the critics of these streaming platforms that are creating their own films and not showing them in cinemas, what they are saying is that you are actually removing cinema from the Social Square. So essentially we go from having people sitting in a room with other people, reacting to their reactions and feeling that atmosphere and no going out, I'm talking about it afterwards, into people sitting in their isolated rooms consuming it alone. And it's not just the visual experience, is the collective experience and and everything you get from that that's disappearing. And I think it's especially people who are slightly older who grew up with that experience, the probably have a felt a lot of all through that, that are the crying it. And it might be something that, with the increase of TV and with people doing less than as the cinema, slightly younger generations like us might not even have the exact same connection with, because obviously when we grew up, TV exist, that Sata wouldn't have to go to the cinema to get that kick. So it was already declining a little bit when we came on the scene. But yeah, do you think that that collective experience, that whole thing, disappearing is a negative? Well, I mean if it if it disappears. Yes, I don't think it would disappear. The question is, with its just be much less available, and I do think that's real risk. And I mean shooting services are literally redefining what we call cinema, because that this in France. We always define cinema as being projected to an audience. In fact, because that I was us to say that we invented it because as yeah, you know that that I I was as to say that the first film is French. Were as if you take another definition, which would be perhaps more in line with what's happening now, you would say that Edison invented it or something like that. So I mean it says for me something I value personally, either the social experience, but I feel like not so many people do anymore. I hear people complaining all the time that's going through the cinemas is a terrible experience that people are talking e's atter. I don't know. I don't personally encounter it that much, maybe because I try to avoid the big showings at an NPM or whatever, but it feels that people are not as that attached, aside from a small group. Again, the theater comparison comes to mind. It seems that people are not that attached with to the cinema experience anymore. That's actually true. And then I think for a lot of people going to pack screenings is a big negative, like I say, because there's more likely for people getting phone calls, there's more likelihood of you know, people that's randomly schetting or talking coming in and out, like when you go to the big screenings. They can be so many bad distractions that could hurt cinema screening, which we say. I guess when you hear people like this Scor Safety, for instance, be a little bit of said about this. Or or other people who grew up in the before cell phones existed. I guess they might have a slightly different, different perspective, slightly different views on how this...

...in the experiences even meant to be. And that's not even accounting for COVID. I mean, I know covid is not going to be there forever and I know soul is living in this utopia over there in Australia, but it's seemed changes the way we perceive big crowds, I think in follow the long term. Yeah, I was just going to say that. I know that with the older generation of people out there, going to the cinema something they're grown up with, something they've treasure I enjoy going to the cinema myself. It's something really nice sitting there in front of a big screen. But I guess if it's slowly dies out, I don't know how much of a bad thing it is because I think the increased availability that we get through streaming is a positive thing. I mean the whole mean it's got a bit better, but the whole idea of films being released to cinemas doesn't quite work as well as you'd think because there's a lot of Australian distributors who, like we are not going to release it here unless there's enough positive things coming from overseas. There's a lot of films that we don't get here until like six months later. It's not as bad as it used to be, but we still don't get films released at the same time Australia as we do in America. Sometimes other parts of the world are the streaming service has curved a little bit. Once it's available stream on Netflix, was available in prime or it's available and whatever service at the same time, so everyone around the world can watch at the same time. And if you're looking at from a philosophical point of view, in terms of Pius, it's probably the best thing possible. Reason why piracy exists so badly is because he's got these distributors. We've got their head up their ass going we're not going to release this the same time as everwhere else in the world. So anywhere you can watch, I'll film is by doing it illegally. So so I think streaming does hurt that quite well. Yeah, well, I think that dreaming and availability and excessibility, because the services are that expensive, makes it so much easier and, like you also mentioned, these streaming services are killing TV and know that less and less younger people, people under forty people, especially people on the Turkey don't even pay for table anymore because they have a set amount of streaming services. It's easier they can. You can see anything you want whenever you want. And obviously there's a collective experience in TV as well, which all of us grew up with, where, you know, everybody sees one episode of a show and then we wait for next week and everybody talks about it afterwards. So there's always something being lost with innovations like this, but the East neccessibility and the ability to watch anything you want the way you want it really is a massive step up and it's making people choose it, so to this goes. You've been talking about dreaming in general a little bit now, not just Netflix. So on that note, are you a member of any other dreaming services. Just just before I saw that question. To get back to something you said, Joan said about the corrected experience we get with TV. You seem to get that to a certain extents, right you, because you have those big phenomenons right with when stranger things was really so recently the Queen's Gambits. I didn't watch it, but it seemed like everyone around me was talking about it. So you see, you do get that. Get that's just a bit differently and I agree that it's more kind of exploded, especially because, as you've mentioned, to get back to a question, letfix is not the only streaming service around, far from it. So trendser I. I'm not subscribed to anything else, but I am subscribe to something called Modotorf, which is a French thing on me, which is just it's not really a streaming service, is just a way to access everything that hals on French TV easily and to record. It's kind of I guess it's like you record as you did before, but it's very convenient and it's actually pretty good for cinema, because there are a lot of things that I want French and I was to have access to Amazon primes to someone I know who has a subscription, but I'm not subscribed to myself. Okay, so the question when Chris originally put it out was how many services subscribed to now versus pretty pandemic and I guess before covid hit the only streaming service I was using was Netflix. Are the only paid when I was using was Netflix. In Australia we've also got a service called SPS on demand. It's got some ads in there, so it's not an ad free service but it works around on a broad back connection doesn't work for a well, ideas. I was using that, but you're anyone else paying forwards? Netflix pretty pandemic since the pandemics hit. I have joined three more streaming services, but not so much because of covid nineteen, just because some of the films that I want to see were available on them. I was looking at the rest of the range and look pretty good and they I seemed to right also. So since generally last year, I've also joined a movie which has got an excellent selection of foreign and art house films. It...

...was originally on a thirty day cycle, so at thirty days in which to watch a film, which wasn't great because I'm sometimes we're trying to cram in these movie films before they expired. They've changed the format since then and I've got a whole library of things which are constantly available to be able to watch and other things to expire, but it's not as closed as it used to be. So I really like movie I'm also subscribed to Amazon prime only since December last year, but I really enjoyed Amazon prime and as a much better range than Netflix released in terms of cinema. Don't know about in terms of TV, but in terms of film and stuff from around the world, there's always a lot more things available streaming on prime and a streaming on Netflix. Even I don't really want to give Amazon, you know, a big boose, because every really did to IMDB and getting everything shut down there. You know, their streaming service does seem to be the best one around, and the other streaming service that I'm also paying for, an hour's shut up, jutter, is just for horror, thriller and Genre Films, but they've gone an excellent range. I think I read juststered sometime last year, because I should not. I think it was because of the movie host as I'm really into these grain recording type films like the unfriended series, and host does that with a Zum conference and looking at some of the other things also and shut and there a whole lot of films are on the they shoot zombies Canada. I've never been able to find otherwise. And Yeah, just keep finding great things. And then it's been really good for the monthly challenge because I've got a great selection of different off on English language or films from around the world. So I saw some really good Belgian and Dutch films and shuttle arts last month. So he shut is really good, although it doesn't work in my TV afterward watch through the EYEP had. Actually the same thing goes for movie, but yeah, Amazon prime. I can watch on my computer or and kicked the TV, or I can watch on the IPAD. And goes for Netflix, but I would give prime probably it's cheaper, or so probably say. That's the best giving service available at the moment. And know it's takes a lot of your solve to prop up a'mas on the after what they did to IMDB, what they do we generally to be honest. Oh, yes, more a lot to through in general. So I'm not sure if I'll ever joined. I was on prime, but the did give it a good cell there, so it right. Now, I'm actually only a member of Netflix and I only got that after that. But then make even start, as I had see her before, and then I went up to one, though I would be interested in joining you, Bee, and if I were to join the third one, they would probably be a'most prying because you hear some pretty good things about them. But I'm not a great need to join them at present, name he missing some pretty Great Amazon Prim originals. If you're not a prime member, unless you are like things like the bar at sequel. I care a lot the Rosamond pipe film, the restally one I go ouden globe. It's an excellent film, and those Amazon prime original. So I guess that's sort of out of why I kept up my netflix members should beyond the original gift car that I was given. It's just as you got all these, you know, films which I'm think will get too shortly from notable filmmakers coming out, yeah, which otherwise can't be legally accessed. Oh really, so they don't. Actually, I haven't seen enough the films you mentioned, but I've heard and I was greatly interested in the broad sequaled that suddenly everybody loves it. So and maybe I'll try to see it after all. But a really double. Some prime movies aren't actually released on DVD, BLU ray or anywhere else. When I do, I know of Whoa it comes of them. HMM, all right, all right, that's a prime effix. Okay, yeah, fair enough. They do think I have Netflix. Yeah, I don't think I'most some promised. Don't anything happen that excited that I had to join yet, like they didn't have scored safety working there. They didn't have bond working that. Maybe I missed someone bait, but it's good to know at least that they're stepping up like that. They do. They do have a better film selection of Horn the Netflix, I would say. I think that's likes better form. But one thing that makes net six more opinion for film is if you use a VPN, speaking of things that's May or may not be good to talk about, but you do get access tough lot more with that. The other days I watch twenty four eyes, you know, the Japanese film from the S, because it's on that. Japan, and same with them, was on fire saying with any streaming service that has a different library depending on the country, that's that really gives you a lot of access. Yeah, out of the VPN, but this is probably gonna get to that anyway. I don't know. Yeah, I'M gonna BE P and yet I know I've heard good things about what you can do when you've got a VPN, but I don't know, I'm never got around to it. In speaking of big films that attract you to a shimming service, I recently was very disappointed to learn that small acts, you know, the series of films by Steve McQueen, which sounds very exciting to...

...me. I don't know what streaming service there are in your country, but friends, it's on a new streaming service that just launched. Could some sounds okay, but I mean, you know, having to subscribe to a new service always like yeah, I really want to feel those. They haven't come out and they were. I can I know they're on the BBC One, but obviously I'm not in the UK, which is really annoying. Yeah, over here, just a google search around Fox he'll go. So if you've got a premium subscription to Fox tell you can get them yeah, it's are. I'm not really big into our TV anywhere, though I do like some stuff that Steve McQueen's done as a director. I mean it does bring up, your say TV. The fact that's that's like that streaming services really really put into question what is CV or not right. I mean, yeah, most of the SIM critics to consider those to be movies and am structure argue you have. was just going to say, like, yeah, one of those films topped think you came in on first, second or third on the site and sound pole as well. He loves US Rock, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's a whole debate that maybe we don't want to get into, but it's such anly. Shooting services really big part of why that's a debate. Right, it's really blowing, blowing the lines of lots. You so because you can just say, Oh, it's released in the theaters and it's movie, because obviously a lot of things that our movies are not Tristici us. Yeah, look, I think a lot of it comes down to structure. How's IT structured? Is actually set into episodes? Is Sort of like built up to climax as and again, I guess that blurs a bit with miniseries or so. So, yeah, I guess it's interesting thing to the Bibe, but you're not for this podcast. Yeah, we don't have five hours ahead of us, but with an agree and I mean I do think, though, that talking about original movies, I think, if it is the case, for instance, as you're saying, that's going to be more and more great Amos on the original movies, that I did look it up and I didn't see anything. I would be immediately wrong to their right now, but I'm sure you will be and there's surely some of those that sold. They probably sell to me right now and I would get excited. But if it did end up that they would be these massive movies by directors we love, more actors will love coming out on I'm Asam Netflix, BBC player, even if they if they go a globe, I'm not sure if they are Hulu and just a long list of independent services everywhere. It would perhaps beautiful problem to sign up to all of them at the same time. So I think at that point is secually just get an extreme table situation. I mean it's just the same thing really, it's just a different way of accessing it, but we need the same thing as cable. Certainly, whigion knows other degrees in like so mentioned, the way that Netflix has gotten into Oscar movies and for me, like soda drew follows for season. They took this so they see if it's still and it is a big reason why I'm still subcrips Netflix right to see like I haven't seen trial, the trial of the Chicago seven yet, but I know I will. Stuff like that. It's definitely a big argument from for Netflix and for any shimming platform. Yeah, exactly. I mean that's one of the main reasons, aside from the TV shows that I use, that they do have several big original movies by great directors that I've want to see and I can see them there right away. And and the obviously you won't get that chance. It is in the my either. So that's it's the only way to really see them for a while. Like you said, it's take to take years to get out on DVD, which is shocking, but wow. Yeah, it's mention not mentioned stuff that's not an etix original, but so mentioned any nation and that did not come out in theaters here. It just came out to it Netflix I think what happened there was that they had the mess up with the producer is and they wouldn't didn't want to release it, so they released it through a Netflix everywhere. What's not? No, no, not in the US. In the US, him out and get us, okay, but everywhere else anyway. I thought it was really in there for a week and then Netflix bought up the rights to it, and that's what I heard at least, and it wasn't screen cinemas after that's running at a very short cinema line. Okay, yet it's it's the it's on Netflix original, but it was. It did become exclusive to them for a while, but everything that's exclusively along was then. It has been released on DVD and BLU right now, but it was like for quite a while, a couple of years or whatever, it wasn't Netflix exclusive. But the too continder that a little bit. And so if, if it is actually case, we do have the opportunity to see, I feel as it's well those situations where a film opens on streaming and it's in Thema on the same day. And this does happen, and there's even been cinema set up for Netflix specifically in certain countries. So if you get that choice, a film opens same day, you can see it on the dreaming service or you can go to the cinema and watch it on the big screen. which do you actually choose? So it's very simple for me because it is literally impossible that they would get that choice. It's literally illegal in time for him to come out at the...

...same time. We have this releast window. It's very strict. People are talking about changing it's but yeah, it's like I think many mum is six months which yet it was kind of a source of the big controversy. See, I don't know if you remember at can a few years ago. Yes, I remember her right when Ogaja was I think. Okay, I know another thing I don't remember. Well, you know, in the men's late and theater owners where outage. So yeah, it's it's really impossible. But for me it would be very easy if that did happen eventually, because I have a subscription to cinema chain. So I mean it's it's the same thing. It's like a streaming service in your life. So I would obviously choose to go to the cinema. For me it's very simple. Yeah, look, I'm likewise. For me it's not an option. It ever has been. But if you've got the same laws as what's going on in France. But there's never been a single film released on streaming services and in cinemas at the same time here. Those so some films. Can Remember. I went back up of years ago here were last MON or. Did you go see in cinema? Did you stream? And I'm like, Oh, well, you know, I streamed it because there was no option to see in cinema what film that might have been. But yeah, it was one of those Netflix films and just like yeah, like it wasn't an option. With Rama, the Alphonso Quran film, it did get shown a couple of times in an outdoor cinema as a special, you know, like once off, like event type thing, but in terms of being regularly shown regular cinema screenings and streaming at the same time, yeah, the option just doesn't exist in Australia in terms of whether I'd make that choice in a fantasy well, to stream something or see it in the cinema. Yeah, look, I hate to a disappoint everyone, but it depends on the film. I know if when Tom Listens to this podcast is going to get very annoyed about this because he's like cinema, going purest but perfect conditions. You'll be fine, I'm sure. Yeah, that's not gonna happen with me, but I'd rather watch a mediocre or bad film at home than in the cinema. If it's a good film or a great film, I'd always like to watch in the cinema every time. Would prefer that, but if it's something which is mediocre about I prefer to be watching it at home. Sometimes it's harder to tell, but you know, you get like some films like one night in Miami, which all that's a prime one that Chris might be interested in, as Oscar bars film. It's not very good, though. Yeah, that's what what I heard. Yeah, with one night in me, my m out already had low expectations forward. So I was very pleased to be able to stream it and if I had the option for that one, I wouldn't have chosen to go to the cinema because I wasn't expecting to be much good. And behold, it wasn't much good. Some strong performances, decent dialog, but it's basically like a radio play. It's not very cinematic at all, and then I would have got very anty watching and cinemas if I had the choice. So something like I care a lot, which should be the prime film that Chris should be seeking out? Yeah, that's the one. I've heard about that. Yeah, it's like sometimes a comedy, but it comes more of a thriller. So it's a bit of a black comedy. Comes from over thriller. It's from the director of the disappearance of ours creed, because a British thriller from about ten years ago. I didn't never saw that. Yeah, but Um, anyway, for something like I care a lot, if I had the choice, I was expecting that to be good. I would have seen in cinemas. Yeah, look, for me, it really depends on the quality of the film. But, as I said before, it's in my fantasy world, because reality and Australia, like France, are not going to be able to watch a film in cinemas. The Science Times on a screaming device will be on one or the other. It won't be on both at the same time. Yeah, that's that's fair enough. I mean, I'm not even sure if that's will up where I live now, but I mean I would say that it also depends on the film. It does certain films it's no point in actually paying that extra money for if you can see it and hobbly if you think it might have been that good. But then again, if it's might top it. I did by watch it, but but there's there's definitely feels that would be more excited about the see in the cinema. Do I do think that, just for the really bad cinema selection here, I would probably have tried to go to see anything I was getting newly interested in at the cinema, because it's just, it's just essentially all you get is these big action films. A lot of them are like if you think they would beat here just looking at the posters and and that's pretty much it. Like occasionally around the Oscar Bu season, you get something and something can stay a little while, but like even something like the favorite and know I can plain about in a previous podcast, but literally just came here for a week and it was calm and I lost my opportunity to see that the cinema. So there's yea, if something that was anywhere near decent amount of interest, I would always choose the cinema. But I'm going to carry the torch for film curism in terms absence in this case, because for...

...me, tweet doesn't depended on to me anything, even the bad film. I would rather be watching it in cinemas because I would rather be forced to at least try and find something in it, as opposed to have the freedom to do something else, which is definitely what I do. If about forty five minutes in that I'm not into a fin so, but in cinemas, because I think it's is a positive that you are the cap save audience. Literally. I mean you can walk out, but take that. I don't know. People are free to, but I don't so. Yeah, even about thing, I would rather be watching in INCIMA's. Personally, I'm sorry, this is torrable. Other cope, but I remember we do shared yesterday. I have no fear of volting. So it there on the poor about by army. I thought you walking out of good am I talky's first film, like in now we're him the fifty down smoking. So it's you with your own son's filled with this technically a possibility. That's that's rough. That is that is rough. As much as I love the maker. The person does not seem like a her. In his defense, tales of bird see if the worst people the film. But come on, if you're going there to your childe's could play. It's very word. You should say yes, exactly, exactly, but there's there's three. All know that it's on the table. Walking out does happen, though, to be honest with you, I never have. I've never walked out of a cinema and I don't think I ever would. I think, in fact, that almost never turn off a film. I think it's extremely few scenarios I've turned off a film. It's either if it's terrible quality and that this realized, that, Oh, I can wait until this actually gets a proper blue a restoration to say something. All this only is on Youtube and I'm just hoping a hopefully this will be released again and not going to waste my time on this. Is Not going to get enjoyment of it. With exception of that and a couple of films that would clearly awful, probably the turn off out. Probably turn off less than ten films in my life, to be honest with you, and this is a social situation, so that's not really something I do. But at the same the mouth never walked out never would. And you're completely right, Matthew. I do think that as the cinema makes every film better and just that seeing it on the biggest screen, being at captain audience like, even if it's not a particularly good film, the experience does usually become a very leastbearable and moderate enjoyable just because of that that experience. I clarify something here. I don't walk out of films in the cinema either, and I don't start watching films. I don't give up on a film. I mean I have like a twenty minute roll in the past where if I go the first twenty minutes, I go for the rest of the film. I really it's really hasn't really been an issue for me lately on the last few years. If I start watching a film, I'll finish it, but I won't necessarily finish in one go if it's a bad film. On much rather watching a few chunks rather than they have to be forced to sit there and enduring one go in the cinema. So that's difference between a good film and a bad film. Or I'm sorry, just all it's just why that you guys are talking about it. It's not come across that soult turns off all these films halfway through, but I did. I don't turn them off, I just, you know, pause them and I come back to them later when I'm in a better mood or when I feel like coming back to it. I just so if it's a film that I'm not enjoy I got rather not force myself to have to endure it because I'm in a cinema there's no way of pausing it. I would like to have that option of being able to take a break. So it's the difference for me about whether I'd see a good film or a bad film in cinemas where I can watch her at home, where I've got that option of being able to pause and then come back to a bit later. typicalar sort. I don't think you're the fitting of this podcast. That had any better. When I when I watch a family don't like it's again to be starting. I give it thirty minutes of frettention and then after that I sometimes straight start doing just something else. I really pause. It's and this add something to do, but that's doesn't have to do with the quality of the film. But I just start doing something else and just paying attention to something that's at the same time which is not great. But to get it's only if, if I'm not into the thin. As far as working out, I've only done it once and it was you know, I was kind of hesitant to go in at first to in the first place, and it was a beautiful day outside and I had work to do. But since started good, but after twenty minutes it was the Maggie Smith Fin the woman in the window. I think it's not terrible, but after fifteen minutes I was like, okay, it's not that interesting and I have substitutes, but the only two write in the back. Yeah, amating about yeah, the window. I don't know whether yeah, I again pay. It's just wasn't that engaging, you know. I mean I can enjoyed being a bad guy for Thomas. So it's just okay, or even relatively...

...good, but not very good. Like I can do the same thing even if I don't do anything else, my attention will start to drop. Yeah, don't don't know. No proper workout, but definitely other stuff. But I've even talking a little bit outtim saying that in general, Netflix is better for TV. Yeah, I mean they could. The Queen scambit was actually a netflix original. that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was. Did you watch it, Chris? Yeah, yeah, it did. I didn't. I mean I'm sure something is here re folded in the writing, but it really felt like a extremely cinimadic work that you know it had. It's not a boy a Kis the book on the patient. It had that kind of almost todd Hinz classic era film feeling, with great acting, beautiful cinematography, and they managed to make chess really exciting to this everybody around the world. But I don't hate chest. I mean Norway loves chess in general, but, like everywhere the world, chess became massive because of this show. So I think it's just it just shows how high the production values could go, because these were proper, dreamly proper production values, like the kind you would only see in a big budget studio film. So it's great and something like that could be made by Netflix as a TV series. He's completely off topic. That's just really popular before, in a way, before Macisconsin came to the scene. No, probably not that much. I remember there was a big chest musical every lert us. Yes, okay, about the chest musical in school. Okay, but about this. Cars didn't come from nowhere. There was a big subculture. But no, I like after the Magic Carlson like became a big player in the world, like everywhere, like when there's a test tournaments, that's the top stories on all the newspapers, like the cover pictures and all of the home newspapers and like the top five stories and everything online. So yeah, chess SSS baked the yes, the Quin scam, but became massive. They're to like their eywhere else. But but yeah, she's is big in Norway. We'll just thank you for that promotion of the recent test culture. What is your favorite Netflix original? Well, my favorite, so I just did a ranking this morning. Turns that I've seen twenty four and netfist originals. I don't know if that's a lot of not a lot of not sure, but my favorite so far would be, I'm thinking of a nick things, the Charlie government famer. But I mean if we ever do, and we probably will do a two thousand and twenty episode at some point, I will definitely talk about it more. But yeah, it's a gorgeous film and good acting by Jesse Berkeley and and Jesse Clemons and but I would start to mention the fact that Netflix does a lot of great documentaries. I think they've been very influential in that feeling in particular, and documentary is you really have an idea what a Netflix documentary is, and my favorite out of those would be shirkers documentary by send it down about her own attempts to make an indie film in the S in Singapore and which kind of turns into a bit of a not true crime exactly, but a bit of a mystery. I really recommend it. Okay, I didn't make a list of all the Netflix originals that I've seen. Put Top of my head. I'm thinking of every things now. The Charlie callrom one is a really great film. Marriage story is an excellent film. Beyond those ones, because the pretty much the more obvious ones. Film that I'd like to give a shout out to us one with a really long title. It's cord I am, the pretty thing that lives in the house. It's a horror film by as Perkins. There is a director made this amazing film with Emma Roberts called February, or the black coats daughter and it's a very atmospheric film. The film's got a very low rating and IMDB I think it's a four point something writing. But it's just because it's been marketed in netflix marking. People are going to expecting a scary, boom moment, strong horror film, which I was Perkins doesn't do as a director. So it's it's a really great atmospheric film and I would definitely recommend it and be along among my favorite originals. Beyond that, I guess Bala Bus destruds was pretty good and in the eye chat we're just talking about films that we are debating with another. Actually originals or not? Or maybe not. Okay, just been given this link to Ladys netflix originals and movies. That the first film listed is like the sorry about that. It was the first one listed. Is I care a lot. which is a prime originals? Well, on Netflix original. So I don't know. He made this list. Yeah, but damage it's tend to be. But it's Netflix. Actually, I think I can atouch is on Netflix here. So I don't know. Netflix just a called things. They called things netfix originals. That aren't a huge debugger earth. Okay, they do that a lots with the French films a few years ago. I mean,...

...whatever, the the straight up liar. That's an engine of on the it's and I guess you can stretch the definition to I guess they're the first to have it kind of because it's original on their service. So, yeah, exactly, that's definitely the yeah, this mission using. Yeah, I mean if we were using the every definition possible, the one they're promoting as an original will probably be uncle jems like that's really strong and I think so we'll agree on that. Talking about it from the two thousand and nineteen episode, I mean that's that's next. That's next sceptional work, but that's not that was not actually produced by them. Now, so did you show the care on all agree? I said you would agree. No, as one of the dissenters of I'm Oh, you were all damn it, even want the same thing was. Never Mind, never mind, so disappointing after good time. It's good time. It's just an amazing film, which I may my not promoting the two thousand and seventeen podcast. Yeah, just such an amazing film and I got uncut gems. I'm like, wow, this is auch disappointment after good time and put me up so much. Okay, fair, fair enough, friendough I'm looking at that actual original now and actually don't think that many of them are great. Also, they're counting the other side of the wind, a's and original, which that we get the edited it. But like it's also the wells in the S. it's so no. But yeah, I know I'm guessing. It would have to be films like the Irish man and Roma, the seels, no film. And okay, I think actually OKA might be my favorite of this. Like they did not actually like that. They have a few films that I would relatively great, like seeing all of this forest of long but that's not one of his best films, far from it. And obviously Irish man, at least to me, if far from one of scour stays his best films. So they get some great productions, but they're not the very best productions yet, though. I have still to see. I'm thinking of ending things. I'm really excited about that. I've just been too focused on some of their challenges and the the ICM Forum Film Festival that that I'm working on now as well. So I haven't prioritized it because it's so big and would qualify for the festival. But I'm definitely going to see that before our twenty twenty episode when they had mentioned about the Netflix original production. Is like they do a lot of different things. Like they do what you say, which is take big directors, convinced big directors to work for them, like scosss and Quahn, and that's, I'll just you play for respectability, basically, for being seen as a legitimate actor. But they also they find niches that are kind of abandoned, like home comes. I mean, I'm not a big homecome guy, so I haven't watched the tool the boys I love before is that twice called you know it, which was a big phenomenon the name. I haven't seen it. I don't really want from come very often. Yeah, but what, whatever the case, maybe they they I think that's a positive thing they do. I think the awesome, wellest thing, I mean that film. I don't know that it would have been released without them. I do think we have to give them some credit there. Oh, yes, I mean probably be released in some way at some point. I mean it's been in the disputes for fifty years almost, or like actually not in disputed been. It was incomplete from I think seventy two and then obviously after wellst died without finishing it, it was in disputes every since, every since the early eighties. So yeah, but I'm really happy they stepped in. I don't know how big a role they played in all of that, but I'm just so happy it was finally released and that it got the big audience it got us all because obviously if you release Orson Wealth Films recut fifty years after it's made and you maybe if we get a few specialty in them as creatings and then we go straight to DVD. So yeah, there was a day with that film was wonderful. Definitely. Yeah, and there have been getting a little better. I think about all the Fens, like at least on French that fix resiently. They added to four films and shadow films more recently. I know. I feel like it's getting a little better because initially they really had very little at yeah, the old film selection is getting better. On it fix Australia also they have a lot of kunk Fu films from the s early nine things, which is bit of a niche things that't really come out in DVD here. That's pretty interesting. They've also got a few oldish and Egyptian classics which seemed really ran and but they're on there. But they do have a few interesting things. But just the range that I've got compared to Amazon primes. Again, it's nothing, but it is building, I guess. Yeah, that's true. It's good for buddy wood two. I mean we talked about on how doing on the two thousand and eighteen episode, and that's on Nettrix and not not, I feel like a lot such of the recent big body which films do end up on them. So that's definitely positive in terms of contemporary like popular cinemas from something lander world, not so much as house pets. Yes, it's a great service just get accessible films from around the world. It's really good. Also, wanted to just add into this that I never really looked specificallyly at what is a Netflix original, but I do know that there's a lot of exciting new films that are released quite quickly to...

Netflix, like some things like the policy. That remembers when the world broke open and a lot of films is around the world. That really striking and get an extra distribution through Netflix I think that's great and even if they don't necessarily produce all of these films, one of the really good things I think Netflix is doing is that they're in a similar position almost to eight hundred and twenty four. I don't want to compare them too much because I think get did they for as a much greater output and the quality of the films and much greater. But they've actually brought back that mid Bun shit big film again that everybody we're complaining with is appearing from the cinemas with the advent of the superhior blockbusters and the blockbusters in general, like even scoresacy being able to make. The Irish man that was something he's struggled with. So I think that Netflix is actually providing a service in getting those and more serious mid budget dramas and the crime films, etc. Out and giving them a good audience, and I'm really happy about that, even though I think the best of that it's hopefully still to come. Yeah, it was always funny to me to hear American critics complaining that mid budget films. Don't think this anymore because it's basically the dominant form of cinema. I'm friends it's because we don't have a bug busters. We have out house at budget. But yeah, I mean again, the definitely looking at stuff that start exploited. Especially Netflix. I feel like they're the only ones that really have a strategy in terms of producing original content. It doesn't seem like Amazon prime it cheas later Hap as it. What they would ease is like, oh, we have this opportunity, we do this, but I don't feel like they have a strong identity yet. And then you have stuff like so mentioned, like shutter. I don't know if they produce Shims, but they might eventually and they have a very strong identity and truly produce a films even yeah, it's basically like prime. They just do stuff that's kind of random. So so, yes, shut up. Okay, you're just to clarify. Shutter to have originals. The film that I signed up to watch and shot a host of fifteen minute horror film with from a ZAM conference is a shutow original. They do have originals. Lock that and they've got a few others. But are then have a lot. They're probably got maybe able a prime. I definitely have as may original this Netflix has. Yeah, I think, like we talked about earlier, like the big focus of Netwick. This clearly the TV shells, the Netflick. They were do thing. So many fairly big high production TV shows out there and probably lower production to and just working in so many different countries. I mean they're producing shows all around the world, like give my life and I watching this Danish show Rita right now. It's not the greatest thing ever, like like the simple moral of the story. I kind of episodes like almost from the golden girls. They're up, but it's a perfectly good show. And the fact that that's like this literally producing Japanese films, that producing Spanish films. They're all over the world producing and releasing these films. It's really interesting as well to actually the not just making American films of British films. They're all over the world. Yeah, and you've got this funny phenomenons that happened. Like it's not a netex originally, but are you guys aware of I mean I guess Chris probably is of like I said, it papen or what's the English name? Money Highst, I think it's named. It's this Spanish TV shows at that that was picked up by Netflix and it was a huge phenomenon in at least here and I think all over Europe. So the matter. Yeah, I haven't seen that yet, but yeah, it's massively that advert every I mean I've see I've seen the first episode. It's honestly not, not great, but that's what I just think it's interesting because because the US, I mean it's like not known at all in the US and I suspect, I don't know about what you saw, but I suspecting Australia, I probably is not a big thing either. No, not as biggest something like the Queen's can, but which everybody's talking about. It work and I'm like, Ye, watched heving and I I was aware of money highs because when I did the US finish challenge last you, when I hoisted it, there were a few users who are sting on their viewings up there in the challenge. So I am aware of it. Yeah, but yeah, it was a really messive thing here and yeah, Netflix is producing lots more local things. In our case. I think it's because they are literally required to, so you know who they've gotten in order to get funding and stuff. I mean you have to produce a certain amount of French content. It's definitely from music, I think. I think they have been basically ordered to but it's also a good strategy, I mean, and it's a good thing. I mean you have haven't watched it yet, but the German to be shot dark. I've had good things about that. Anyway, it's generally a good thing like that, that it's bringing some some money essentially, into the different seeds. All of those in the say to like you probably are about the loopin is blowing up as well, like the French frime felt everywhere. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was surprised. It was funny...

...because when, when it was released, I was reading everyone that I heard talking about the show that was American or my not French, was staying positive things, and all of the French people were like yeah, it's fine, I guess, but it maybe it's because a Sidden, you guys, are something we have a very strong connection to here, where as apparently he's not that well known. Off this is not probably not a mean me. I thought you even that did work on the TV show about like based on the similar thing here, said a loopin. So I mean, I guess to an extent, but obvious not as muttered in France. Yeah, definitely be like here. He's like shutter comes. I mean it's like the same level of fame. The finish each other. A huge thing. Yeah, there's two there that nowhere. There that like. There's all some of the French movies about those and loop in us, but it's yeah, I never realize it was that massive, that that's in. That's interesting, though. This also took a little bit of track talking about all these potentially great movies that's been made for Netflix and the fact that we relatively optimistic, I think about the future and what they're going to produce and how they're producing things. Now seems like we agree that they seem to have a relatively solid plan, even though it the apparently forced to make some of these things in other markets. But let's ask this question then. Do you think it's wise of the bigger directors to work specifically with Netflix? Is there any negatives to think of? Say, as Chris when specify, couldn't make it any other way, so I guess you had to. But if it's something negative with this big name directors going to Netflix, I mean the obvious negative is that's it's less likely, that's your thing? Will you get seen in theaters? And obviously that's, you know, for someone like Cantino non and it's definitely big deal, and I get that. But from what I understand, they do get at least established femmakers likes Cassese, like people like that, they do get a lots more freedom when they're working with netflicks and with others. I do not think it's the case with people who are starting out. So I think Netflix is a studio like any other in the end, I mean that's what they'll be Indiende I'll make money in right now they are kind of Uji friendly. Who knows how long it we last. Yeah, I don't think there's same problem with filmmakers going on Netflix, I mean, other than maybe being shunned by some of their colleagues for doing it. Yeah, like Matthew said, gets a whole lot of the artistic freedom, especially if they're bigger name direct and it might not get their films shown cinemas that much, but it would definitely get them a much water at audience because people who might have been, you know, on the fence. But whether or not I want to see films from that direct I've actually got the opportunity to watch a home for free, which might get them then exploring the directors all the work. So I don't think there's any drawbacks at all. Yeah, more or less true. Yeah, I mean I think in the early days you were really worried about aduction values like doing. We were all people complaining about this how digital, for instance, the buster strokes looked. But I think at this point all of that sort of outs. Aside from not being able to see that cinema, or at least being less likely to see that at the cinema, there aren't really any negatives with this and it might even be a massive positive. So I think overall, like we've been talking about doing asking whether or not Netflix is hurting the industry, if Netflix and streaming in general is bad, and it doesn't really seem like there's anything too bad about it. Like we we all more or less agreeing that Netflix is relatively good in almost in anyway, it seems. I wouldn't say that again. The company that's how to make moneys are not good or bad. have positive and negative influences. Again, I do think that there is a real concern of the cinema experience being harder to access than it was before, especially with covid. I mean we'd definitely see, and we probably have seen already, cinema's closing. It's any of the press forms. That's you know, it is a change that is going on that that's not positive. But I think there is sometimes from some people tend to see to treat Netflix as a devil, and that's just equally simple minded, I guess. Hmm then, I really don't think Netflix in itself, it can even work cinemas that much. Like. Obviously, if more and more massive films are only shown on Netflix, yes, but so far that's not really the case. Like all of the major blockbusters that's Sind themas have been focusing on have still been made for cinemas. It's not like the next like. I mean, I guess due to the pandemic that's been there some exceptions and it might be more, but that's the pandemic specific issue. Yeah, but think is other pandemic specific issues, I mean kind of affects everything. We haven't done it. I think everything that the fact that Rolls Stud did so well as it did. Streaming could be an issue for cinema specifically in the future. But personally, I mean cinemas, have it more or less destroyed already. Mean, I guess it depends counter my country,...

...and I I assume France, to to cinema culture is doing much better than most other countries. But like, at least for me, that access to films by Gay filmmaks is very limited, like it's almost exclusively brought blockbusters being shown and those films, at least I assume, will still be shown at the big squeen simply because their blockbusters and they draw those big amounts. Maybe troll too will change that, but I just don't see it. So at least four the films I have access to, I really don't see a big change because the selection is so poor already. But I can see if for someone where the selection was actually pretty good, like this would be a major problem, like if in the master starting to shut down, which they argued a pandemic, but if streaming was actually doing so many big original films and we're turning people away from cinemas and you would certainly not be able to see great these great films at the cinema anymore. Yeah, that would be horrible and I can see why would be concerned that case. But fortunately, or I guess unfortunately, that's not really concern for me at the moment because the selection is so bad already technically where I am. It's unlike it should be a concern because I'm, yeah, Paris, and even if a ventials small kidders in parish do close, which probably would happen, they will see me probably an incredible selection for a long time. I do think it's a bigger issue for people in the Middle Right, people in kind of big cities, but not as big in that has centered on culture as pooses. But I don't think it is an issue and it's not so much to me about necessarily. Blog duster being released on streaming is small people have a limited income that they can spend on culture in general, and so the more streaming services you are subscribed to, the less money you have to give to cinemas. And essentially, so do you think that? I mean TV's also factorate. I do think the more streaming services existing people are subscribed to, it can't be a good thing for small cinemas. I think multiplexes would be fine. Yeah, I don't know, I'm not worried about it. All the things that I suggested earlier on, if I mentioned the podcast already or not, was that Netflix and streaming services are forcing cinemas to evolve, all the our film industry to evolve, so it might reach the point where cinemas no longer exist. That, I guess that would be a bit of a shame. But it's also just the way that them is like evolving and changing. I mean, as we discussed earlier on, the changes for TV, changes for where things came out of home video. They really rock the way that films were made and you look, cinema might come out of it. Still. I guess I don't live too far away from the CBD here. However, I'll just try to take in terms of like DVD rentals, like you can't rent DVDs any longer or that's got. There's one place left in Perth, in my city, where you can rent DVD is. Otherwise you can't rent them any longer. You know, that's disappearing, that's dry up because of streaming services, and I guess the same thing might happen for cinemas. But then again, the way people consuming films is different and I don't know if that's a problem. It's just maybe moving with the Times. I mean I would miss not being able to go to the cinema, but there is benefits of being able to watch at home and I guess, yeah, I guess I'm just going all with the flow of it. I was definitely very reactive towards it at first, but now look subscribe to for streaming services. Yeah, just see as a way of life. It's probably going to be my future of field consumption. I'm no longer really going to be going up to the cinema often purchasing DVDs by more bookcases for them and going to be streaming th stuff then. You know, that's fine for me at the moments. What works? You're fully joined the dark side. What's the what's the CBD that's mentioned? I'll sorry, the central business district. So, even though I'm Okurth, I mean a suburb Perth. So there's no there's like one, but there's really like any cinemas that are close to me, like I want to see like an art house film or whatever. They have to drive, you know, like two one of the suburbs which is really close to the city, which you know isn't too much for a problem, but I guess you don't driving back and forth finding parking the expense of at the expense the parking compared to being up streaming at home. Yeah, I don't know, see if I still cinema still exists in a few years time. Oh yeah, but that, by the way, do you have in Australia or in Morta? Do you have subscription services from false NEMAS fortunate cinema chains, like where you pay your monthly fee? No, no, no, I mean I'm a member tip car at the Artus. Yeah, Mota is kind of specially because it's more. But yeah, yeah, look, I'm the same as christms. No subscriptions. You can get to cinemas here are I...

...do have a membership card also for the local art house chain here, and the other cinema chains also offer membership cards. Ring Get sheaper films if you've got a cardia yearly fee. But yeah, there's no sort of package where I could just watch our limited films of this. Would they for like one single fee or whatever? And when people are in America or telling me about that on the IMD message was of like, how can this possibly exist? Because if they existed, happy at the movies all the time. But yeah, me to describing my life prepandemic all those lovely I mean it's been a thing for twenty years here, so it was funny to see it arrive in America and be this big thing. I do think it's a way for for big chains at least, to fight off swimming services. It's basically becoming their own streaming services. Except, you know, you're like yeah, absolutely, and I mean I've never been going to screamings. It's try empty. I mean this is why films are so like. Did you see proprietes during the day? For in instance, I remember seeing, okay, how many it but how many actually goes to the cinema? Hair and I went to see it after work and I was the only person in the cinema. It's all the time. This been situation later. But I'm friends, is evn't see things relative during the day, even relatively big films. There's been few people because everybody goes to what the Eight, ninety ten. So if this pass first every time, or is that specific time, it's yeah, it's for every time. It's wow. Yeah, but the very least I could see cinemas just throwing that in for the day. When they have empty seats anyways. And then all of the older people who granted at least a Multa get seper tickets. But they could just go there every day for like twenty thirty year olds, fifty year or some month or something. That been fantastic. Honestly, I don't know why everyone isn't doing this. To be honest. Yea, because you look at the attendance members, the chickens sold in friends and they're they're going putching. Well, I mean again, pandemic is going to change things. Much before the pandemic they were going fine. So, yeah, it's weird to me that this hasn't become the case everywhere. And with how expensive ticket prices can be now, it's pretty easy to be anyway. I'm not going through well, but I think this is lovely because one of well, if I mean quick question, and I think they would be, will wanted to speak about the ward first. They rather or not netflix them should actual qualify from ward. We can do that little diversion. But yeah, I so that will actually look at the impact let fix will have on the industry in the future. Will throw out the speculations and I think what you does said matter could actually fix almost any issue that we might be discussing that section. But there's before we get there, and this is just such a minor note for some people, but the big not for others. So should netflix films be allowed to participate in festivals and win award a bigger wards ceremon this, or should they be actually be excluded from them? My original stance on this was that they shouldn't be allowed to compete and win for Oscars, but I guess that was coming before I had a Netflix membership and I was very annoying the fact that all these films could potentially be winning awards and I have no way of accessing it without actually subscribing to the streaming service, and I guess that's one of the things which put me off Netflix in the first place and why I didn't get it. When, of first everybody else is getting one, I'm like, I just don't agree with this business model, that I have got no chance of seeing this film legally unless I have your streaming service. So I was really against that, but I guess now that I've been in Netflix member of been using this gift cards to keep my membership active or whatever. The last couple of years aligor Amazon prime and shutter and movie and I'm using other services. Yeah, I guess. You know, I like the fact that I can, you know what, watch films like one night in Miami and even though it's going to in those not really great film because we're like watch at home or whatever and thinkause it's going to like get a few nominations, it's kind of Nice being able to watch films like that. But yeah, I was definitely very big against it just, I don't know, poorly ethically, just the whole business model we're really did an appeal to me. I thought, you know, it's just like sucks whatever. You're putting this on the sponts service. Poor Cart watching less. They've got that service. No, that doesn't count the same as being able truly something everybody can see it. My attitude that has changed over the last couple of years. I mean I think this debate is basically over. It was a big thing a few years ago, but now there's really no discussion about it. They are eligible and it would become a ridiculous if they weren't, especially now with a pandemic, but even before they just reduce so many films I mean it would be so strange to exclude them. And even what happened at again is, I think, kind of a we be seen as an anomalde. I think, actually don't remember now, is they're aligible...

...anyway in the future. I think it would just love be a question. Yeah, look, I think it depends how the pandemic changes things, because they rule for the Oscars had always been that you needed to be shown in an American theater or in one of the cities in America that have been shown for seven days, for a week during that calendar year to be eligible for the Oscars. And so you had a whole lot of Netflix films which were being shown in cinemas just for that seven days so they could be eligible. Then they're being pulled. And then we had like the rule thing where it needed to be screened for seven days before became available, and streaming service, as for like things like Mandy, which was going to get yo Han your hants and I post humorous some Oscar nomination for his music score, was actually deemed ineligible because they started streaming it too early and needs to be in cinemas for complete seven days before it became available, and streaming services. That was a whole big issue. But of course of it they've had domic is changed things. They're just the rules for the two thousand and twenty one oscars, or I think for the two thousand and twenty one oscars. They've said, you know, for the Oscars this year, as long as it was intended to be released in cinemas, it can be eligible. So I've got all these filmmakers who are saying, yet we intended to release two cinemas. It's going to be eligible. I think they might. It's everything change, a clearing, with everybody getting faccinated, as like, and it's going to happen this skier and then haddemic, assumably being over by the time the next Oscars got roll around. I think this will change things and I think it might break the Oscars rule of it need to be shown theaters. I'm not sure, but I think it is going to change things going forward, which probably only be a good thing. I mean, even if, even if it doesn't being shown for ten days in Los Angeles is like, I mean, so tooken. Really it doesn't really changing nature of the same is Cill Nettingson or streaming, same whatever. Yeah, exactly when it doesn't help anybody else from for see the mother you guys for talking. Actually did look up the con rule because I remember them being banned. And Yeah, they're, they're actually is still not eligible. Obviously they didn't revisit that because of the pandemic, but they are from two thousand and nineteen. They have been. They're not knowligeable. Again. I think it's not that how to get around it, though. I think it was more of the principal thing when the whole debate with Ja happened. It's not a help for the fixed to release its in like Collis and actual the cities in France and be ilgible for can yeah, exactly. I mean it changes to the scope of it a bit, but yes, I don't actually think that right. Is Debate technically being over in terms of the offscared? So did make a great point they hadn't really considered, which is that it's a little bit like this blackmail proposition where you know you like this film, might win the were dominate that and you know how so many of us like chaking off lists. You can't take the final the final check, unless you pay extra monthly for this full service rather than just pay for seeing it at the cinema. There was actually tweet I saw of someone counting up the money you would have to spend it to see all the nominees this year as opposed to last here, and it was actually higher. It was actually you had to spend more money to see all the nominees. They counted up the multiple streaming services and the fact that a lot of them you have to rent online as opposed to the price of the ticket heater, and it was actually slightly more expensive. Oh Wow, okay, that's really frustrating, really frustrate like, in fact, it is more expensive did than see. Yeah, okay, if even though we're seeing it on the big swen really frustrating. That's a pandemic specific issue, though, so I guess we can't really fall any of the streaming service is properly for that, especially if it's this odd. What's the full of the Disney films, because it all they had a massive thing about the massive problem with that. Oh well, I guess just if we haven't talked about this in press, that's true, but I guess this the press. There was the whole new land thing where you had to pay extra like the Chuch. Yeah, exactly. Think, I think. I think that did not work out. So where for them, because they didn't do it for soul. So it was just available. Yeah, it is, gave up. It didn't work. Yes, I'm guessing we won't see too much of that. I'm hoping anyway. But in terms of price, definitely the swimming services. We mentioned cable earlier. I mean that's what it is. It's not going to be cheaper than going to theaters just but it's probably not, not necessarily going to be that much more expensive. But I don't think it's it's can be cheaper. Well, no, exactly, and insulted because it's a completely different service because you're not renting the like. You talk about renting, but like if it's an up for that service, you signed up for every film and every series they have. Like obviously it's going to be a little bit, at least a little bit more than the one film at the cinema. Yeah, the wenting was, as you mentioned, been an expecific thing because not of things that were not attached to tuning services came out in beauty. Answer. Yeah, it's it is append an explicific thing to some extent anyway. ANYWAYS, from...

...my part in terms real stability, I can see the concerns in terms of major a watchmini's like those script but I always want the those to be as representative of the fall day year has as possible. So I'm just gonna drow myself in on the bandwack and I say that that's the film to definitely be eligible. And, as we all also said, that the pay is over. So we're stumping into all the ground and we're agreeing with the victor, but it's so not sure I'm helpful that it's but at least rehash the debate a little bit. Have you guys participated in any online teen festival besides on ICNSSS, which is especial? Hum. No, I haven't just spend any online festivals. A lot of them on actually available in Australia or without a VPN. I'm a set pockets to out and on aboutable in Australia. So now I haven't. Yeah, same for me. I mean, if I was in France, probably it's must be something good going on there. I know that. I'm like. I've heard some are across all live lines and limits, which is great, but usually hear about these two late, so somehow I don't have a good enough news filter from when one of these big ones with major titles I'm really excited about will actually drop online. But often with these festivals they don't have the film some moverally interested in either. So it's a if calm never went online. Definitely, I mean if, if we're the Berlin all e went online, definitely so that there's a lot of these big your wants, I would jump up. But so far now, when I think Berlin is going on right now, and I think it's mostly the interest online and I'm not sure. I'm not so festival goal. So I haven't looked into its much. But yeah, Linton blins over there for it. Nine, the opst film recently became official, like a few hours ago on. I check the movies. Okay, but I think part of it was a man. I'm not sure. Oh, yeah, see here now. Yeah, the majority of the Devin time did. This is what I talk about. When I don't, I don't keep up the take of this stuff. It was online. This is how horrible. I would definitely like the new rather you. The film was therefore blood the house. That's what that's what we won, that's what wonder the good beam. All's fantastic. I'm really happy about this. Now they I was out to put old I learned something new on the air, even though obviously this will be edited the long time after this. There able they'll know. But thank you for its wonderful update of what this happened. But Anyway, I do think it's something that I should look into, like like participating a different festival, especially when you have, I mean, theliness. Probably it is probably one time thing, but I suspect smaller festivals might make still do it and that's definitely an interesting prospect. Yeah, I mean I participated in the Malta, in the Vallada festival here in Malta, which is all it has the capital. They're usually not the best filter. They been getting better before epidemic like it was actually working over tow the full week lass time with both. I was so frustrated with the the literally got belatre down there to have a to speak and they got they got a few big films. So I'm really hopeful levels of but themic is over. The continues and now keep participating and then you also have the social element. Rich. Yeah, which obviously won't have with what I was yeah, Swart it online once you don't have it, but they're with the real one even greater because it's sutually big event and it's much more likely to go with a lot of other people and it's much more likely to start up discussions afterwards, or it's a great thing to happen. Is something that I clearly can't happen with streaming. Be That netflikes beat that online festivals unless they have something specific, and obviously I sm F F felts great because we had a social element and I might all of our listeners to join them for the next ICEMFF at the end of this year as well. But just to close down this episode with our final, final hot topic, where we just going to go through all of our speculations, like how do you guys think that Netflix and the other streaming services like Ama, some prime will affect the industry going forward, say five, ten years? Will we see something drastic happen? Well, it's basically what we've been talking about all this time. Rights it's hard to say now as we are sit in the pandemic. I think a lot depends on what happens when cinema's fully reopen, how well they do? It's very difficult to say. But ad you thing, streaming is going to keep it getting bigger and I think especially Netflix is not going to be the only one releasing that to many movies. Like right now I'm as UMPLIMENT and all those, they're releasing some things. That's I think we're going to see a lot more people trying to challenge and let's Stix for other position. And Yeah, I suspect just to high of a portion of films then before we be produced to a gathol streaming. I'm trying to come to my crystal wall at the moment and I think a lot of it depends on what cinemas do themselves. Like over here we've had like gold class,...

...which is the are special, you know, seats and you get like a popcorn whatever during the film, and they've been dropping down in price because I guess that's an extra thing offering which streaming services cutoffers. So I think cinemas will need to be more credive with ways to attract crowds in it. Otherwise I do see it as possible to see most of them shutting down. I don't know if I'll see all them shutting down. I don't think any of shut down. Yeah, but yes, streaming is on the rise and I think, you know, cinema needs to evolve to keep being current. Otherwise I think it Willer by our but I guess we'll see what happens. It's much project will happen in five or ten years. I mean, going back ten years ago, streaming really wasn't even a thing over here and don't Ye know, see it goes Ye, my personal guess that to a massive change. Is TV in this reaction, affected far more than tin the Mus and I'm really expecting that, like we already seen with the BBC, that more and more of the big TV channels will turn into streaming services as well. And we said you're going to have more streaming competition that way. I think we see that happening already and I think that within ten years, if the trend continues and if Netflix don't some prime keep rising, that's what we'll have, like all TV will start dying off. Not for how fast or they might be the case that like to keep the TV channels and the streaming service at the same time, but I do think that most of the big team channels around the world will have to adapt for a world. I don't think cinemas, at least in my country, will be affected too much due to how they run right now. I really hope there's not a big change in France and countries like that would actually have, I'm really prosperous, great cinema culture. That will be awful, but to happen, I do you can have a semi hope that it will be more digital festivals, simply because getting that access directly at home would be phenomenal. Though let's see about that. That's more of a pandemic thing that maybe they realize, oh, we can make more money that way or hey, this was a great experience. Something we can see with that, but I don't think that's streaming specific. And finally, I do think that more and more great directors and more more great films will be made by these streaming services. I think what my Jo said earlier that they're probably gonna drop the authors more later on, might be quite true. That's t still think think you would end up being a solid studio unless something changes or other streaming services will be and that we will get more great films that way. So I don't really see any major negatives in the future, though I like but you I would be see some slight problems with this in the Mus Oh. But on the topic of cinemas, I really hope that we all adapt the system they have in France, that apparently the US, because that would be wonderful. I could, even though it cit cinema selection here is quite poor and I would probably use that. They would be fantastic just to be able to do that. So let's hope we can all learn from France. I do think other European countries have it, to be fair enough, were disliking behind. But if anyone is any big studio shame owners in Australia or in Malt I, guess are listening to this, please do adapt this. It will save you from the onslaught of netflikes. Almost some prime and the other streaming services. You, but we probably didn't hear it there first, but we are pushing that message out. So on that fairly positive note of the future with innovation, I had thank you so much for listening and join us again soon. You have been listening to talking images, the official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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