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Talking Images
Talking Images

Episode 56 · 2 months ago

Is Found Footage the Worst Thing to Happen to Cinema?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Do you agree with Sol that found footage is the worst thing to have ever happened to cinema? Join us to see if we can find hidden ground (did Sol like any found footage film?!) and explore the insane wave of Found Footage films starting with The Blair Witch Project. We'll explore everything from its very inception in the 1960s (yes, that's right!), why it took nearly 40 years to become a force to be reckoned with, and explore the rise, fall, best films and whether its moment is truly done.

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of I C M Forum Dot Com. Welcome back everyone, I'm Chris, and today we'll take on found footage in a scenario where most of us may just be forced to defend it. Asked. The question in our episode title is by no means exaggerated or trying to hype up the debate with over the top language. It is the genuine view of our deare co host Tal. I almost want to just jump straight to him so he can start carrying the whole subgenre down and prepare for a possible fight. But before them, I just want to reassure our listeners that it won't just be a screaming match. Were altogether negative, though there will be some of that. We'll also try to break down the strengths and weaknesses of the gendre won't is that grabs people with the fund footage technique in aesthetics and what led to their immense popularity? Is there perhaps something very powerful in this type of cinema, perhaps something only found footage can do, or at least is uniquely equipped to do? Oh and, as we will be diving into their popularity, will also be discussing the sub gendres declined and ask the obvious question. Where is fun footage today? Did it simply run its course? Did everyone just get bored? Or perhaps did more and more people simply start sharing salves opinion that is the worst thing that ever happened to cinema? Well, let's find out. Oh and we have a special treat for everyone today. A new voice is joining us. Before we get into episode, of like the welcome our brand new co host, so Ben. Say Hello Veryone, and maybe just give a quick introduction and then we'll dive into the debate. Hello everyone, this has been from Arkansas USA, excited to get into some fun footage debate. Very good. So let's just actually kick this off then, and get to where the episode gets its title from. Saul, what is it that makes fum footage divorst thing to ever happen to cinema? The title of the podcast came through something all discussing and chat and I did say in a very, you know, over top manner that found footage is the worst thing to have it to modern cinema. But you know, I do think there's some truth in that. I'm speaking from the point of view as somebody who actually teaches filmmaking two kids for a living. It's actually pretty impossible these days to teach kids how to create a really good, you know, suspenseful film when what they've been programmed, I think, these days, is let's just shake the camera a lot and it'll be scary and cool. And there's way too many films that the kids try and hand into me that's just got all this shaking footage because they're used to seeing it and they think shaking, shaking, shaking, equates too scary suspense about something's happening. But look, if I go beyond that, because I know found footage isn't just about shaky camera work, I think found footage actually goes against the very basics of classic cinema. Classic Cinema is all about invisible editing during the viewer in and disguising, or at least making you forget that what you're watching is something that's been filmed and recorded. Found footage goes against this completely. It constantly reminds us, while we're watching it, of the artifice of the medium, that what we're watching is something artificial. I think it's simply by nature less immersive because there's no chance forgetting that what you're watching is something that's being constructed. When it comes to Foun footage, that to me, as we'd called the worst thing to happen to modern cinema, because really, for me, found footage is the death of classic cinema. Interesting you don't think that that classic cinema might be a good thing. So that that that might be very start of the debate, because there was so much to say to that before. Then I would love to hear Tom's opinion because, discuss previously, see Talm is the biggest farm footage fan in the room. So, Tom, why is fumb not the worst thing to have ever happened to cinema? In response to what soul has just said, I don't see what is wrong with subverting the basics of classic cinema to try something new and different. Now I watch films for escapism, and the immersive nature of found footage films often makes me involved in the story. The technique. It can blur the line between fiction and reality, and this week's well for horror, because...

...it can ramp up the horror and place you in terrifying scenarios that feel incredibly real. Now, even with the over reliance on jump scares, they still often provide an unsettling experience that is altogether different to watching the regular horror film, and this brings variety to the genre that I love the most, and that can only be a good thing for myself and other horror funds. So I certainly see where Sul is coming from, but I think he's overlooking some of the aspects of found footage that make it feel like a refreshing extension of horror cinema and bringing something new to a genre that I love so much. On the subject of, you know, teaching kids film and they are being influenced by found footage as a shaky cam kind of implementation, I have to say thinking back, you know, when I was a kid I would actually shoot, you know, little short films on a camera, and this was back in the early nineties, before film footage was ever a thing, and I remember shaking the camera around a lot to add drama to it because thinking, oh well, if it's a static camera, it's going to be boring. I think that's just kind of a gut instinct and kids who don't have a firm understanding of film technique it's the easiest way to show motion. I'm not sure that film footage is really to blame for that necessarily. Yeah, in terms of the teaching part of it, okay, I do understand what you're saying. If I hadn't already given the kids some granding on how to edit and put a scene together, I would say it's probably a valid point. But I spend quite extensive time getting the kids to storyboard ideas, to plan, to shoot different shots from different angles and put it together, and yet it seems every second or third project, let's gets handed in that's still got this scene where it's just the camera running or whatever and shaking about, which to me it just doesn't quite capitalize on everything that they've been taught, given that I'm trying to actually show them things beyond just the shaking camera work. That just seems to be the go to point. But actually teach them is creatings, it's spent sequences as part of the curriculum and you're not really creating as its spent sequence if what you're doing is shaking the camera around. I definitely understand the frustration around that shaky cam and I personally don't like Shaky Cam implementations, but I would say that movies like the Bourne identity are equally to blame. While there's a lot more editing with those two, a lay person what they see is the shaky cam. They don't really think about the editing and the quick cutting and the film technique require the piece that together. So in their mind when they're trying to recreate that kind of scene they're just shaking the camera around. It is kind of a lazy way out. I think it might be onto something and I do think that Paul Green Grass, more than the films and a certain subgenre almost of action films, are just as much to blame as found footage. But I would like to jump on something you mentioned earlier, which I actually completely disagreed with, sult which is this idea that when you watch found footage films you are immediately aware that it's a film, that it's fake and its something being presented to you, because the found footage moment really exploded with Blair, which a large part of that was this idea that this is actually real Um, this is actual footage that has been found and even though that idea obviously quickly disappeared, the idea is that this is real. In the same way that a traditional movie might have beautiful shots, et Cetera, that you wouldn't necessarily see in real life from footage still works in the basic premise that you are watching something that is really it still has the illusion. It's just that the allusion changes, and that's one of the things that actually really appreciate with fum footage, because where in, if you real classic cinema, it's all about this Polish it's all about hiding the imperfections, but in fum footage imperfections could certainly work. Imperfections in the same way that imperfections has been played around with in Pant Garden Experimental Cinema for years to create various effects. Suddenly here you had a really popular medium where the screen could get damaged or they could be low quality or, you know, it might be not be able to see every detail, there might be glitches in the digital camera and so on, and it, at least to me, a large part of that work, because you are in worst...

...is that these are characters, they're filming these things themselves and in some ways they can even draw more into the film, because all of these imperfection actually adds to the realism of someone filming and experiencing this firsthand. So I actually completely discribtous all, I think that while it reworks the form below classic cinema, I. Whan they call it that, I still think that it can maintain this ability to pull viewers in and that they won't be aware that they're watching a film in that way because they are watching something that, in its world, is being filmed by someone. So that delusion, at least in my mind, is still there and can work just as well as in traditional films. Just to clarify, when I'm talking about down footage, what I'm looking at is not so much whether it's real or not real, but the fact that the film is presenting as footage. So if you think about I don't want to just say classic Hollywood cinema, but if you just think of like classic cinema or Guess Older Cinema in general or whatever, cameras in the room and it's still coming people, but the way it's cut together with different reaction shots, you're not hyper consciously aware that there's a camera there that's been filmed each of these shots that are put together. When you're watching found footage or anything at all that's been presented as footage. You're actually aware that it's you're watching, something is being filmed. So it's a difference between forgetting that you're not in the room with good Bergman and Humphrey Bogart, because you know it might get to the stage where you're so immersed in Casablanca that you feel you're right in the same room where those characters you're never going to get that feeling from a found footage film because with a found footage film it's always presenting itself as footage. So there's no sort of illusion. There's no chance to lose yourself and go, you know, I'm in this room or whatever with these characters. There's always going to be a distance because the film is presenting itself as footage, so it's presenting itself as something to be viewed rather than having the illusion of being in there. And Look, I don't think there's anything wrong as such with how being in affections and some experimental cinema quite big on some of their big new way stuff from the night in sixties, but I just think with the way that it's been done with found footage, I guess since Blair, which a lot of it just seems to be a cheap way of presenting a story and trying to make it seem more realistic, but I guess in the process of it making it seem less realistic. That seems like a bit of a conundrum. I guess maybe it is. But if you get to the stage where you're having to say, you know, these are characters watching this footage in order to make it more real, that to me makes it less real because I'm never going to forget in something like grave encounters. I'm never going to think, you know, okay, I'm inside this hospitalking out of these characters. I'm never going to feel that because it's always been presented to me as footage, which is, after it's being watched, not child clear. That is I understand what you're saying. I would say that I don't think film footage movies are trying to be immersive in a filmmak way. As you're talking about, pretty much all foulm footage is essentially a subgenre of mockumentary where they purport to be a real occurrence that you're complicit in by watching a found footage film and seeing someone potentially dying or have horrible things happen to them. They create that complicitcy which builds that suspense and creates a compelling reason to watch it. I kind of feel like you're digging them for something they're not trying to do. Now, having said that, I will say that for me, where I think a lot of found footage fails, because I'm not like Tom where I just I love found footage unequivocally. I do think there are some great ones and there are a lot of garbage movies out there as well. where I think they fail is where they don't hold true to their own artifice by the glitches, the cutting. It isn't realistic. It looks artificial. They add artificial glitches, or they have weird behaviors, or people do things like carrying a camera and filming when there's no reason for them to be doing that. They may have a throwaway line of a guy saying, oh, I just want to film everything, but that's to me when it takes me out. I agree with Ben there there are a few elements of found footage that will completely pull you out of this story, the main one being when a character won't discard their camera and run away from whatever has happening and they'll just carry on film and that is the worst one. But I never find it distancing in the same way that you do soul. I mean, I suppose we're kind of we live in the scenarios through the Gaze and the perspective of the person filming whatever is happening, and that for me, when it's done well, it feels immersive, it feels like I'm part of what is going on. In the best found footage films have a ten see two ramp up attention and build the suspense that keeps you...

...engross and on the edge of your seat, and I think that that's a great strength to bring and I'll just quire find it. And the Ben said that a lot of found footage films. UNEQUIVOCALLY, I wouldn't say I wouldn't go that far. I am I am a fan of found footage, but I am aware that there are a lot of failed found footage films. On the point that's all brought up, I guess that's part of where the disagreement is, because obviously people view and experienced films differently and I've never had that experience of being in the room with someone because I forgot that that wall wasn't real, and obviously a lot of people, including all, do so I can see why, on that level, found footage films cannot do that the same way, but in the way that when people want a traditional horror film and they see someone sneaking outside of someone's window, et Cetera, and they look over their shoulders and look out, I do think that found footage has that same effect. People start worrying that these things could happen to them when it's done and that specifically horrifically. I'm sure a lot of people watch later which project then started to be afraid of going into the woods, and I'm sure a lot of people watch a normal activity and started being really worried about noises surround their house. So I think that these films still have the ability to doing worse to to the extent that you start becoming afraid. I don't really have much else to add onto that. I think it does come down to how you experience films. I just use Casa Blanca because you know, that's the popular favorite, but there's like several films that, if I'm really enjoying it or whatever, I do actually forget that fourth wall or whatever to get that I'm watching it on a TV set or forget the ipad screen, and Justin highly focused on the world of the film and just by nature it doesn't come across the fun footage. So I guess may because of the way that I experienced films. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Found footage would never, hardly ever. We might get to that later. Hardly about worked for me as well as a traditionally my film. That makes complete sense. And know we've been on to this topic a little bit already, but I would love to hear a little bit more about their overall relationship with found foot there is there is a sub founder that you tend to get excited about and seek out or, for instance, all do you actively avoid found footage films or, as I know, you're a horror fan in particular, like you still see quite a lot of them. Like, if you find out that the film is found footage, do you get excited disappointed, and would it make you more likely or less likely to see it? Yeah, if if I discovered that our horror film is found footage, it usually knocks it down a few rounds on my watch list, depending on how much a claim it's getting, I wouldn't roll out seeing it because, yeah, obviously quite an a good horror fan, so I have watched, you know, a large number of found footage films over the years. But if it's just like some cheap or whatever or some random film that's popping up on two or popping up and shut up and I check on letter box and I found out it's a found footage film, you know, unless I really know the director I've heard some really good things about it, it's going to go and sleep to the back of my watch q because I just know that found footage does so little for me in general, and they're really great found fotage for me are the exception, not the rules. So yeah, it does, Kno, go down a little bit. But you know, if it gets enough acclaim, if I trust the director enough, I'm not going to rule out seeing a found footage film altogether. Honestly, I actually kind of side with Saul to an extent on this, just because I am aware that there are a lot of terrible found footage movies. So if I do notice that a movie is found footage, I tend to start getting a little wary of it. I don't necessarily have quite as adverse a reaction as saul does, but you know, I definitely don't go in with beated earth super jazzed about it unless it is something that I do trust the filmmakers behind it, you know, have enjoyed what they've made before, or if it's, you know, a particularly interesting but if I see that it's campers lost in the woods and something is just beyond their realm of vision, I start getting very, very nervous about it. At the time, I guess it's the exact opposite for you. To be truthful, I don't actually seek out found footage films as much as I used to. I think there was a period of time between maybe the Blair witch project and paranormal activity where there was a level of popularity and found footage that enabled you to keep on top of the new found footage films that were being released, because there winds so many of them. But there seemed to be a boom after the success of paranormal activity. So in that Phase I was a teenage here and I was very excited by the prospect of...

...found footage horror film because my most terrifying cinematic well one of my most terrifying cinematic experiences was my first viewing of the Blair witch project as a preteen, and that actually put me off horror for a little while thanks to my overactive imagination. But once I got past that stage, my love for horror blossomed and I think it acted like a gateway film to the horror Genre for myself and many people of my age. So I had almost an inbuilt love for found footage from the very start. That has kind of diminished over the years because there's just been so many found footage films released and, has been mentioned, it's kind of got to a point where it's hard to sift through them all to find the good ones, and I tend to just seek out the ones that received critical acclaim rather than just watching any found footage film I can get my hands on these days. That makes comply sense and on my part I'll actually be remarkably neutral in general, learning that the film is fun footage or not doesn't really have an impact on me either way, though that might be helped by the fact that, unlike my three other co hosts today, I am not the biggest horror fan, or at least not anymore. In fact, my favorite foum footage film is probably quite quite ironic. It's most likely the first every fum footage film, and there was the connection by Shirley Clark from nineties sixty two, which is about narcotics and drug addicts and about this documentary group filming these drug addicts. It's not shaking camps because it's the ninete sixties and they have they have an actual cameraman there with a bit the massive camera, which gives the very different feeling, though even there some of the tropes, such as oh now you're in it, or keep filming, keep filming, a lot of those tropes were born already there. But this list into the next question, and you guys have already tied this in all ready, which is that there was this period when there was just this enormous boom coming from Blair witch project. And I guess we can assume some of these the reasons why it suddenly started becoming more popular in the very late or actually in the serioes, because it's really the boom never started in the nineties. It was platter which project kicked it off. But why did it take so long? Why was it that the first sound footage film is from nineteen sixty two. There are a few films with at least some found footage elements in them later, but the boom was in the two thousands. So why is that? You know, I think part of it maybe just due to the overall hesitance to embrace a documentary style film by Major Studios. Because, to your point, there were found footage movies that were kind of peppered around. You know, you have Cannibal Hall cost. That was probably one of the most well known ones and is often cited as the first one, even though I've also seen the connection and noticed that. Why why is nobody referring to this movie? It came out two decades before Cannibal Holocaust. But you know, you have some a few others. You have that alien abduction film, the McPherson tape. You have the last broadcast coming out just a year before Blair witch. But I think with Blair witch it's just hit this particular zeitgeist moment where people were building off that theatrical experience it. And I think with Blair witch the marketing of it was a big part of it because they didn't market it as a real found footage and you know, to my earlier point, I think people were fascinated by that complicitcy. There are a large contingent of people that want to believe in the supernatural and they're deeply fascinated by things like that. And then found footage movies in general, I think, do play well in a theater. I know many people, including myself, who have gone to a theater and senior film footage movie, really enjoyed it and then watched it later at home and was completely unimpressed. Because I think people do feed off that experience and I think getting found footage films in a theater really helped elevate their appeals. So the only thing I think I'd add to that is that Blair, which project, was a massive box office success and obviously it was made on a very minister budget. So I think a lot of filmmakers in the years of media afterwards realized we can actually make films really, really cheaply and they can perform really, really well at the box office, which obviously didn't quite happen, with a few exceptions, I guess, paranormal activity clover field and if you others aside, that didn't necessarily happen. But I think there was inspiration there and I think it was a bandwagon that, you know, a lot of filmmakers were producers jumped on because it looked like a great they make the opportunity make these films really cheap, don't...

...have to be high quality and they may may not really sell at the box office. You might get really, really great off its sound of it. I mean there have been some creative ones, but you know, I think the height of creativity with our found footage horror, started accountable Holocaust and ended at cannable Holocaust. I was going to add one extra thing to that, which is not as greedy as just going on money, but that I do think that they're completely right. The main reason why there was this boom is the success of the Blair witch project and the fact that you really could make films that cheaply and have still had to performed well. That said, I think that there is a different element there too, which is the fact that digital cameras became more and more available. Um It was more common for people to film their own lives and their experiences, making these films more believable or making these kinds of stories more believable. I think of all touched really well on the main points of why I found footage became popular when it did, and one thing to mention is also just the improvements in technology and the decreasing sizes of cameras, as well making it more feasible and more accessible for amateur filmmakers to get involved on the scene, as well as obviously big studios pushing films with marketing, after seeing the success of the buyer witch project. And I also wanted to bring in an additional voice to today's podcast because there was another member of the hat check movies forum who wanted to be involved in the podcast but couldn't join us today, and they provided some responses to the topics that we were going to discuss. So I'm speaking on behalf of SINT EPOLIS and they say that found footage took a while to become popular, probably because of studio intervention. They mentioned films such as David Holzman's diary, the connection and punishment part that we're all rather independent productions, and then when video recorders became more of a household thing in the eighties and nineties, more people discovered the potential that found footage had for cinema and of course they mentioned that the success of Blair witch projects played a huge role too, and they also mentioned that ghosts slash monster hunting TV shows probably served as a source of inspiration as well, which is interesting to think about, because he had the shows like most haunted, etcetera, that kind of put people into that notion of enjoying found footage and an aspect for seeking out ghosts and the supernatural and trying to put a realistic spin on the supernatural. That's a really interesting point there. I think this actually times into one of those things that are most interesting about favood, because footage is not just about the technique. It's not just the fact that it implements the documentary technique. Extension be the Watkins films like Punishment Park, which are kind of folks documentaries, which are not mockumentaries. They are quite serious or often based in Sci fi world, sometimes based directly in the past, and you have these documentary elements used to tell stories. But the one thing that kind of separates them from from footage is that there is not that little text in the beginning saying that this film material or the file was sent to someone or discovered somewhere, and this idea that everything somehow went wrong, which is what what kind of this subgenre has been doing from that first little note that the director has appeared in the nine six two version of the connection, or this idea that these people are still being looked for in the blarrish project, this idea that this footage is actually found somewhere that the creators are no longer around, and that's very interesting element to have brought into such a wide ranging sub genres. So how important do you think that the idea that this footage was found actually is for found footage? Is there an important difference between your traditional fund footage film and, say, punishment part I think that the found footage conceit itself creates a kind of impression going into it. You know something terrible has happened because the footage has been found. It wasn't given. Because of that, it does create this certain kind of expectation, whereas with punishment park, while it does have a documentary conceit, you don't really necessarily know where it's going, and that applies to most of the films I've seen from Peter Watkins too. I do think it creates an expectation calling it found footage. And having said that, I have seen some found footage that don't necessarily follow that same pattern of display a message saying this footage was found somewhere. Sometimes they're the private memoirs of someone recording it like a serial killer. They don't always necessarily have that conceive but they're still lumped in...

...the same genre because they are that first person camera view within a horror thriller context. If any found footage horror film begins with the title cards saying something to the effect to these people disappeared and this footage was found. If I say that, I think in my mind spoiler alert because it sort of clues me in a bit too much that things are going to end well for the characters and I guess maybe there's a bit of a mystery and that in twos to why it exactly it happened. For me it gives away too much information. So, and I'm watching I found footage from will prefer it to not start with any introduction like that. I think anything like that just sets in concrete a little bit too much where things are going, which to me makes it a lot less interesting to view. Isn't all of Foun footage kind of a spoiler? done as an entire stub genre in itself? I think any purporting to actually be found footage is. Yeah, but, like I said, there are quite a few that don't have that title Card Saul I was talking about, where you don't know necessarily where it's going. But again, I do think the appeal of of found footage isn't necessarily what's going to happen, it's how is it going to happen? Generally, if you're watching a horror movie, you know bad things are going to happen by the very nature of it being a horror movie, whether a found footage or otherwise. So it's it's less about, oh, is something bad going to happen and it's more about when is something bad going to happen? What exactly bad is going to happen? Who is it going to happen to? That I don't necessarily see is as big of a problem with found footage the title card. If anything, it goes into the the idea of increasing suspense for the audience, again making them feel more complicit that they're watching something illicit that they shouldn't be private filming of someone's last moments. You make it sound like we're discovering the sixth tape with found footage. So, yes, I know that's not quite what you're getting at. Yeah, I guess he depends how you approach it. I mean I think it's no coincidence that quite a few there are quite a few film footage movies that are set up like snuff films, like those August underground ones the video drme show in video drme. I couldn't make it through a single August underground film. I've tried, but I just found them to bleak. I can't find any teaming features in them. But going back to what you were saying burn about the found footage, and I agree it's not necessarily about the destination, because we kind of all know that the last shot of a found footage film usually is going to be someone to drop the camera on the floor and it fades out. We know what's going to happen, but it's it's about the journey. We have no idea of what's going to happen along the way and because it's framed from the perspective of someone filming it adds to the realism and this idea that you know you're watching real life and fold in front of your eyes. So when these things happen that are out of the ordinary to me, that just makes the film shine. It really brings something new to experience. So we're talking about things that the farm footage brings of experience. What exactly is the effect, then, of farm footage within horror? All does palm footage add to the feeling of horror? And read Snapolis has an interesting take on this because they say that found footage horror can be very effective when done right, because it makes the horror more tangible by putting the viewer right into the action along with the characters. And while sint Epolis knows that not of it's real, there's always this what if thought in the back of their head and I can totally get that, because the best found footage films can convince you that you're watching real footage. Maybe not everyone, because I know that isn't something that that happens for soul, but a lot of people who watch found footage films can find them convincing. And talked about Blair witch and how people believe that it was real footage when it was released and there's some real power behind that, you know, and it's a it's a strong method of storytelling that has successfully convinced people in the past. Whether it can continue to do that, I don't know anymore due to everyone's exposure to the sub genre, but it's surely an interesting thing to think about. I do think the few that have managed to pull off that believability aspect of actually tricking people into thinking they're real, going all the way back to Orson Welles and the war of the world's radio program where it's sent...

...people into a panic after it was broadcast. I think that some of my favorite found footage movies, or fake documentary, you know, that general subgenre, have that aspect to it where it really does feel real. I'm a huge fan of Ghost Watch, the UK production that was broadcast on TV as if it were a real news broadcast and it apparently freaked out a lot of people that thought it was an actual, real, supernatural occurrence happening in front of them live, and that kind of thing I find very fascinating. So I'm obviously coming from the point of view that I don't think found footage actually does anything to make a film scarier because I guess I'm always just hyper conscious that what I'm viewing is footage or something that's been purposely constructed. Where found footage works for me, and a horror saids is when it actually has something to say about the characters. So if you think back to incandible Holocaust and it's all about how the characters are so full of themselves by disrespecting and its treating animals and you're mistreating the local people and it all comes back to get them. So that for me works, and like the sort of like gall and actually filming it. And then you get something like dary of the dead from George Romero, which I actually think he is possibly the best sequel. It's probably bit of a controversial opinion, alongside dave the dead, the best sequel for me in that franchise, because it's about the characters filming the experience of the zombies and like they're so obsessed with filming it and uploading it that they actually forget about their own safety. So it's not so much that I think it's real when I'm watching called satire on how obsessed people are with technology, that there would be subsessed with filming and putting online that will actually forget to watch up for the zombies themselves. By the way, I don't know where to fit this in, but I just want to say that the soundtrack to Cannibal Holocaust is a major earworm. I love it. It's been a while since I've seen kind of a Holocaust, so I can't really call a soundtrack that well, but I'll definitely check it out after this recording session so I can find out what's so great about it. That sounds good. It's this really pleasant melody that has the slight distortion in it, like there's something just not quite right about it, and it just seems very perfect for the movie. So fum footage even brought us some good soundtrack recommendation. So that's the excellent to hear. But expanding on from what fum footage can or cannot do to a horror movie, I think we've talked a lot about it. We have the idea that you're watching someone actually died, that there's some kind of illicit footage involved, that there is some kind of additional realism in it, that someone is filming, Etcetera. There are obviously some farm footage films not many, but some that are outside of the horror genre. Have you guys seen any of the films that are not actually poorer and the how do you think they work? I've seen quite a lot of the found footage films, which aren't horror. I had an obsession with going back and looking at where found footage films evolved, where they came from and the earliest found footage works, and one that I discovered was called eighty four Charlie MOPPIC, which is a war film from the eighties and it works really well. I suppose it's shares some of the themes that you would share with a horror because there's a lot of attention people going into an unknown situation and not sure what they're going to be encountering along the way, and one of the soldiers is filming the whole mission. It's about group soldiers in Vietnam and it's nothing incredible, but it's quite impressive what they did for the time and could be considered groundbreaking in some ways of what they pulled off at the time. I've also seen a lot of science fiction found footage film. Some of the best would be monopolis and chronicle, and I think it's just interesting to see found footage that doesn't rely too much on horror and maybe it's more about world building and strange occurrences, more fantastical elements, because a lot of the effects that are used in these science fiction found footage films actually worked the advantage because people are filming on camera, there's that opportunity to kind of bring blurring and stuff. So it's where the lower production qualities actually can be used as a strength to the design of the film. Will also just add that Sannapolis sent me some information...

...about this as well and added that without the supernatural elements, the realism factor has the potential to be even higher. And it's also good to make the view uncomfortable when up close with the characters. And some examples of these films which do well that this would be exhibit a and the Deities and September tapes. Now, I've only seen the deities and exhibit A, but I would agree that they both make the viewer uncomfortable. First off, I do want to actually second what Thomas said about a four cm o. That is an excellent war film and yeah, it's actually one of my all time favorites and yeah, I tend to forget that it's found footage and discussion them because of course it's found footage war rather than found footage horror. But yeah, it's an excellent film and it's one where the filming of it actually does make sense rather than it being your average running the mill horror film where the character keeps on recording just because they're just obsessed with recording. So it actually works really well. I'll highly recommend eighty four C mo pick for anybody who hasn't seen it. What I've done at the moment. Chris has actually given me a link to search for films that I found footage that IMDB and I sort of it by my rating and got gone down. When said most of them are horror, but there are some great non horror ones in there, and Tom mentioned the dirties, and the dirties for me was an okay film. I mean the whole like obsession with filmmaking was interesting, the two kids in there, but what I really like is actually their follow up films. So they made a film called Operation Avalanche about two filmmakers who discover and that's a conspiracy to hoax the moon landing and they tumble on Stanley Kubrick filming it. It's like an excellent conspiracy film and the found footage they're sort of used to propel their conspiracy alament Tubet, rather than to make it like a horror film. Looking through some of the other films that have given high schools so that a found footage, some of them I didn't really counterspound footage because they're more like screen recording ones that they put searching in there, the film with John Chow, but I think that's a different sub genre altogether. A film that's come up also in my search is a film called the road movie. I guess it is actually technically real found footage because it's actually created by using Dash Cam footage from various vehicles in Belarus and they've been spliced together to sort of show some of the crazy behavior on the road. So I don't know how much that counts. has found footage because it's actually real footage is being put together because it's a real documentary, not nothing's been staged in there. But that's an awesome film that, you know, would recommend checking out, even if it's not technically found footage. Otherwise, scrolling down the only other non horror found footage that I've given higher than a seven out of ten. Too, is adapted, which is a really awesome film which Brian Deploruma did about fifteen years ago about soldiers some things that they should and shouldn't be doing. But you know, other than that, scrolling down there and one of them are horror ones there, but you know, tons and tons and tons of film footage, films. Okay, it says over here that I've raided forty eight films that have got found footage tags on IMDB, and yet there's only less than half of them that I've really given, you know, a really strong score too. Not to bad, actually. Yeah, it actually doesn't. I think some of them are missing the tag because I'm looking through them and that's not as man because I've seen some really crappy ones on to being shutter and other streaming services. So I don't think these IMDB tags as a proper representation. If you're in about fifty, that's a much better ratio than I would be on UN found footage. Yeah, I don't. I don't think it's accurate or probably should have previewed that before according that second end of watches a pretty decent one as well where it's cop body Cam Jack Jillenhall. I haven't seen that actually, but no, we've got some decent reviews. It is. It's a really good film, a like kind of watch, very good because they use the body comps. There's multiple cameras that they flipped between and cameras in the car and everything. So it is yeah, it's quite a good, too good film. I just found a really terrible non horror do you don't want to class about? Don't think it's horr non horror. Found footage one in the IMDB list. percent. So it's a trash humpers by harmony corren. Yeah, I don't know, Brans never that's very good. Pathetic film. For me's found footage at its worst. I kind of bucket trash humpers with some of like Andy Warhol's films, where it's really just a film made as a troll. If you watch it then you have fallen for for his joke. I've seen that Bey on some publists. Some places like there are people who actually love trash Humpers, for the troll worked for...

...like. I don't know, three percent of the people watching it, maybe one percent not going to estimate it, but it worked for somebody. I mean empire seems to end up on people's list. Could Empire be classified as well? That's just a documentary, I guess. Yeah, it wasn't necessarily found, but I love what all mentioned earlier about this film. That is real fun footage of cars ash camps, and that actually made me spot another film on this list from IMDB, which is Dawson city frozen time, which is also actually real fun footage where they literally found film reels frozen in the river from the silent era, but they were discovered frozen in this river and recut to kind of tell the story of the city. It's not it doesn't have anything to do with fun footage, but the tag is there on IMDB and the footage is literally found. So that's a nice little anecdote for you. I wanted to bring up two films that were quite good, both of them from the very same year, actually three years after very, which project so kind of in the early days of the boom, back before it was fully horrible, aligned and they're quite interesting. One of them times in with I want to talk about with Fressian avalanche earlier in terms of covering conspiracies and its interview with the assassin, which dives into John F Kennedy assassination and this idea that there was a second shooter and that the film is essentially an interview or a collection of interviews with the shooter, where the documentary maker is following the shooter around, and it fits perfectly into the found footage story ties veria well into the feeling of suspense and Paranoia, Etcetera, and it's done thoroughly well. A lot of people could see that movie and gnually believe it as well. And the Antainer here is that it really does depend so much on this almost really just buying stories this person is telling us, working in the fact that you know, the filmmaker is also suspicious of whether or not it's true that he is the assassin. So that works on many levels. And the second one is quite a lot darker and it is zero day, which I think has something in common with the dirty starch. I haven't seen. This is essentially a school shooter film. It's made three years after Columbine massacre and it just feels very, very real. You have these two teenagers who are filming themselves, their outcasts they're not happy. There are there are issues and you slowly see it escalate over the course of their own footage, ending with not their footage but security camera footage. It's very bleak, very dark. It's very welcome together. It's a small production, but that's a thoroughly intense film and it's one of those times where, because of the realism there, because you can kind of believe this story developing front, the few that found footage added to a non horror movie really the the trick interview the assassin kind of reminded me of invites dog in this context. It is probably one of the most well known folk documentary films outside of the straight horror genre and it's a pretty compelling movie. Oh yeah, that's actually if it's that qualifies fully as fund footage. Yeah, I think it does qualified fully that. That would probably be my favorite fum footage film as well. Actually, that's so darkly Hilarious, bizarre and that it really works. And I think we've been talking a lot about what really works with found footage and one of the questions I mentioned in my intervals whether or not there is something that only found footage can do, or at least something it's quite uniquely equipped to do. Would you say that something would be amiss in cinema if found footage never really existed? Is there something special that found footage brings to cinema, be it horror or other gendres, that it would be quite sad if we never got the experience? Unlike to just say no and then past the next person. But you know, like I said, there have been some good ones over the years, very few by percentage, but obviously a big fan of kind of Holocaust. I think that's an excellent film. We mentioned a four Charlie mopit diary of the Dad. There have been some good ones over the years, but I think there's a lot of them where, you know, it's just capitalizing on the successive player which are not really doing anything particularly interesting with the technique. One of my favorite found footage films is wreck that we spoke about at some length when we did a episode about Spanish horror, and this is just an incredible exercise intention. When a news reporter goes into a apartment block due to an instant that happens there and gets sealed within the building and there's an outbreak in there. It's just an excellent film. If we didn't...

...have found footage we wouldn't have that film and that would be very sad indeed. The last twenty minutes where there's a sequence which is almost entirely in the dark, just flashes from their camera and glimpses from a bit of light coming in here and again. It's so scary. The first time I saw it it just stopped me in my tracks. My heart was beating so fast. And there's many of the films that have made a big impression on me from the found footage genre, not as much as wreck but films that deserve and mentioned. I don't know whether we'll get time to discuss them all, so it feels like a good time to drop some now. But films like afflicted, it's a great vampire one, troll hunter some excellent special effects in there, and clear a field as well. That's another great one. And the VHS series have all been very interesting cinematic experiences for me and if we didn't have found footage we wouldn't have had them. So I'm glad that found footage became a thing. That's say haven segment of VHS two is one of my absolute favorite bound footage moments just because it is so absolutely insane, and that's kind of going into something that I think found footage, when done well, does better than a lot of horror films are really films in general, and creating this visceral personal experience, putting you in the shoes of the people in the film experiencing something very intense that you wouldn't normally go through. Yeah, and I think that's definitely one of those things that it would be very sad to be without. And just going back to how found footage actually constructed and how they worked and the kind of cinematic language they use. I think it would be very, very sad if we didn't have this popular genre playing around with limitations this way, because limitations are always really, really interesting when creating. People do something on a low budget it or do something where they're forced to do it a specific way, then you do come up with new things. I think that the from flatter showed a way to make very cheap and effective horror films in a way that we're not necessarily been possible without it. I think the way that they incorporate glitches as a way to create suspense. That is something that we've seen in cinema, you know, be a cinema verity or certain types of documentaries or certain types of art house films, but it's not something we've seen in a big, big genres like this, and it's quite nice to just have that worked in there and, going back to the realism as well, having that new angle of where filming this, you are engaging with something that has been filmed. I know this is something that Sol reacts to negatively, but at least to me this is something new and slightly different in films, or slightly different from traditional cinema, if it will. I think that anything that differs that much from what we talked about earlier as classic cinema is exciting and interesting and, as Tom mentioned earlier, to right the is off good thing. For that. I'm very happy that Foun footage came to be and that it had its moment, even though it's clearly frustrated some people. Just to be clear, I am pro variety and I do like buite a lot of experimental films. You know, I've been pushing for a long time to have a Michael Snow podcast, so I'm not against experimentation as such or pushing the envelope or going against classic Hollywood film. But I guess I just feel a lot of Foun footage. It doesn't really serve much purpose beyond just the premise of being different itself. You know, you could look at wavelength. There's being a kind of found footage. Okay, fine, I wouldn't disagree with that. So I guess maybe that's the greatest found footage film ever made. Then, yeah, maybe it is. I mean that's all of those films I'll only rematch if we do that Michael Snow episode, because the first time I saw it I just did not care for a way late. I don't think I have a desired a guest on that one. Well, yeah, you're missing out, guys. It's like the greatest murder mystery film ever made. You know, it's all about an unsolved murder and yeah, we'll get into the light if we ever do a podcast on it. But you know, it might well be the best plann footage film ever made. That's that's a really interesting way of selling it. That maybe some people who actually see wave length now that they wouldn't otherwise well done solved. That would be a great line on a DVD coverbox there declared by the person who hates the phone footage what, you know what, mark in line. That would be very so we talked about all the things that kind of led into fun footage having its rise, the changing technology, at the popularity of Blair witch, the ability to produce sheep films that could do very...

...well at the box office. But obviously the fun footage moment is essentially over. There's not really been any major films over the last five, sixty, seventy years. Like this is a phenomenon that really burst out in the serials and lasted into the early to mid tents. It got to the point that even started to see fun footage TV shows like the river, but then it just slowly quieted down that. There's still some fun footage films dropped, but the trend has clearly declined. Looking over the films based on, you know, the number of volts, for instanceell and I MDB, essentially everything on top is from two thousand and fifteen or earlier. So what do you think it was that led to the decline of this trend? I think it's purely just the glood of terrible, cheap, badly made directed video ones that flooded the market and just burned people out on it, and then you have things like paranormal activity getting a number of seque wars. I think it may be up to seven or eight of them at this point that I think people just got sick of it. Definitely have to agree with Ben their complete oversaturation of the market. Anyone could pick up camera make a cheap fan footage film and there's just too many of them now and most are horrendous. It also ties into the cyclical nature of horror as well. The horror genre in tends to follow trends depend on what it's popular. You know, the eighties are kind of renowned for being a slasher area and it wouldn't be surprised if people look back on the noughties as the found footage era of horror. But it doesn't mean that the genres go away. There's still people who release interesting fan footage films, but they're few and far between. But the rise of TIKTOK recently there was an increasing popularity of the film Megan is missing, because it was touted as this horrific film and it was shared as an online challenge for people to watch it. And Post their actions and it's interesting that people can revisit these films and reappraise them from it a new perspective when they're brought to light through social media. Asking twenty minutes of digging exactly, yeah, I can't say I'm the biggest fan of Megan is missing. I get what it's trained to do and I think it did what it was doing fairly well. That doesn't make it a pleasant experience. I liked Megan is missing. I wouldn't say I loved it or whatever, but I didn't think it was pretty good, mainly in its first two thirds, which really for me, evoked unfriended, which for me is one of those ultimate horror films of all time. I really love on screen horror. I don't think there's enough films that I like that these days and I think that the first two thirds of the film, which was a lot about that, were great and I think from memory like towards the end that sort of picked out and became less about video cause and everything and more about what happened to her question. Actually Thoughtso, and authors on MTB that unfriended is tagged that's found footage and I haven't actually seen it yet, but does that fit? Than the unfriended, than that franchise qualified from footage. I don't think it really counts as firm footage. I mean what unfriended is? It's one continuous screen recording of a computer screen, and I noticed also in that list they also had searching and the John Show film, which takes the unfriended idea, but we actually see a whole bunch of different screens. Everything we see is on a screen. So for me that's different to found footage and I find a lot more dynamic because it's a lot about our relationship to the screen, so that when things happen on the screen on the computer and things like starts taking around or whatever, you're not quite sure the problem with your computer that you're watching the film on or whether it's a problem within the film itself. So it's sort of like blurs it a little bit for me, and you just love these screen films. That mean there's the two unfriended ones. They're searching. There was the film spree, which came out quite recently and I think it's a great untapped potential for horror films. There's also like a really great one with Elijah Wood called open windows about eight years ago. I had a ridiculous twist in it, but just the way everything was put together as a series of screens was very dynamic for me and I think it's very different from found flotage because it's not the sense that you're finding a suppotage that somebody shot or whatever, and this is what happened to them. It's more that you're actually inside their screen, inside of happing to them. So so for me, I guess it's on part with watching Casablanca and feeling that I'm in the same room with Ingrid Bergman and Humphrey Bio God bikewise. I actually thought that I'm on these characters devices when things happen on their devices. I love that. I just want to ask the question with it. Anyone has ever compared casablanket too infender before? I love that connection. FELF, I'm impressed the screen recording type films. I would say they're totally different than found footage. They're almost like a sub subgenre...

...of mockumentary or faux documentary, where what you're seeing is purported to be real and while it doesn't have the conceit of the title card at the beginning of this was found somewhere. It's still implying that you're experiencing something in real time, much like a found footage movie. I do tend to like those. You didn't mention it, but host is another recent one that's been getting a lot of buzz. Those actually go all the way back to the Collingswood story, which I think was the first webcam movie in the early two thousand's, which is not bad. The technology is definitely clunkier, but it's still pretty effective for what it's doing. I like the Collinswood story and it is the first found footage film to use computer screens, and I agree that it does feel clunky when you watch it back today, but at the time it was pretty creepy and we've checking out. If you've finally computer screen films but you haven't seen it yet, there is a nice new blue ray of it. I haven't actually seen that one yet, but I agree that host is a fantastic film. I've seen, I guess, most of them that were available to me and I don't think that one ever was, but I might inter check on important. The blue ray of it now probably the den's the earliest one. That springs to mind for me and yeah, I just thought, even though that one was not totally on screens, that to me was still really cool. And I guess for me it's different to found footage, but it probably depends on how you look at it. It's more so that I sort of feel that it's my own device when I'm watching a character on their device and it's totally on their device, where it's a bit different from me if I'm watching footage and we're getting a sense of this footage has been filmed by someone else. And well, there are recommendations to this. If you have this soundtrack of kind of a Holocaust and the new blue ray after colleagues wood story and moving on from that and are in the end of our episode here. So we talked a little bit about this new trend of the friended series, etcetera, kind of being an offshoot of found footage for a sub genre of fun footage. So do you think that we'll see some kind of resurrection of fund footage? Is this new trend of the infriended series, etcetera, some kind of continuation or example of that, or do you think that the subgenres will kind of stay more or less in the past, with just the occasional new film essentially making that the general audiences. I doubt there is going to be another massive explosion like there was the Blair witch project. That just seemed like a very particular moment in time. I mean, if you look historically at film, you don't really see that kind of thing repeated very much, regardless of the genre style of film. Yeah, I think that found footage has had its time in the spotlights, but I'd like to think that there's still filmmakers who are willing to and we'll still see the occasional strong found footage film coming through. There may even be a resurrection of the Sub Genre, maybe in twenty years time when it becomes retro when it's a nostalgia thing. Who knows, but I think it's probably unlikely that we're going to see becomes as popular as it was in the in the early noughties ever again. I would actually say that the trend or found footage hasn't died down. I mean, yes, there haven't been that many acclaimed ones released recently. However, just looking at the tons of horror films are available stream online, especially on to be I don't know if whatever reason it was, seemed to flock to to beat. They're just tons and tons and tons of our found footage films still being made today, I guess because primarily they are so cheap and then they are so easy to put together. The trenders died down. I don't think it actually ever will die down, just because it's just such an easy way get a film out there. Whether we see it big resurgence of great found footage films, I don't know. I think it is possible, but look, I don't think the trend has died down completely. So I guess I find it hard to ask the question the first place. I was were talking about in terms of general popularity and being shown that big multiplexess et cetera out the way they were back in their heyday. Understand what you're saying with that, although films aren't really being shown that much and more plexus these days, I mean especially since the pandemic. I mean that's changed the whole landscape. But you know, these days people preferring to stream stuff anyway, so I don't know, I don't know. Fair enough or as in a big netflix release. I know imdb is not the necessarily the most accurate guide. But looking at, you know, the films with the most votes, for instance, if that's an indicator, none of the top forty, essentially fifty, are from after two tough fifteen except searching, which we talked...

...about. Isn't really fun footage. Do you think the see big fun footage film sequents this clover field or the later witch project, etcetera, make those kinds of prompts again? Maybe you think of it in the context of would there be a found footage film that would hit the Zeitgeist, like something like squid game, for instance, where everyone is watching it, everyone is talking about it, everyone is tweeting about it. I think it would take a major filmmaker to do something interesting with it that would gain a lot of attention. If Wes Anderson made a foul and footage movie and released it on Netflix, isn't exclusive, that could probably be something that would get a lot of attention. I have no idea what the hell that would even look like. That seems like it would be crazy, I think, just the days of random you know. I mean essentially the people who made Blair witch project hadn't really done much of anything before. They had had a few small projects, but I think the days of that kind of film specifically blowing up huge like it did or like paranormal activity, I don't see that happening again. I can probably agree with that in those terms, that I don't really see any found footage films on the horizon. That would be as big as, I guess, squid game, to use that example where everybody's talking about. I guess sort of need to be something really innovative we need to do with it, because found footage has just been completely exhausted over the last twenty years. I think all the possibilities of it have been exhausted. And if it's evolved into screen recording films, you know that can only be a good thing. But yeah, the traditional found footage, I think it pretty much has been done to death. So it might happen. I think it is possible. You know that there could be someone who comes along it does something very innovative with it, but it does seem less and less likely, I guess, the more sat surided the market becomes and the more that everybody taps out all the potential of it. All need to really be something quite different. But you're already getting my mind thinking about harding wound their which approachect now, and make a bit of money. But you have to do something very different one. But it sounds like you have a lot of potential by which projects on your hands anyway solved from the filmmakers in your classes. So maybe need to tap into their potential. Maybe they are doing something right. possibly. Well, I'm sure if I put some of their films on twobic or whatever, they're probably better on something on horror and stuffed skinting showed out from there anyway. That's fair enough. So all, maybe there would be a fun footage film about these students just frustrating their teachers with found footage, because have to see how that ends and have like a one cut of the dead metal commentary about it. So yeah, either salt kills them or they kill him or something entirely different happens. But I can see that going in some really interesting directions. But so just to wrap everything up there and and on the final question, do you all of you agree with all that fum footage has essentially tapped all of its potentially, or is there something or do they think there still is potential to do something very different? Or there some new context you would like to see found footage in then, and if so, what or how? Now I'm thinking I really want to see wes Anderson do a found footage movie. Um. But seriously, I do think it's possible to think outside the box with found footage. There are a few different ways of doing it. There's one film that I'm a big fan of called I'm not even sure how to say it out loud, but it's S N S N M man, S S N man, Oh, maybe it is. Yes then, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense now that I see it out loud. Okay, yeah, so Sandman, which purports itself to be a documentary with a found footage film embedded within it, but presented in the real world using real directors, real actors, the directors playing himself. So it adds this other kind of met a layer on top of it that I think, makes it pretty effective. I also think blending found footage concepts with regular film concepts still has a lot of potential. I've seen several movies that do that well. One recent one that I saw that I thought pulled off a pretty unique premise in the found footage realm would be the deep house from Bustillo and Mari, the guys that did inside and levied. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that was right. My French is terrible, but you know that one is essentially an underwater haunted house film where large chunks of it are done using you know, first person camera found footage type of conceit, but it also cuts and has more Third Person Omniscient view, and I think that one works really well and has a really nice sense of atmosphere. It's also one of the best looking found footage movies. I think the cinematography and it's very good, which is something you rarely ever here's booken of with film footage.

I do think there's still potential there. Just needs the right person to come along. I do think found footage does have potential. Like I said before, there are a few scattered good examples of ones where I think as being used well. But I think the key to making good film footage film is to make it about the characters and, I guess, their obsession with recording and having that playing a part of it rather than just being recording for the sake of it. So how do you give the examples of Darry the dead and Cannibal Holocaust, and I think those are just great examples because it's sort of like the characters get so caught up in the filming that they don't really realize other things are happening. So I think from that point of view it could sort of work. I mean I'm just thinking about things like even stream four, you have a character is trying to record the whole of his high school experience by having the camera on his head and recording every moment. I think that's got pretend. Sure there's some really funny moments in the screen for that actually worked because he's so obsessed with recording everything that does can realize everything that's happening around so I think it's got a bit of potential. But I think just using found footage by itself, without trying to tap into the obsessive noture that people have with recording, I think would just be a little bit redundant. I think there's also different types of cameras and ways of observing things that could be interesting. So I haven't seen the end of watch and when you talked about that that I think that would be really exciting too, because it's based on body camps, so it's something that is very realistic and using surveillance cameras, which has been used in found footage before, or other types of angles, all the reasons for filming, if you will, could bring something new into the genre. I mean I remember when we've had our space exploration episodes, we talked about Europena report, which is a poule footage film set in space and it's kind of these cameras from it in the spaceship. That worked really well too, when we talked at that point about how interesting it would be to see some more films that are set in that kind of context. And do you think that there could be new things just in terms of changing like the basis of the fun footage or there's a time of how long ago the fun footage this it would be interesting to see. We talked about the renaissance in twenty years. Maybe the fun footage would then be from twenty thirty years in the past, for instance, adding some essentially period elements to it. That could also be exciting. So I would like to see what a renaissance could be. Obviously we have seen slasher renaissances, so we could see some found footage renaissances or just like we saw, for instance, with the artists, in terms of silent film, like some kind of big film that kind of just summarizes or brings up the found footage gendre and as a lot of us and said. Now, yeah, now, now, I just can't help but I really want to see that, the West Anderson Sound footage film. I was just gonna say that when Addison found foot ship that happens, that would be absolutely like doing my head and or whatever, because it's films are too symmetrical as it is. So I can't imagine I can play some metrical found footage film. That would be totally insane. Yeah, exactly, that's what I'm thinking to like, how would that work? It would have to be like maybe it would really be what you talked about. So like that character that's so obsessed with filming, but maybe it's as a photographer or someone with OCD or something like that. It just really needs to capture the perfect angles. I love this idea. Let's just hop that wes Anderson is an avid listener of talking images and you know I was talking about it, gives him the inspiration that he needs to make the reality and keeping my fingers crossed for that one. Yeah, absolutely. If anyone listening knows wether Anderson or those someone who knows wes Anderson message from about it, emails and Letters. Let's just get this moving and let's get West Anderson into directors share for a found footage film. It might just be the development his career has been waiting for. He write animation already. He could succeed in found footage as well. And on that note and on that call to action, thank you so much for listening and join us again soon. You have been listening to talking images, the official podcast of I C M Forum Dot Com.

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