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Episode 46 · 7 months ago

Is Dune the Future of Big Budget Blockbusters? (+ Obligatory Lynch Comparisons)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Get ready to jump more than 8,000 years into the future as Matthieu, Tom and Chris dive into one of 2021s most acclaimed blockbusters: Dune! 

Join us as we marvel at the set design, cringe at a few of the jokes and discuss what worked, what didn't and why. 

We will also explore Denis Villeneuve's rise as a sci-fi and blockbuster director, what his cold and meticulous style bring to blockbusters and whether or not Dune: Part II will deliver.

Oh, and yeah, as you might expect we can not stop ourselves from the obligatory comparisons to David Lynch's 1984 version. Will we stand tall and declare it as better? Listen in and find out!

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back there everyone. I'm Chris and in today's episode, Mature Thom and I will jump more than Eightzero years into the future to discuss one of two thousand and twenty one's hottest and most acclaimed blockbusters, the n even news Dune will explore the intrigues of this galaxy that could be far, far away, break down the futuristic vision, the characters and the casting, the plot and, of course, the direction and the visuals, because if there's one thing you cannot take away from this film, it's the fact that it's absolutely stunning. And don't worry, there won't be any spoilers until the very end. They don't even be a clear spoiler warning before that point. So if you're one of the few people yet to see it, don't worry, we've got you back. They can lean back and enjoy as we get to the bottom of how rediculous or early accurate it should be that bag paps are gave new only the true musical instrument of war in the future. We will also answer the pressing question is this what a blockbuster should be? And is there again new in future for blockbusters with artistic visions and displaying far less respect, will will throw in a pooling new section that I like to call the pop factor. We will score just how holp be or not we tink. Really News Dude actually is. Oh and yes, obligatory comparisons to lunches version are included. But before we get to any of that, let me bring my co hosts into the conversation, and perhaps will be good to start with a bit of a temperature check so that both you and I know where the coming from. So, Tom let's start with you. What did you think of Really News Dune? Do you have a scathing online review? I absolutely loved June is is so far my favorite film of the year that I've seen out of forty nine films. It takes all of my boxes. It's just this beautiful, grands sci fi with an Apache scale and it delivered. So yeah, I'm a very happy when you with to the here we have at least one strong defender of doing here. But what about the Humet you? I know that played runner two thousand and forty nine was actually your favorite film of two thousand and nineteen. Did do live up to your hopes when, in some ways June was impressive, but I wasn't entirely convinced, and by them. That I think, really placed like a part one and as such it is difficult to even judge it without pout to it's to me it did not quite feel like a like a whore is what I would say. So impresive in some ways but not didn't. Did Not quite live up to two expectations, but which I saw your question. Yeah, suppose that that kind of the supportment is bit built in and I feel that's literally called part one. So feeling it's not even like a standalone film in a franchise with Obeligatory sequal tie ends. It's just getting newly part one of a story. Rich is a very interesting choice, let's say. On my part, I am more inclined to agree with the Thom. I think it's absolutely donning. Like I mentioned in my Intro, I take that it's just beautifully dumb. It's an intricate world that's so well built it's delicious to look at. At adds. Many of the performances were great. I think the atmosphere is strong, but I think it does run an issue of taking some of its elements a bit too seriously and including some, shall we say, hope p elements or some dialog etc. That's just delivered a bit oddly and didn't work as well for me. But over all a great fielm and in terms of Pulpin as, I'll get more into that in the later segment. But but to expand on your pots are a little bit and they're perhaps they can start with a bit off positivity. What stood all do the most that they did anything just blow you away in this film. A lot of the special effects, which really well for me. I watch the film on an Imax screen and it was just so...

...immersive, the whole sound design and the the set design and the visuals. They were just breath taken. It genuinely transports you to another world and we don't often get that on this sense of scale with a blockbuster by such a talented director with an incredible vision. I mean most of his previous films our favorites of mine and I just thought it was it was incredible. It makes a complex story seem relatively straightforward and accessible. I must add a disclaimer here that I haven't actually read any of the novels. I did try to read June when I was a teenager, but I didn't stick with it. But watching this film has made me want to return to the novel because I'm very excited to spend a lot more time in this world, if possible. Yeah, reading that Disclaimer, I think I have this also say that I have not read the the novel. What about the image? Well, I have read the original novel. I haven't read the sequels, but it's only the original novel that is really relevant here, and I think that kind of played a role maybe in my reaction. In terms of the visuals and the said designed the estatics in general, I think I've come to expect what we got essentially from the n even nerve, even though this is on a much bigger scale than what he did in arrival and in the done of two thousand and forty nine. I think maybe I had a muted reaction, even though it's I mean it's undeniable that this is a grand epic spectacle with yeah, it definitely has that spectacle aspect to it and I think it succeeds in that way. But I don't know why. I just wasn't quite blown over, and I think part of it is that familiarity with the nerve and also with the books, because I think there are there's a lot of joy in discovery with the world like June white, which has all of these various elements that you get to see, and I think maybe it's not the same when it's like, Oh, yeah, I know this, it's from the books. So, like there were from the designed ements that I love, like the shields, the way the way he does the shields, the only factors that doesn't not like. But it was more recognition than being blowing away, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does, especially if it just seeing the plot points being checked off point by point. I can see why it would be as exciting for you. I can also suppose added that yes, this is the stat I will come to expect from with a new and it's not a criticism. Obviously be enough. Can do anything about the fact that he's adapting an existing work and just kind of trying to understand why, why I didn't love this as much as as I would have liked. The moost one thing that it could go for any offeringly news films, and I'm a going to ask more about him as a hi Fi director, blockbuster director or later, but he's a bit of a cold and calculated director with which can work really, really well. But he's really just telling the story here. Is telling the story with great wish rules and no great atmosphere, setting, etc. But it is really does that story told in a very classic way. So it's interesting to just see the tale tallly like with stuck, a classic slow Brooding Star Wars. Really does is the plot taking the lead? Think it's with Dalvinto that cold, clinical style a bit further quiz, because it does suit June story really well. I love SACI FI films that they don't have a crisp, clean and beautiful vision in the future, like how it's grimy and dirty, you know on it on a desert planet, and I think feeling news a does that. So I I've done it. I've done a bad from the station there is so you know, you know, it's hard to be okay, really new, real knew it. Thank you, and feeling news just that really well here. The one thing that I think is quite lacking it and in his adaptation is perhaps in some of the performances. I would say that the emotional side of the film, the heavy lifting ISS done more by the soundtrack and the visuals that create this atmosphere and experience rather than the performances of the characters. I'm not sure if you agree with me on that, but that was how I interipted the film. I think I quite complete. Yeah, I completely agree, as Christ was about to say as well, I think the score especially, it has that. I mean just go end the visuals. It kind of plays. That's what I think. It's the only maybe theme I could find really in what will nerve was doing with this film is the idea of being completely struck down. That that's not quite right, but you feel overwhelmed at overwhelms by the score and by the said design, and I think in the same way that the main character...

...is overwhelmed by everything that the world around him is doing right, in a sense, everything that's expected of him. And I think in that sense I agree with that the soundtrack, the score and and the set design drew more character building than really the performances do. which is not to say that the performance was bad, but I could not really aside from one we'll talk about later, I could not really pick one of the main performance that's really impressed me in that way? Yeah, sure, because I don't feel that anyone put forward a particularly measmerizing performance, but at the same time it don't feel there was any weaknesses in the cast. I think everyone did exactly what was required, but it was really news direction really lifted and elevated the film for me. Yeah, like I was, so about there completely agreeing. I think it's ties a little bit to the cold and clinical style and a little bit of what I talked about that classic presentation too, because it's not really like and the fine emotional atmosphere and thing of that kind the characters share or the performers bring the characters to life. Are doing it almost more with just how they look and express themselves almost a little not not quite like statutes, but this is not the robot person, but but their kind of it's kind of ICONOGRAPHIC in a way. It's really just do have the especially if you look at the hard con and family, but even with Dar creds as well. You just get that look down and then the actors and body, these characters and these icons almost if you will, and they do a really good job. But I don't really think that. Perhaps it's some exceptions. I think Timoa shall a Ma doesn't bring a decent bit into his role, for instance. But I don't think the emotions of what carries this true, or they're like the acting is what scarious. This true? I think they really just embothering this kind of the really classic ICONOGRAPHY, which is really interesting to see in a modern blockbuster. YEA, you bing up coldness, Chris, and I think that's really important. Why this is an extremely cold film, and you could say that of most of the nerves films, and I think that's part of my not my reservation with the bat one does is about to think, because I think there is the thing needs, the story needs at one point to bring some water warmth in it. But naturally that's something that would more happen in part two. And so that's where I'm kind of in suspended judgment about this swim right, because it really feels like yeah, it is about one man, and so I'm waiting to see if enough can make that switch, like yeah, will see. It's really impossible to tell, especially with the zandire character, right, which is basically non existent here. I mean it it's basically he's it's so we see what comes of that. But it's impossible to say now or if you want to do that, if even wolves to bring in that warmth. I mean it might be that it does refuses to do it. It's might be. I don't think I want that, but it's possible that he might an list me. You never know. It's our good old debate, Chris. It always comes back. It's through that we always go go on about this. You want the world, I want to call this going then this case, and I think it's it's all those films that a lot of people could argue to be like technically flawless. It's one of those. Is One of those really mass really well done films, but I could that have used a bit more warm pair to if I we given the kind of especially given the kind of material it seems to adapt, because we can tell that the original writing is not called like. The original writing has a lot of comedy in it and I think by not really bringing that out, the film loses something. Yeah, I think more than comedy, there's the writing. It's very, very written book, Juno. You haven't read it, but the style of it is quite notable, which and there's also a kind of sensuality to the way Herbert Rights, which is not really present here, but again it shows up more in the second part, so to say. I think the odd elements of comedy that we're use. I just remember a couple of lines for at the film didn't really work for me. They felt more like lines that were introduced the film purely to create a trailert it would appeal to the masses like, Oh look, this film has got some U in it, like the Superhero films that we see so often, and I found that it was kind of jarring in a way. Yeah, I agree. I mean I think this was the worst part of the film. I think there's this one really early scene, for instance, where essentially the emperor's Erart is arriving to give the news that they're going to take the family's going to take over a Rakis, and the Oscar Isaacs Du little tells during the his sidekick is a Surey's second in command. To Smile, and the it does roll in this as a security does go...

I am smiling and it's like that. That's this kind of like it's really the e thes is six s, the humor, you know, where it's where you kind of just pump up the common comedy and you have this kind of psyche, more POLPI or even campy, or just like more fun loving film that did this. This works. But here, you know, that's not the atmosphere at all. The atmosphere it doesn't call off all for it. Atmosphere is the same called really well composed, beautiful. It doesn't even colorful. You get the Benjamin Clementine Cameo as a herald of change. Like it's almost no dancing out. It's just this big set piece that's so well calculated that it doesn't work. It doesn't belong there at all. I would totally agree with that and that was one of the lines I was referring to. It just fell out of place and you know, wasn't really required. And, as you say, it's it's a very serious film and villain you takes it very seriously. So these little elements of humor don't really work very well. Yeah, I think it's very at odds with what the thing is doing, and that can be good in some way. I think the character of Duncan Eitherho is an example of where it kind of works right to have a character that's kind of an odds with the two of the film. But yeah, I agree with that particular example that it feels pretty out of place, not in a great way about sure, if even though could, I do hope it's, that we would feel. I'm no complaints about the taste memo. I think it's just as solid as everyone else, but that that role in particular is probably one of at this story line. Bread character is, without a doubt, you know, one of the more out of place things in this film just compared to the rest of the tone, because that's again really is aise comedy. That the storry eight these action comedy or space adventure, Space Oprah style character plotting. It's it's just feels so odd that it's there. But see, to me he's a white spot. I was mentioning earlier that does one perform. So that, I think, stands out and I think it's his and I think the reason for that is, as I mentioned, I want to know if the nerve is called just because that's who he is or if he's being purposeful, and I think the that character is giving me hope that he is being purposeful with the way he's being super cold and super yeah, overwhelming again, because these are characters that I kind of struck in this political intrigue, in these huge issues that are much bigger than themselves, and Duncan Idho is this character who is kind of outside of that, and I think that's why the fact that he's so different from the rest is actually something I would say, is a positive for me. I would agree. I thought that Duncan's narrative was great past the film, to be honest, and memories performance was was really good and, as Matthew would say, it's great to see another side of the traders. Is it? I'm going to do another awful pronunciation. He is it? What's their kind pronos? I think they pronouce it readys INS. Okay, it's great to see another side of the tradees climb, because we're dealing with the the key members of the family for the majority of films, so it's good to see more of it, a common man would say, and he brings a lot of heart to the role and I thought his narrative which particularly well be honestly, he's the only character who used like a human being. That sure if I agree with that, but probably expect that. The discussion for the pulp section. Is there anything else about this film that you thought didn't work or which recorded in some way. There was a part that didn't work for me, but I think we'll have to save that for the spoiler's territory. But to be honest, I think we're getting bogged down in things that didn't worry. I feel like we've just made playing into a film that I absolutely love the past ten minutes, which feels really wrong, but I mean it's yeah, it's fine to criticize it exupposed, but really I want to be build in this film up because time of it. Yeah, me too. So let's the the said to brighten off the positive with the air than they it. Is there anything else that you taught really stood out in the film? I mean I don't think we have to bring it to everyone's attention because they're all already wherever. But the sun worms, they were incredible. Oh yes, I thought they were actually done quite well in Lynch's version, but here they were just astounding. I mean there's the clip in the trailer where you see the worm just made the first huge appearance and that is breathtaking it.

It's absolutely incredible and I think that which really well. Yeah, I couldn't dog more. I mean they looked exactly. Yeah, also have a good ben way of the worms in the DNCH. Yeah, I think they were good. I also think he's keeping it. He's not quite giving you the full thing right. I mean you see, you see, it isn't bits of the worm, but it's at night. It's very good, but I feel like he's really keeping the grand spectacle of the words for later still. But yeah, I agree that the worms, I would be good. I think it's also question of less, this more and just the building it all up. Yeah, definitely. I'd also like to mention the action scenes as well, and there's a particular battle taking place on a fighter stairs that I thought was choreographed wonderfully. It doesn't go on for that long, it doesn't give you a lot to really grab hold of, but in the short time space that we see it it's incredibly visceral and memorable and I thought that stood doubt quite well for me. Yeah, I think the fight scenes when especially it's the way. It's a way that we never uses the sheets. I think that that's really makes the fight scenes have a sense of personality that can be hard to achieve the film like this. Yeah, and so, yeah, I guess that the fight scenes are quite good. Yeah, I completely agree here. I think that the choreographer here is spot on and that the shields do absolutely add something and I really like how reasonable they're done like. These are not impeneatorable shields, they're not some kind of absolute magic that goes like a little bit of extra armor, and I think it's handled in a very intriguing way and it's used to and to the fight tensions in some places where you're wondering how long will you know this armor last? So I really think that it's done. That part is also an acceptably but a lot, essentially all of the technology brought into this film, from faceship the sign to weapons, to the towns themselves. I think every all of these details that really work. It makes the world come alive, free, realistic, feel lived in. So I really want to praise all of the set designers and prop makers etc. And the action coordinators that, because they did a wonderful job. Definitely agree with how realistic and believable it's is. This incredible world just comes to life and even in this simple choices such as having some of the soldiers how they drop down from the sky just slowly float down. It feels so over worldly, yet it also feels really natural in it sense. The film and these little touches really elevate it to the next level. When we're talking about realism. I think the one thing that perhaps feel may feel slightly of is the fact that we are over eightzero years in the future, but the world structure is as essentially returned to the Middle Ages with the large empires. You have clans that trades them. This keep in sensity here almost feels like, you know, Scottish war clan. In a way it's like how how do you how realistic? Do you think it is or doesn't need to be realistic at all? But how do you think of a future that many thousand years in the future, that kind of has this system that's so similar to what we had such a long time ago? Yeah, I think it's a little ridiculous, but I don't think it's supposed to be realistic. Right. It's set a thousand years and in the future. It should not be this easily recognizable as a political system. But you know, it's easy to say but harder to imagine something that we wouldn't recognize right. So it's more I don't think this is an insipation story, right. It's not a story that is trying to predict what will happen to humanity. I don't think that's what he's doing at all. I think what what's Herbert and nerve now are doing is more when I don't know what love is doing because there's not one. But it's more an idea of colonialism. Maybe I see a lot more of colonialism, along with some empire structures that are kind of resemble you do or not, but to me it's much more about colonialism because we have this story of very loans, of a Rabia right, of this protagonist which is going to go among the desert natives. So I guess. I guess it makes me think small thing more of that. I think it's fine. It does not bother me. It's a complex political system with people acting in their interest and I think that's that. It makes sense internally and that is what matters. I think. I would agree. It's definitely easy to buy into this world and, as Matthew said, it's not meant to be, you know, a prediction of our future. It's just an imagined alternative future perhaps, and it's kind of relatable as well. There's the story, the battle over there the resources, except for it's very grounded in human plights that...

...are relatable in some respect. So I think Villeneuve does a great job of adapting the material, although it's it's difficult to say when I've the book, but I mean what he does with the source novel is commendable because he's made an exceptional film. So I am looking forward to delving into the books. It's took that was between in the S and you feed it with the spice sweat. Spice is like both oil and LSD, and so that's a very uniquely s Alsi. The S combination. Anyway, I do think it's all very interesting, the world that is created here. Whether or not it's relates to what would happen, I think it's irrelevant. Yeah, pretty much. I mean it is a spaced ouper and I mean we can talk about in the how silly it is that you all be using the Bagpipe as a sheaf musical instrument in your approaching wars and battles in it downstairs in the future. But like you don't really care about that. Yeah, the fact that he went with with Scotland for the treaties. Planet is kind of funny because the way it's described in the book is it's basically described as earth. Right, it's just a planet with a lot of water and some lens that some of it is green, and so I think we assume, because of Star Wars that when we see one seen on the planet, that's all of the planet is. And Yeah, I think it's funny that it's it becomes to Scotland planets with the bagpipes and everything. And I think star wars there's a some point of a comparison to because, yeah, I mean I think that they're really, really comparable in terms of scope. The hero with you those a potential bird, right, or messianic quality, massive an empire. I've been empire with the but that's the equal emperor constructing everything it it had. It sensually has everything star wars as as well. So the really good side by side comparison pieces. There's also the juxtaposition of SCI FI and fantasy. Oh, yes, absolutely, it's definitely fantasy elements in June, the desert, which is central, and both of them. But I do think the book June end the end of them. This one anyway. They both do take themselves. They're both our more ambitious thematically than Star Wars. It's what ours is. They about a personal stories. So it's an emotional story or he was journey and it's not about huge issues. Right, were not meant to think that hard about how the empire works. I do think in this case we are men to think in the long run harder about how the empire works and how it relates to real political systems. And Star Wars feels like more of a full adventure kind of family orientated film. That don't know what whether I'd say the same about June, and that's perhaps because of the series and the cold nature. I can't imagine young children grasping onto June is easily as perhaps a start. That's absolutely through. I mean I'm not sure if you could adapt are doing in a way that's very child friendly. I mean even even Lundra's version was far, far from Chile friendly. So it's a good it's a very good question. I think they probably could, but I do agree the material here is a little bit darker. Yeah, I think this is more child for lesn the inch version really, if anything, absolutely and and I people will be with really fun to do. US Go back and the compared these feelings a little bit, of all because I know that all of us have been catching up with Lynch's dude before. It is that episode. How would you say they compare? It's a very difficult comparison because they are two totally different approaches. I wasn't actually going to Rewatch lynches June, but I found myself still awake at half eleven last night. Why not look it on, and I actually only got an hour and a half into the film. I stopped it at the same point that will news June ended, and it was interesting to know that there's only forty five minutes left to go. So Somehow Lynch fits June part two into forty five minutes, which might come to explain why his film was derided so much. But I still think that lynches film has quite a few redeeming qualities. Again, the set design is impressive for the time that it was made, although some of the effects feel a bit hokey if you think back. This was one thousand nine hundred and eighty four. This was seven years after Star Wars, so we've seen epic space battles and the effects in some part feel more into the kind of thing that you see in in fifth in the s with these dodgy backgrounds a...

...specially when this spaceships involved. But the the actual set designs and the costume in is is excellent. But I think the main issue with it is that there's such a complex story that's being condensed into a small space of run time, so characters aren't given a full Ju that is required for audiences to really buy into this film. Yeah, as such as I have reservations about the inner version, I do think it's much better, but much accomplished than the Lynch version, which feels like a compromise between Lynch and studio because Lynch was not quite who he is now. And Yeah, it has definitely fun aspects. I didn't think the worms, as we said it, are good, that there's a lot of a design. That is that is good. It goes for a very kitchy said design, which but but it works kind of. It's not a very good film. It's just not very like. Attempting to do all of that narratively in such a short time is just very difficult. I definitely understand why. I even know when we two parts. Yeah, it's a thing that is charming in some senses right, and it's fun to see some of its performances. It's fun to see kind mclachlan and that main role. I think. I think it's pretty good, but yeah, it's kind of it has its charms but it's not really successful. Yeah, I think that's a fairly good the reputation of it has it Sharms, I mean hobnoutly. For me this is and for a little fracture to this is the only really failure of his current rare I mean lun says this is his one major regret that he, you know, realized the osna sinking ship and started the selling out and the he like there was a TV version of this very even removed, got his name removed from. So he is really unhappy with and I think part of the reason why the film on the cars out of forty five minutes for June part two is the fact that lunch actually presented a four hour cut to the producers and they trucked it. said that, you know, two hours and seventeen minutes of two hours and sixteen minutes where absolute Max and essentially forced recuts of all of it. So those last forty five minutes or so almost feel like a cool loge of this. This happened, this happened, this happened, and it's that part. This feels terribly hoky and I think there's just there's a lot of things to appreciate with it. I like both of you. Thing to set. The sign was actually really good. It's clear that a lot of thought went into these these places and regardless of the decade, I think just a lot of the set design looks great. Some of the effects not so much. I mean certainly a few steps below star wars, but it's a decently looking film and salt set sign is great, but it's just it's so campy, it's so silly, it's it's all over the place. It's a it's essentially what you could have expected an adaptation to be based on the comedic elements here, because it US leaning into the pope, but it goes beyond the pulp because full arm cap silliness and I'm not sure how well it works. I didn't enjoy it as much as I did it the first time I really watched it for essentially for first at the second time I saw it before this episode and yeah, it's a bit of its just feels like a bit of a mess. It's a silly mess. It's partially enjoyable. There's a moments of greatness there, but yeah, it's not. It's lynches worst for sure. It's also the result of you can see why Lynch was drawn to the material, right. I mean dreams are really important in June and obviously we all know that Lynch loves dreams, but it's really the result of him and the studio wanting more of a star wars whip off, essentially, and also the result of this very long drawn out process that Ted to the film. Right. The documentary should how skis June really shows you how it was an insane project that had to be put down and I guess the result had to be compromised. I should know it's not. It was kind of an inevitability and feeds like yeah, it's true, and I think it's been a few years since I saw the documentary or the row skiss do now. But how many hours did he the man his version to be? I think it was over seven at least. I don't remember. It's been a few years also, but yet extremely long. I mean his project was completely insane. Yeah, it could not be done. Definitely it will. It's like the parody of the insane s director who is given all the money, except this time you went so far that even though the seventh not good, it's heartbreade. Watched your ask his June to see how close it came to being made them. HMM, it seemed that it was just, you know, Short on funding and that that final few stages and he's got the whole thing story boarded and yeah, go and it's it's really sad that it never came to fruition. And then, you know, Lynch did what he could, but it was what I'd call it a brilliant failure. As we've said, there are redeemable qualities in the film...

...and you know, fans of films like flashboarding, you know, had a lot to love here, but it, you know, Film News Film is Far Superior. One thing that really made me chuckle in David Lynch's film is you've got Patrick Stewart, who plays the role of if Gurney, is obviously depicted as a brave soldier, a fighter, and then you see him running into battle holding his pet dog, a little pull under his arm and just cracked me up. Like what on Earth is going to happen to his dog there? It's not a fighting dog, is just a Pug, and that made me chuckle. He can's actually the family. I trade this dog. So I guess it's like must protect the dog. Yeah, but in the dog lob a really immediately there's dad plus ten points that, just for the Atrey of whole far you will go to protected our guest appos. I think one of the things that's interesting in and watching David interest doing is just how similar, like the actual plotting is. Almost all the same scenes, or at least the core scenes are included, from how many characters are introduced to the vital moments and that they're handled with almost bit very similar selections of dialog. There's obviously some changes here and there, but I think it's it's interesting that you know clearly, even though doing this a fairly long book, it's clear what the core moments are and it's just those two films, like a lot of these scenes fuls be placed right next to each other and the comparisons, despite, you know, setting, acting everything being different, it's still a very similar plot a utation. I mean it's a great example in how plot is not everything that you can get. You can have two very, very different films with the same plot. Absolutely, I take it. It's. Yeah, it just shows that no get the like. I mean obviously this wasn't really a lunch film because he compromised so much with the producer, but it really shows just get a different directory and get a different today in and you can just like the same plot, can be anything you wanted to be. And that is why it's so sad a to the role. Ski Didn't get to do any of it because in the S, I mean he was at his prime. He was going to have orswell said it's he was going to have some ad Dolly as the emperor. I mean it would have been through the roof and are just say. Still remember when I was watching that documentary and as solid drawings, and I mean the artist and the team he collected, and Wi should documentary makes a point of two, like they went on to work on the alien franchise and other Si fi franchises and actually promote many of those ideas in there. So it's just like the amount of count that was actually working on this project. I mean I think it would have been absolutely spectacular. I highly doubt it would have been a good film. I mean, I don't know. I'm really not convinced. I think the the big artbook we got from it, the documentary, is probably better than whatever the thing would have been. But it would have been interesting. It's possibly true. I I it's for me. I mean I love your droll skisurreal is works and I think you he really hasn't made like at that point you hadn't made a bad film. And even his autobiography kind of thing, which is like a tree partner now is some two parts already. I'm still we still waiting for a third. That works too. So I think it, but I think it whatever I think would have been again on the quake film, I'm just not sure. It's just too bad he couldn't power like done it as a miniseries or done it in installations. Like why did you have to demand as seven hour movie with a big studio? I mean today it would have been no problem about every if we don't got that, and that's like you know. So it's it's it's just proof that. But I guess filmmakers have more options and chances today and I don't know. I mean the seventy's you had a lot of chance and knewsky did some crazy films. I suddenly haven't seen them. I'm just admits I will see them at some points. But yeah, I don't know that you have less opportunities now, I think, all in terms of making longer projects, like in terms of getting funding for anything you wanted. Clearly the sevenths was better because literally they were going to be the real literally negotiating with us a real is crazy director to end do a major film for a major studio and handle that property, and they were essentially giving him a free reign to do the craziest things in the world, which is just insane. But I think in terms of actually getting something that long made, I think that part is easier than ever before, probably just because of the fact that we have seen a great rise of limited series and that type of content getting larger budgets. Right. Yeah, that's true. That's just sure we get more heavy long films, also because of digital, I would guess. I also think it's kind of fun to imagine what Kodolski would give, would give would work out as a mouth...

...film director, which is kind of the trajectory. Now basically let him do what to play selected hiker Ikey do it, didn't they with tourgner rock it is had to calm it down with the main plot, but they let them go a bit crazy with with a gladiator stuff. So I mean, yeah, would be really interesting to see all three of these directors that have been attached to to know some of my favorite director. So it is a shame that we didn't see your Avowski's version, but I don't know how well his surrealistic qualities would have worked with the material. We saw how Lynch's nightmare wish approach to it kind of fell through. And also very accomplished director. So I think that finally we're fill a new if we've got the perfect director, because he is so used to creating these grandiose sci fi films and, as we said, is cold and clinical approach to it really fits the source material very well and I think that's why he's, you know, done the best job. He was perfectly suited to do the adaptation that we all hoping for. That's really it said that all its assumed that the perfect apation this would have been slightly more on the warmer of fun sides and now I can see your point entirely and I think it's really worth not into that renew actually decide that that. Like he has been interested in doing this property for a while, but the one that the experience first, I mean his experience in this was actually doing doing a rival and then blade the run their two and forty nine. So I think it's clear that it's kind of been building up to this as well as had this on his mind and he's been, you know, handling these bigger SCI FI properties as to make sure he walked ready and that that might just be because it saw how Lynch failed by jumping in on this first big production. Are Like you did do. So it's it's nice to see that, you know, we can plan that well and build up that experience and then really go for it. I think that's part of his ethos as well, because after he directed his film Maelstrom, which I feel bad about it because I haven't actually seen it in two thousand he was really disappointed with the film and he retreated away from directing for nine years until he directed his next film, because he wanted to build on his experience and make sure that he was up to the task of delivering the film that he wanted to deliver it, and it shows a game that he's doing this with with the SCI fi films. As as you explain, Chris, he's been building up to June. But I would honestly say that blade runner two thousand and forty nine, his his masterpiece, and I didn't think that he's going to be able to top that with June part two, but I will certainly be first in line to find out. Yeah, I don't think you can quite top later. Went before canine either, though I didn't love it as much as either of you. It is also a really stunning, wonderful, big world, great, great atmosphere, stunning the size, and I think it just goes that step further. So it struggle to see doing part two managing to do that, but it but it's possible. And Yeah, I think looking at really news style as a SCI FI director, don't like, and how this type of blockbuster is now actually becoming viable, because later on the nineteendn't do that well as some people had hoped, while this is actually again newing blockbuster. I mean they were actually skeptical of green lighting part two. Like will knew went into this film without part two Green Lit. It was only green lit after the first numbers came came back after the after the premiere. So this could really just a bit all of those films left in the cold without that part two, which is if it did do well with it, I'm in an absolute travesty and really big risk and and a really big risk as well. So what do you think about is called calculated style that that billy knew was really bringing back to the blockbusters in but before getting to that question, I do want to talk about you, but about the way in which I think June relates to play run two thousand and forty nine which, as you mentioned, it within my absolutely love, and I think a lot of what I love about DNA is two things that June doesn't quite do yet, but I see hints of it right. It is that juxtaposition of some pulpy elements in a very heady, very intellectual SCI FI story. I think it's not much there in June, but it is a bit with that can hidea hope and perhaps my bodically is this kind of the way he deconstructs the hues journey, the idea of the children, one one. I think that's the central old thing. I played one a two thousand and fourteen nine.

Is How these narratives we build for ourselves can be so powerful, and it's interesting in Judeis to reverse what it's a narrative that is imposed on the protagonist and how it seems to be a suffocating thing in the frame as I see it now. But it's hard to say exactly where the nerve is going with it because we'll see. Will with about two we forget to the this new blockbusters side. It's interesting because I don't think that June has been successful. It's been quite successful in France and everyone around me loves it. It's weird experience. I'm the least enthusiastic person I know about the film in your life, but it's not like it's a huge, huge blockbuster either. I think it's it's more like that kind of Christopher norlan niche right or way, where you can do big budget and be successful, but it's not like star wars film. Right. It's not good to be that this insane money maker that changes everything. That being of a no, go ahead. Good. I just say say this love how you say Christopher Doll and niche, because, I mean he's made some of the biggest blockbusters ever, essentially, like he has yeah, films, yea. Yeah, what I mean is is just like there's not many people like him, right, it's not. He's not. He's obviously very popular, but he is doing his thing. I don't think there's many directors you can compare to him and I think the nerve is one of them. And what I was going to get to is that Cilli Christopher nomen with the dark night. He had a huge influence on how blood business would made it. So I do think something like Junes can have that effects. Maybe, though, it will let it. We not be as successfuls like night one. So it's hard to say. Yeah, I think you're completely right there, and I think it's also very fair to place Nolan and we new into very similar categories, because those really are the two biggest names that are working within that type of massive bud shot and they're both very accomplished directors with very clear artistic visions, very clear styles that are bringing really different elements into that type of hyper mainstream that just is on everybody's lips. No, I agree. Doing probably won't reach the highest levels of Nolan, but it's in there in the conversation, it's making those numbers. So it will be interesting to see just what type of effect that will be and if it will indeed be more directors like Nolan and the renewed directing films that are topping the box office, or if it will continue to be primarily the type of Star Wars and adventures films that we have been seeing recently. I would love to see more films like June and it's clear that feeling and Nolan paving their own way and doing their own things and they're being trusted with these incredibly large projects and it's so encouraging to see. But I think it's such a if they've got such distinct visions that are quite difficult to replicate. So I don't think or seen him flux of similar projects, but I would like to think that these the kind of films that would inspire potential young filmmakers to make their way into the industry and we'll be films that we talked about for years to come. To be honest, I kind of hope he doesn't have the kind of influence that no one ended up having, because I think that brand of some seriousness can really be annoying if it's not backed up with, you know, an accomplished statistic vision. And so I kind of hope it doesn't happen like you you described it because, to be honest, no, that's fair enough. And, like we talked about it, I do think that the self seriousness off duing is one of its or other the fact that it's including in these kind of jokes while being self serious is one of its weakest points. And Yeah, if it's simply ends up with an older era like the late thousands are where, you know, we just got a lot of purpose really bleak films that try to just be a little bit darker but didn't necessarily have that extra edge, it didn't really do much, for variety is always good as well. Mixing things up is always good. So if you cultivate like a climate where that's more acceptable and where those films do better, I do think that we probably would seem more great directors being able to enter that rail as well. So it's a it's a difficult question there, but I actually think I disagree with you. I think that if we allow for blockbusters to be a bit more artistically inclined or to be a bit more...

...serious, a bit be a bit more ambitious, even if some of those protetects are a lot of those projects and being mediocre. I think it would actually open the ways for a few more directors doing it, just as it's quite possible that Noland opened the way a little bit for will new. And I do actually think that one thing that's really interesting to me here is that can all kinds of comparison made between the way we new has made this film, like what is approaches, but it's to me it feels very classic. I mean I would almost compare it with David Lean, for instance, and especially Lauren software, which I know is an inspiration for Dune as well actual inspiration for a book, which just seems very especially fitting for renew to go in that type of direction. But it does actually seem to me that we may be leaning back a little bit to a time when the we are a lot of directors that are locals, their master directors, working in these massive, massive productions and at least to me, that would be really exciting to see more of. Yeah, the David Green comparison is interesting because I don't think the nerve has the domanticism of Lena. Don't. But I don't think that's what you were saying. Like you're saying more about the place of a director who who makes these hugely popular themes and is also, you know, major utter. I think. I don't think we are seeing a change in that. I think the relevant factor happening now is still more the mcu than it is June right. So I think people like the nerve, like Nordon can. That's why I was saying it's a niche, because not be not not a niche in the sense that so small thing, but in but in the sense that it's very much around an individual who manages to get to that level. I don't think we are seeing systemic change where you have a bunch of major hotels are going to do this doumber so that. I just don't see US getting back to that right now. Yeah, that's fair enough. You're probably right there. To be honest with you, though, it would be great to see, and after going into a bit more of be an historical discussion, if you will, let's bring back the fun factor and clay then great new segment that I like to call the pope factor. So we've been talking a little bit about up the elements in the desert. We can play this with the Lynch's doing as well. Maybe we can call it the camp factor. But how pulpy do you think the the news film actually is, or the polpe element in it at all? Well, there is the POLP element of Duncan Idaho. I think that's really this beginning and the end of it. It's really just just him to me. And so I would say, if you think about it, I would the scale or zo two hundred. I guess we have to understand what zero and a hundred are. A so Zio is like an Sfilm by scribing really, or something like that. And and what's a hundred? I Guess Fast Gordon Right. So the June on that scale. On that scale it's like maybe thirty or something. Just because I fight inherently has some put up to it. So and like. So I guess the baseline for Sci Fi is maybe twenty and maybe it's he's more like a twenty five. Then let's say that's twenty five. I think I would go slightly lower, maybe a twenty on the scale. I don't think that pulp is a word that I would have used to describe filling news June. Perhaps it is slightly more fitting for lynches June, but again it's not something that would come to mind. I think it, you know, it takes itself too seriously to be considered a pulp outing. Yeah, that's a pretty fair point. I mean, pope is usually associated with low quality and the there's this is no butning that this is a very high quality production. But I think I would go with appulp rating of thirty or perhaps even thirty five, because to me at least, it's not just the donke and Idaho and that character. I agree, that is all pope, from, you know, the macro hugging to the signs he makes when he know, goes off to save the day. It that. That is just that is just a publicly chase turned up to, if not a hundred, at least eighty or seven. But I think there's a lot of older, more told P elements are like you have a sort of the plotting itself. You have those little jokes like like you mentioned earlier. But this is it.

I am smiling or it's some of the running into battle for the duke scenes, some of the other slight comedic efforts in there and just all of the you know, hero tropes that are played in there. I think when you will undercut them, I think will be some really fun stuff with this in the future. But you know, we have this. Essentially it is like, like my Jo said, Scifi is inherently all alost inherently polpe on some level. But when you have these character encounters where you're proving their work quickly with some battling and it's it's all of these easy sci fi showunder elements and distinct that the pulp kind of seeps in. And yes, I would go with thirty five, but I think that's pretty good. We're all between twenty and thirty five. We're all well under fifty s. So I think that if you have to pass fifty to be pulp, at least like doing pass. It's not pulpy, it's it's declared safe. But what about the lumshes doing them? And to be more appropriate to it, we can call this additional segment. They can factor. So out of a hundred, how campy do you think lynches work is? So I do think pompe and compe can be two me a different things, but I guess Ninches, both Lynches Juniors booth. So so that's fine and it's so like a eighty five or something. It's quite pumpy. One thing I would like to add the Chris is after we answer this, is how would you eaate blade one of twenty four, two nine? And I think that's an interesting point of conversion. It is, it is indeed. That's really difficult. I think that the style is turned up even more, but the plot elements there are quality pulpit. To be honest. I think it has that essentially mustached whirling villain with the Tall Moltiv is essentially a being villainous. So it's hard to say. I might as the say it has a higher poll factor just for a will and a loans put it around forty percent, maybe because that one is the one that really does lives. The breeds a lot of the shoulder of ropes, I think, because it's even more stylized and not necessarily it's still called the still bit a new but I think it's it has more color and it obviously place even more with the neon are dropes, like just a storation of the DRONA does. I think it works. It fits better I would agree with your assessment there. Ques. It's definitely feels like it owes a lot more to film noir as well, with the mysterious protagonist with it, you know, we're a dark past and things like that, and it obviously ramps up the neo no how and I think the Lenoir elements do feel a lot PULPIA, which obviously they're not present in you whatsoever. But in what about the June, the Lynch version, Thompson to you didn't answer that, because I do ailed us. Well, I think the Lyn Trish and, as you said, it's much closer to pope than film news fishing and with the camp factor, when you include that as well, it is probably past fifty, maybe maybe going up to the this seventy range. I reckon moderth compared to my pure sit if I though, yeah, I mean if you if you put Ush Gordon at the top, all that's the way to become in Flash Gord, and I mean it's yet less of the way there. Yeah, the the Queen Soundtrack for Flash Gordon. That is at least thirty points right. So I'll put in. So, yeah, lynches unite, seventeen. That feels right to me got a big winner. I think I would basically put it that fifteen. I think that's what makes the him great. To me, it's that it it has those part pediments. I think you mentioned the villain, of course, Joey d to the that's also sevia hooks. I think it's hard to pronounced. She's basically a hench woman. I mean if you have a henchman or hench woman? Yeah, you're that's technically what do those to the with rob on? I mean he is essentially the henchman. Yeah, we don't see him that much. RIGHT TO COMPACT? No, no, I'll definitely not know. And, like I said, it is amplified so much more. Beater under two thousand and forty nine. So I think for me, if I'm going to rate the camp score of David Lynch's Dune, and I would also go even beyond Matt You, I would put it at the camp score of ninety or maybe even ninety five, because this is almost as close to Flash Gordon as you're going to get. Like you literally have red headed villains like this, like kind of some they look like trolls almost with big the eyebrows you've when the eyebrows, Oh God.

And then you have the like we talked about how amazing we taught the shield technology. who was in Whindu student in Lynch's versus their sentially this massive local blocks. It's like this. It is like the bearing the blue fight suits. I like this, like there's like squares on top of them and they bought the squares bouncing into each other. I can think all of the fat factors there just it's it comes off as just really silly and to an extent that's honestly. Well. Better things with the film. I think it links some breeds that style of camping has too, so I think it's some ways a strength, even though the production and the producers, etcetera, it reeled it in and I homes to think if I go slightly further all out, it might have been an even better film. Yeah, I think June, in terms of camp it just isn't quite self aware enough to go into camp. I mean, I think, but it's a high line. Yes, it's a very fine and I think you're on the point there because like when, like you have those kind of like beam fifties movie kind of thing going on, there were no McLoughlin is laying in bad he's dreaming and just goes like Dune. Best are planet and it's so big pompous and bizarre and stale and it's and there's much like I'm really not sure what's lunch going all in like Cam from real angle. Was it trying to do something more normal? Because some of those things really could have been star wars or close like it. So it's it. I guess you're right. It is not selfaware enough to really cross that barrier. But then again, does camp need to be fully selfaware? I guess as one of those existential questions it's hard to answer. Maybe will do a camp episode one day, but yeah, it's too big for this. It is indeed. Yeah, let's try to book that in a full arm camp episode. And I think this is crision that's almost run its core. So for all of you listeners who have not yet seen real new student or maybe Davillunis doudent as well, let's just enter full arm spoiler territory here and talk about the ending, talk about the character fates, talk about how we felt about it, what worked, what didn't, and how do you feel about the film just leaving US right there? At the end of the story. Spoiler warning. Well, that I don't feel great about that. I mean I that's this kind of my issue with the same night it does. It's is does not feel like a complete thing and it's funny because it has kind of the each other of the Jedi think not quite to that blue not Portunity to night let wach o of the king thing. Not Quite to that point. But with this multiple moments that feed like endings. There's one point specifically where, like you, finally finally meets backs and Dyer and she says this is only the beginning and I was thinking, God, yeah, obviously you ended there, but there's actually twenty five minutes left or something. So I do think it's awkward, right. I think he he needed like the four plus hours but he couldn't do it in one film, so he kind of almost arbitrarity and did it where he ended it. Yeah, I don't think it's the most natural thing and at that I don't think it works great. Yeah, I was also slightly disappointed with how it ended. It's natural for a film that is split into two parts that it can't feel like a contained work. What it does leave some disappointment with the viewer because it doesn't feel like a natural place to really cut the story into. From what I've seen in front of the story in Lynch's version, it feels like it was just in you know, in ourbitaries point that they reached in the story to stop. But having said that, I still absolutely love the experience and it wasn't enough to take away my enjoyment of the film. If anything, you know, it's got me high to up for the second one. And while we're talking about the end of as well, I'll now mention the other aspect to the film that I found really frustrating, which is when you see Paul ride in the sandworm. It just felt know our place and it felt almost silly. I didn't like how it was depicted, just the whole film being so serious and and crisping perfect and then it it just felt a little daff to me. I don't know if you found it it that seemed similarly jarring, but it didn't work. I didn't think I guess it didn't. I don't know why I did not. Did Not parch a goodly shocked me. I guess it's Dream Vision Right. So yeah, it...

...did not particularly, but just to ask something that we had to be yeah, I think this is one of those elements there that, like I didn't really mind it too much, in mind any of the more slightly more popular silly elements that much, honestly, because it is handled fairly well. It's just like it's like blip. But but yeah, no, I think all of my least favorite moments was also of the most pulpy moments and since it's a bit of a spoiler, I can reveal it now, but it's, you know, the execution of the trait there where with you know, I'm not going to if you're still listening and you just want mile spoilers, I won't spoil it too much, but essentially there's a trait there in the trade is the missed and this this character does. He doesn't for his wife. He wants to save his wife and because the hard collins has kidnapped her. And essentially he goes in there and it's like Oh, you could join your wife and then they kill him like that's one of the probably the most campy moment, or one of my the most cappy moment in the empire film. It's just such a you know, fairly conventional popping moment. So it's it's that that's I really didn't enjoy how that was done. It was just so obvious. Well, yeah, I think then go ahead. I didn't man that aspect and and it was that that exact scene is also in Lynch's version. So it's clear that's what herb its intended and I thought it was handled quite well, to be honest. But I think to me that shows your action kind of shows the limits of the self seriousness is that I don't think the hard conning our meant to be characters, you know, the amoment to be an embodiment of greed, right, and like the trades, are more meant to be the embodiment of a kind of dignity, but dignity that is not perfect to at least. HMM, and I think maybe so that comment played fine for me, but that's because I guess I have that context and I can see how, because we know take it, takes it quite seriously. I mean it's not that it's not taken seriously in the book, but I guess the approach is a bit different and I can see how. Yet that moment cannot work with the nerves stime. I think that's very much it. I mean, I didn't absolutely hate it. Is that one of those points that just like that, that type of plot they didn't feel quite at home in the field has made quite quite this way. I guess we were got to the ending. I think it he does choose a moment that's important to finish it right. It's kind of porn accepting his destiny in a sense, with that fight and becoming a man and all that, but it's it's such a straightforward application of the he was journey that I think will be subverted, and so maybe maybe that's part of my infestation with the thing where it's because we end on the point where it's not being subverted. But that's also why I wait for but to write. I think we're not going to say on that. No, I think you completely right, and that's yeah, I think it did. Was a really easy point to end it up, but if it really felt like an anti climax as well, and there's so many older points or times that it could theoretically have ended, and the way they did it felt a little bit like it was a TV episode, like it felt a little bit like, you know, this is a mid midseason TV episode. It's not an important climax. Is just like we are going to go here now there's some psychticipation of what they'll do. It's that. That's probably it just fistled out a little bit and that's fine. It's it olds up to it. It calls itself part one. It's not like yeah, I just think that he could probably, he and his writers could probably have ended it on a slightly higher note where they felt like a film and it's sequel or a prop or a normal dual if you around, than literally just part one and part two, because with that that you can do and they destine every way. It really is just find a reasonable point to shop it and then shop it there and it's, you know, not the high point, not post climax, it's just shop it at any point that kind of feels fitting. And Yeah, I agree with you with that was the slight low point. Then again, like you've been saying, we don't know what it's going to happen or I mean, do you read the Book I've sent? I've seen the previous adaptation, so we have a decent clue. But part two is coming. The tail will be complete and I think that's probably going to be the more exciting part are because they will then get a complete work every will. I mean, this may be one of those few films like they then he belonging from the S, which you know, people will add to the list as a unified whole if part two really works. Just because the station is so vague, it is clearly set up as one...

...work. So what are your hopes, in your expectations of part two? Do you think is will live up to, surpass deliver other expectations like what? What do you expect? What are your thoughts on part two? I think it's got a great chance of exceeding my expectations. If I'm honest, I think that with June filling has established a excellent foundation for him to build upon his characters in and is storyline that he is introduced to us. If we compare it to played on a two thousand and forty nine, for instance, think one of the reasons why I love that so much is that it's in an established world and he was able to build on Scotts Foundation to bring us something new, and now with June he's established this foundation so he's able to take US two other places in the second one with how it's having to go through all the introduction of the character development accepter, and there's clearly going to be a lot of huge action set pieces etc. From what I've seen in Lynch's version. So I've really got high expectations and I think if anyone can meet them, it's probably a villa new so I guess when I want, expects are just this. Definitely want from part two is for it to be very different compared to a bad one. I mean statistically in line, but maybe totally and and just what it's saying different. Tom talked about it's laying the foundations, when I kind of want him to blow up the foundations, right. So that's yeah, I just want something that is going in a different direction while still being coherence, of course. So I'm very curious through to see it and yeah, it reasonably excited about it. Yeah, I think I'm cloth the Tom Mary. Yeah, I think I have fairly high expectations for it. I think part two will be a great film. I think I would be very shocked if we could not. The liver. He is, you know, a director at his prime here. I think is established himself as a master director. I think he's has the tools at hand. He has the freedom attempt to really go ahead and do this the way he wants to. So it would be a colossal surprise to me if he, at the very least, could not make a film that, you know, visually, totally atmospherically it is terms of craft, etc. Shouldn't live up to part one. And then the question is, you know, will the plot allow him to really make any changes to the plot? Will the new characters, the casting, etc. Calls some additional issues. There's certainly things that would lead it to being slightly worse or slightly better. So I'm sharing some of matures feelings there. I would like it to, you know, blow the presumptions up a little bit there, to be a little bit more dangerous. I'm not sure if it has the ability to do that, but I'm really excited to see what is going to be. In at the very least I think it will be as similarly great but somewhat straightforward, epic action, Sci Fi, adventure and like. If that's the floor, it might be lower, I might be shocked, but if that's the floor, I'm very, very happy regardless, and it's quite high on my list of anticipated films. My one reservation is that the film's only got a release date, so we're expected to see it a the twenty fove Octavius two thousand and twenty three, which, you know, it's just under two years away. But I don't know if that's going to put extra pressure on Villaineus and his crew when really we want to give him all the time in the world to make sure you can continue the story in the best way possible. It might be enough time for him, but will have to wait to see. And it's also quite encouraging to hear that he's already mentioned some potential plans for a trilogy, with the third movie adapting June Messiah for the screen. So you know, if all things go well, we could have at least two more June movies coming our way, and that is just excellent news, very exciting. I mean you could have even more like that a lot of Dune books, but I think we could guess these dates. I would say the best year and a half has proven that. Release dates. I'm never sitting stone, so I guess I'm not that's worried about that. Yeah, that's a good point to actually agree that. Yeah, I think he has his foundations down there to he has most of his cast. So I mean it might be a lot of like it, since the second film of that Green Lit. There might be a lot of set construction where probably going to be seeing, you know, the Frem and cities, etc. It's going to be really exciting to see how they are built. We might alter the other planet. So they might just be a lot of prepping and planning they are going into it. That could stall it, but I think that when you have a solid foundation like this, I don't think meeting that deadline is going...

...to be that hard. If it is, I'm sure like let's hope they move it for him. So it's a good point time. I'm going to be cautiously concerned about it, but I think he'll deliver. I think it would be very shocked if he could not deliver on this time for him and, as I did not know there would, could be a trilogy. That's even more exciting. So we really going to see really new doing one of the things he does best, possibly two times in a row now or three times in a row counting this, and just continue to excel. Hopefully as a SCI FI director, and while it would also be excited to see him going entirely different directions, I think that this kind of art for him, it's going to be really exciting to see and might give him a really good boost to and what they can do later. If we're bringing in that comparison to Nolan once again, could this be his dark night trilogy? Who indeed, it really could be, and with that optimistic final note there, I think we had the perfect but to end the episode. I hope you will not listening to us, because we've certainly enjoyed talking through Dune. Thank you so much for listening and join us again soon. You have been listening to talking images, the official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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