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Talking Images

Episode 57 · 1 month ago

Does Hollywood Have an Accent Problem?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Hollywood loves to flex accents, some decent, some terrible. In this episode, we see if we are able to buy the illusion or if film after film has been destroyed by bad accents. 

We will also take a look at the far more extreme examples of films set in "foregnia", but with all the characters speaking in English with a twink of local accent to sell it all home. Does this work ... at all?!

Oh, and Ridley's Scott recent House of Gucci will keep popping out throughout as Matthieu is quite convinced Jared Leto is imitating Super Mario.

You are listening to talking image and the official PODCAST M I C M Forum Dot Com. Well, hello there, I'm Chris and I have to apologize to you. I was gonna try to start this episode on some kind of Joke, put down and accagurate the accent, but it's not working. I'm terrible, terrible at accents, so, rather than try anything too experimental, let's just figure out why that didn't work. I mean, yes, I'm truly and genuously terrible, but does the problem run a little bit deeper? Or, to put that question in a slightly different way, does Hollywood have an accent problem? This episode is in a way about our unbility. They to suspend this belief, be it that a famous American actor is suddenly from Ireland or Nigeria, especially if they're barely better at it than me, or, more extremely, that all of these actors that we see in front of us speaking in English are actually speaking in the Russian, French or Italian. Does it help the illusion if they say Shaw or a Frieda Shan? Is it distracting? Does it hurt the film, or are we able to accept that this is how the film has showsen to tell its story and simply go along with this world? Are The people who complain just not good sports, essentially, or is this a case of the film industry making quite silly decisions? For instance, are there not enough Irish American or the Irish actors available to, you know, not need to cast? Then are the COPRI and Cameron Diaz as Irish and gangs of New York, or to use a slightly more modern reference, because they have gangs of New York is a lot twenty years old now. What about house of Guci, which we will dive into a little bit later, or the Northmen, because these films still exist. There's still a large amount of films where you have a bunch of mostly American and British actors. They're playing Russians, they're playing scandinavians, they're playing French to Italian and and sometimes they put on accents, sometimes they don't. It can be a bit weird. Is this a relic from the twentieth century? They should just stop, or does it actually work? I mean, there's so much to impact here. So let me just bring in my three absolutely wonderful co hosts, mature, Saul and, for the first time this season, Adam from New York or we're just so happy to have back. So that's to just started with you, Adam. How eager are you to believe accents in films? Do you try to go along with the illusion, or are you easily distracted? Hi, Chris, thanks for welcoming Um. I'm glad to be back on the show. My answer is I'm tend to be very eager to believe the accent. You know, narative filmmaking is all about suspension of disbelief anyway. So I'm not usually going into a movie to evaluate an accent. It's not something I tend to pay a lot of tension to. It's not something that easily distracts me. I'm an eager participant in the movie experience and so, Um, even though I guess we're gonna be talking a lot about accents, it's not something that really usually jumps out at me during a movie. Very good, essentially every director's a dream. What about you, Matteo? Do you pay attention to the accents? I guess my answer is pretty similar to Adams, except, okay, not about accurate languages much more than accents, because I'm not that great at telling accents apart, and it's not as big an issue in French, though it does come at some time. So I guess in English I'm just less sensitive to it because it's not my language. But yeah, accents, I'm less sensitive than languages. And what about the Youth Al do you go along with the illusion or does it bother you a little bit? I go along with the illusion every single time. The best way to think of a film for me is a film creates its own reality. So I try to go along with that and I don't really try and charms that in any way. I don't necessarily have the best ear for accents, so that probably helps. But accents is something that rarely, if ever, bothered me when I'm watching a film and I just think of it similar to got these odd Hollywood films with these Matt Painting backgrounds or all these really old school special effects that aren't impressive but you accepted...

...as part of the film's reality. And I guess similar with accents or even, to go with what mature said about language, with languages. I just go along with it if the characters are talking in an accent or talking in a language other than what it should be, as long as it's consistent. If it's inconsistent, so the accent slips in and out, then it might bother me a little bit, but if it's don't consistently, I just accepted as part of the film's reality. What about you, Chris? I think I'm a little bit more on defense on this one. So I do go along with the illusion generally, but there's always this slight disconnect if we're talking about films that are set in a different country and everyone's speaking in accents, because there's usually those accents do vary. That will go with a bit in the route. There's some will make a better effort than others and there's always this added layer. It depends if it's more artificial film, and I we've spoken about this a lot solder, I do love artifice. So, for instance, if it's very clear that there's no attempt at what Soever to put on an accent, for instance in that of Stalin, where everyone's actually speaking in English, actions that's well set in Russia, that's very, very different than that, that work in a very different way. But no, generally, like you guys that do try to be a good sport, I do generally follow along with the illusion, but I think there's a slight disconnect for me, and based on this conversation, that this connect seems to be slightly bigger than for you guys, and my next question here might not even be that relevant anymore given your answers. But how good doesn't accent have to be to be believable? Do you tend to scan the performance to look for slip ups? Does every syllable had to be pronounced correctly? I know you soul mentioned that if the accent slips all and off that you'll possibly have a problem. So how good does that accent or dose accents need to be for you to believe the illusion? Um, I don't think they have to be that that good. I think that people love to complain about accents. When a movie comes out where an actor is attempting an accent, I think it's one of the most common things to read about is criticism of that accent, and sometimes it's warranted, I think a lot of the time it's it's kind of lazy criticism. I think it's unusual for an accent to be ad enough that it affects a performance and it's only really when it's accent is either very exaggerated or it's inconsistent, as as soul said. Of the two I think the exaggeration is much more problematic. I was thinking back to a movie that I remember for for having a bad accent, and that was k nineteen. I don't know if anyone remembers this uh submarine movie, but it had too needs Harrison Ford, an American, and Liam Neeson, and Irishman, and they're both attempting Russian accents. I really strongly remember Harrison Ford's accent as being very bad. I'm back and watched the clip and I realized Liam Neeson's accent was very bad too, but for a different reason. Harrison fords was exaggerated Liam Neeson's was inconsistent. It's indicative that I remember Harrison Ford's accent more. I think the exaggerated accent is more problematic than the inconsistent accent. But I don't think an accent has to be that good. I've definitely seen performances where actors were criticized for the accents and I never noticed it. I'm not going in looking for for the actor to make a mistake. Yeah, I would agree with that, but I think it really depends. But I think often the reason you you think of it as lazy criticism is, well, because sometimes it is, first of all, but also because I think when you hopping on someone's accents is because something else is not going right with the film, so that you're noticing the accent, I think, and the degree of precision rights that you want in an accent. I think it depends on the film. It depends on the level of the submilitude, and I think the issue with Hollywood is that we know the actors pretty well, we know what they sound like, and so when they try to sound different, it's it's more jowing to us, and especially if it's in a period piece where we expect some degree of immersion into the setting. I think that's where Hollywood went into troubles the most these days. But yeah, so I guess my answer to to your question, Chris, is it really depends on the degree of the submilitude the film is is going forward, on the level of artificiality, as you as you put it and well about yourself. So it's really interesting to hear and talking about criticizing access as being lazy criticism. I actually come out with a similar to evel one sits lazy outside it's more easier. It's like picking up small as things and not really accepting them, and they don't really...

...break the reality of the film. So it turns of exaggerated accents. I don't think I've really ever had a problem with that. Inconsistent ones, yes, but I can't even really think of any at the top of my head. I mean I remember there are some complaints at the time that Michael Paine's accent in the side of house rules, but I don't remember that being particularly one that slipped up a lot. So even though I've said once that it inconsistent be the ones that any me the most, I actually don't have any examples of that I've had. I guess that's how little attention that I pay to accents. I guess for some people, if they're used to the accent and it can be a bit more annoying. But I think what mature said is actually probably going to be the most accurate thing, which is if something else is annoying about a film already, then an accent which is slightly off might just make it a little bit worse. which maybe is the problem with House of Gucci, because I thought there was an amazing film. A lot of people though, so that it was way too long, and I guess if you're not finding it as swiftly pipe paste as something like gladiator or alien, then maybe you're going to think, oh, maybe this accent is the problem, not the actual length of the film. So I guess that's possible. Something else interesting, which mature mentions about accents being jarring if you know the actors, and I guess I can think of one example for that, which is knives out. I don't know what sort of accent Daniel Craig was going for in knives out, but I just remember the whole time going well, really stranger whenever we started talking. But I don't know if I really hold that that much against the film. But yeah, I don't know, that's actually such a great example. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing through else. It was so weird seeing that or seeing that voice come out of under the Craig Space. Yeah, but in the case of knives out, Daniel Clegg is doing a comedy accent. I'm pretty I mean I think it's supposed to be and it's supposed to be a comedy accent, kind of like in the vein of pole with his very, very strong, like Belgian accent in those movies. To to me he's very deliberately drawing attention to his accents and in a way that works for the film. So so it's not a bad accent, it's just a ridiculous one. I agree with you, Matthew. I think that accents really don't matter. is in comedies. For some reason it just it just doesn't doesn't really matter if it's exaggerated, over the top or jarring. Uh. You know, Chris mentioned the death of Stalin earlier. That's one where you've got a mix of British English and American English accents and I just didn't notice because it's it's a farce. Same with Daniel Craig and knives out or in Logan, lucky both of them. He has a very exaggerated southern accent. Just didn't seem to matter to me because it's a comedy. Don't seem to have expectations for very similitude in comedies that we do in dramas. I agree with that in general, but I guess for me, you know, as wasn't a constant laugh right comedy which you know, the jet of starling is or something like Dr Strange live is with the crazy accents that Peter Sellers does there. So I guess that's probably adver part a little bit. I would agree that knives out is a comedy, but I guess it's a bit more of a serious comedy for me. But you know, like I said, you know Ay criticism. I don't want to be the person in this podcast your paps on the most about accents. They're returning against you because we know, we know, we are going to reverse the worlds later. Yeah, exactly. It's good to get the good to get it to set up, and you guys actually ruined my next question, which was if there any films rude or is there any damaged by bad accents? Because there scenes. There aren't for you. So I'll just question. I think. I think that can be. I think that can be all right. Do you have anything in mind? I don't know if I have a specific way. I think it's difficult to say your film is ruined by your specific elements, right, but I guess a bad accent can be part of a bad performance and a bad performance can ruin the movie, right. So I don't know. So I have a recent example, which none of you have seen, which is a French film called back nor. It's a threader. I think the stronghold is the international name, and it's take in take place in Marseille, and Marseille has a very specific accent that's pretty well known to to most French people. And these three lead actors, none of them are neither of them are from Marseilles and they're all doing different things and it's kind of sounds a little wrong for all of them, but that's not it doesn't I don't know if I would say to ruin the movie, but I do think their performances are worse because of it. I don't think it's at least theoretically possible, and there's a famous example that it's not going to affect any of us. But I know that cuching, tiger, hidden dragon, right, is a famous example because it's a film that's in Mandarin, but the lead actors are from well, they're not native Mandarin speakers, right, they speak Cantonese, and apparently the film was very poorly received by...

...audiences in China because they sound very wrong right that they sound like they're not native speakers at all, and it sounds really bad has obviously weekend turns the differences so it sounds great to us. So maybe that's an example, but none of us that that's an excellent example. Actually. This is something where essentially everyone will be clueless. If there's a bad thing the region accent in the Norwegian movie, No one will be the visor. So that's that's actually perfect. I mean there's there's lots of films, for instance, where I give one example, there's a really famous and actually quite great the region film called Hampston from in that movie, which is about a famous denison author, they cast a Swede as in a region. He's speaking Swedish. The case they cast a same as his wife. She's speaking Danish, and then all of the rest of the cast it's the region. So they cast maximans a though obviously get a big star name in there and it's it's a really weird experience watching it. I don't remember if it tries to be a little bit in the region or not, but it's very, very obvious that in Swedish. But these are similar languages. But it's still really off that don't it was a big film abroad as a for Aund region movie. And don't. Obviously no one outside of that region would ever know the difference. So so I don't think hardy would has ever gone so far as to cast like an Italian or Spanish person as a as a French speaker in the movie. But what they do pretty often is to have people from Canada, like from Quebec, play French characters. And let me tell you, that does not fly in France because that accent is not you cannot confuse it with a French accent from France. Right. So mad men was a big example. What there's a warran character who becomes the wife of the man character in mad men. She's supposed to be French. She's clearly Canadian and I guess you can accept the reality where she's Canadian, but it's clearly not the intention. You mentioned Swedes playing Norwegians. Brought to mind to Stellin scars guard movies where he's you know, stelen scars guard is a Swede, but I can think of two Norwegian movies he was in. One was insomnia, the other was in order of disappearance, at least that was its English language title, and both times they got around this by having his character being a Swede but moved to Norway, which to me just just seems like the obvious way to go with those situations if they're not going to actually attempt an accent or they're incapable of doing an accent. You can also think of, for example, Heath Ledger and ten things I hate about you, has an Australian accent, but they put in the explanation that, oh, he's just happens to be an Australian who lives in the US. Yeah, I wish more themes would do that, would just let people have the accent and say, Oh, they just moved here. It don't even have to say it, they can just speak quite obvious. I mean the stealing Scottsh core is actually in like ten plus norwigion movies. It seems to be a reigion movie every year and it's just speaking Swedish. And it's fine because, I mean there's they're the biggest immigrant group in Norway, so that it's not weird that there's a Swede in Norway. I mean it's like having a Canadian accent in America. It's not weird that it happens. So that makes complete sense. I think the thing with Hams on this is that it's famous real world character that's being portrayed by a suite which is quite a lot other and not to take anything away from Hamson, and it is actually a very good film. So definitely recommend Hams on. Then, for any non sciandinavian speakers, this will not be a problem for you at all. But but on the topic, because you did bring up something important and I want to twist that slightly, because two of us are obviously not from an English speaking country at all and I'm pretty sure even use Al and you, Adam, you're used to people putting on fake New York accents or fake Australian accents in the American films. It's quite a common phenomena. So is it more jarring or distracting when people put on fake accents? From that specifically our mentor I off like your accent and you just know that it doesn't fit at all. It's not that it's jarring or it doesn't fit necessarily. When it comes to New York accents, which are quite common in movies, the problem is that they're often a bit exaggerated. But the biggest problem is that the stereotypical New York accent isn't actually very common. The vast majority of New Yorkers do not have the stereotypical New York accent. The vast majority of New Yorkers have a sort of either generalized American accent or they have an accent that's specific to a certain ethnicity or national origin. Another examples is the Boston accent, which is so popular in Boston set movies. I've been...

...of Boston dozens of times. It's an uncommon accent, but I feel like whenever I see a movie set in Boston, everyone sort of indulges in these accents very heavily, and it's not that the accent isn't accurate as much as that it's not realistic to how most people in Boston or New York actually speak. That's really interesting and this is actually one of the reasons why I have problem with so many Norwegian films, because this is going to be a random trivia but for those who don't know, the Norwegian language or languages, don't as they are written, don't really exist. Both of them were created in the eight hundreds, so you know there's two official languages that are written, but neither of them are really spoken, except in one of them, which is like the main version. About seventy eight percent anoations write it and it may be attempted to be spoken in certain areas of the capital. But because there are so many accents in Norway there's I believe there's well our hundred. Whenever there's movies, at least until very recently, almost everyone speaks as if they're on the news. So on the news in Norway it's normal to speak in Book Mall. So they speak very, very in a very pure way. They speak just as if they were reading from this language that is very really spoken in real life, but then in movies that are meant to be more realistic everyone speaks that way and it's really damn distracting. I don't think this is something most other countries can relate to, but it just always took me out of the films and I think that trying to do something with it now in the recent films, but at least when I was growing up this was so damn frustrating. I guess. I guess an equivalent that we would all be familiar with would be the mid Atlantic accents. You know, the accent that old Hollywood actors. So I guess that's uh, that's an example we, we would all be familiar with. Obviously, in France we don't have that, because the equivalent of what you said happened in no way in France. Is they didn't stop at just inventing a language for everyone. They talked it to everyone and put you in prison if you try to teach something else. And so now everyone speaks the same thing. Maybe sure doesn't try to do that. Not that's important to presenting people for speaking the wrong language or speaking in dialect, but it's a bit more useful. So yeah, actually, how how do you guys feel about the mid Atlantic accent? What doesn't doesn't bother you, I guess. I guess it's not so bother some to us because because it takes place in the photies and fifties, we kind of have this idea that people would sound different anyway. Probably. How do all English speakers feel about that? I have no problem with the mid Atlantic accent. Um. You're you're right. It's it's more common um in the first half of the twentieth century and I think that's a time when it really didn't expect naturalistic dialogue in movies and as a result, I think Alice I felt more accommodating to accents that work and naturalistic. The mid Atlantic accent itself is is, I think, a pleasant sounding accent. I don't think it's particularly realistic as a common accent that people had. I think probably in the forties and fifties it was extremely rare for people to have actually have that accent. It's a bit puzzling how it came about. I assume at some sort of mix of classical theatrical training and the sort of cross pollination between the British and American movie industries. But I have no problem. I I quite like the mid Atlantic accent. Yeah, I've never had any issues with a mid Atlantic accent. And to get back to the earlier question, don't think I've had any issues with Australian accents and films. I mean I don't know. There's been a few actors have tried and I don't really remember any I've had of being really terrible. I do remember one standing out as being a negative would be James Mason in age of consent, the film which Michael Powell did when he came to Australia in the late nineties sixties. But that was really earning off to me because James May some ha got such a distinctive voice that it was really strange hearing him do an accent which is similar the dniel Craig thing. So I think it was a really bad accellent self at I he has really been any American or Australian or English accents that have ever really put me off. So I think if we're talking about bad accents in our language, I would like to shout out Joseph gotten lived in the walk. It's it's quite a legendary French accent performance. It's probably not the worst because there are some aspects He gets right, but it's there are others which are completely wide and generally he should have stuck to what most Hollywood actors do. It's basically just watch an old militia Vidi film and imitate that and it's it's not the most realistic, but it's it's it's fine. I think the big problem for me with generation accents it's not that it's exaggerated or that it's all enough, but that it's very often completely wrong, simply because we're a tiny country...

...with about five point five million people. Obviously, fifty six years ago there were about half of that, so not that big on the world scene. And it seems like whenever especially classic American films would want to put on a Norwegian accent, they're speaking. Oh, they're German. So there's actually one film that it wouldn't say it's got ruined for me, but it's a film from any forty. It called, I remember, Mama by George Stevens and starting Irene Dune, and not a single person in that film sounds the region. The entire film is about an immigrant family coming from Norway and all of them sound German and best of them may sound a little bit Danish, but it's just completely after there's no similarity to the region language what Soever. And I don't think the French would have this problem, but all of our listeners who are from quite smaller countries with smaller languages might know very well what I mean, because they're not even trying to get it right. Well, actually, it's possibly that Adams all might time something you to say about this, uh, this two, but that there's one thing that's not quite attacially this episode. It's not quite an accent, but it's when none native actors actually not just trying to put an accent, try to speak the language that they're meant to be from. And I think one example for me was the thing where you have, I believe, in the region, scientists. The person who was actually dies in the very first scene and he comes to running to watch them, trying to warn them, and I rewatched that scene four or five times trying to make out what this actor was trying to say, and I never ever even got it. This version was so bad at imitating the region that the words became under gibberish. Has has since ever happened to you, Matt Yea? It has happened a lot. It's very often that someone is showing off their French as Oh they speak French, is great, and you're like yeah, I guess maybe they went to France for six months. But I think one of the worst offenders, because of the situation it's in, is a recent film, well relatively recent, allied, the Robert the Macas filment, where Brad Pitts, you know, he's playing a spy, and he has a scene which takes place in Casablanca during the war and he's supposed to pass for French or some kind of well for French Canadian, because he's Canadian, and then speaking with actual French people right and he it is like it is completely impossible to buy into the reality where they don't make it, where where they don't make him into like five seconds into it it's and the most part is like the film actually engages with the idea that he has to repress his accents and stuff. But no, no, no, it just doesn't work. What about the youth? Saw and Adam and don't know that most people will speak English. I know there's some debon theese films, for instance, where people have some really weird American accents, occasionalist. I'm not sure if you've ever experienced it or or not. The only thing I can think of really is Peter Laurie. Laurie's first English language movie was the man who knew too much. The first version of it from the thirties Um and famously he didn't speak any English at all the time. So he learned his line sponetically and it works because he's playing, you know, a dangerous, shifty character and you know, obviously Lori eventually learned English and when to speak it fluently. He did move to the US, but he's a man who never lost his distinctive accent and I think his distinctive accent was was a huge asset to him in his career. Although it did lead to a lot of type casting, it became a distinctive part of his persona. But, but that's really the only example I can think of of someone speaking English in a movie with without actually knowing English. Oh I have another one that's trying to remember her name. Um, I have one also. Should I jump in? Yeah, I found it. Found now you might have the same movie. It's your movie, rapture. No, no, okay, okay, very good. So this is obviously one of the forums that C and Forum's favorite films, rapture by John Gillerman, and of course we've done an episode on John Gillerman here before as well. But in that film a Partitzia Gotti, did not actually speak English at all. So this is a French actor, ironically in a film set in France. So this is this is one of those movies you're gonna talk about a little bit later where you have an English or American cast pretending to be French. But here you have a French actor in that mix and she can't speak English and she also had to learn retting phonetically. And in this case it it does work, but it...

...could be a little bit distracting. It's was a little bit distracting on the first viewing, but seeing how it's set in front, it does get in the work. What was your soul the example that's sprung to mind for me about an actor learning English phonetically is Bella Aghosie in the original nine and Thirties Dracula film, and he's got this very slow and very deliberate way of speaking which has just become such a tradition passed it over the years for the way that Vampire's talk. But of course it wasn't like that in the bramstocker novel and the reason why it was was because, as far in a way, he was learning his line s phonetically. So in that case it actually helped the film because I'd say his performance and Dwight fries performances are the main things the film has going for it. I mean, rewatch these days it's not a particularly I mean it's a good, pismomaticularly great horror film for the era, but definitely bell the ghost's performance, and they're so iconic and it's slow delivery because he's saying a line sphetically. Is just amazing. Yeah, and I think that goes back to the question of Versammlit to it right. It works for Peter Lowy and for better Lugoci, because that the accent works with the character. What it's swannge. It's mysterious, it's unsettling. It just doesn't work when you're trying to be more grounded. I suppose well, that that's a good point, but I just want to say that I can't believe it didn't know better. It goes and learned its line sthetically and that's the reason why that notorious accent was great and that's just an incredible trivia. It's all that I probably should have known a long time ago that. It's absolutely amazing. Thank you. Actually, I'm just done a little bit of research online because I thought, well, I should check this out before the episode gets public published, and there is societe time here, which is reckoning that when he did start working in the United States, but the guys he didn't speak any English, but that was in a plan that he did not in the Dracula Film. So I'm not sure. There's just one way something I've looked at. Maybe it's not true, but he is way of talking. His manner of talking a last is suddenly that's come from him learning English phonamically pretty close and this time it would probably be fairly close together as well. So it probably wouldn't be at the native speaker level in n one. So regardless, thank you so much for that insight self and I was not actually gonna talk about this because you were talking to talk about fake accents today. But what are some actors that actually use very heavy accents and most of their films or work? I mean one of the first people I thought of right the way we started talking about Peter Laurie. It was rehearsal. Was Not quite an actor, but obvious he narrates it's films and his distinct German accent is an intrinsical part of all of his English language work. So what are some other people that comes to your mind that put on these accents and what excent does does it work? Well, I mentioned militia earlier. I mean the guy spent what five years in Hollywood? I'm pretty sure the accent was put on by by year five or something, because, because, because I doubt his accent was still that's that's strong. And I think now accents, like French people specifically, we, when speaking English, are very self conscious about her accent as a as a rule right. So you can see with someone like Mat that her accent is he she doesn't do the militia anything right. In her first few movies in English it was very strong, but now it's much, much lighter. Its still there, obvious step it not as strong. So I guess I think it's it's a thing that was more common earlier when you would expect an actor to have a strong personality that they would bring to every movie, whereas now we want actors to be more comedians to a certain extent, and so we are less, I think, tolerant in general of accents. So I think it happens less. But vonahrzo is a great example. I'm not sure that accents fade with time. Not, not in all cases. You know, I'm not too familiar with Maurice Chevalier's Um film performances, but Hertzog is a good example of someone who's accent, I think, is I mean the same. Obviously he's he's acting, at least not in the conventional sense, unless his performances, you know he's playing himself, which which is a performance to an extent. But I think his accent has been more or less consistent when he's been speaking English and in movies going back forty or more years. I imagine some people's accents fade with time, but I just think of my father has been living in the US for fifty years and his accent hasn't changed a lot at all. Yeah, I think I did see an interview of sho a year later life where he did not...

...sound the same point. But but you know, some people do keep the accent even even with living form a provoding period of time in the country. The only example that really springs to mind offhand of a very distinctive accident which has been carried throughout an actor's career is actually an English accent. So I don't know how all this fits into it, but Michael Caine's cockney accent is very distinctive. Whenever I hear Michael Caine in a film, I know it's Michael Caine and that's the one thing about him that has a really changed over time, except in the side of house rules. But you know, generally he's got a very distinctive way of talking and he pretty much always talks like that and it's just great because he is a very eloquent speaker and he's able to play these amazing parts. I think there are a lot of actors have sort of distinctive voices. Michael Keines is obviously a notable one, but you know, carried grant is another way. We mentioned the mid Atlantic accent earlier, that that was sort of a hallmark of carry grant for the entire film career. Now it might not even be accent necessarily what we're talking about. You know, I think of a guy like Christopher Walkin, whose voice is famously distinctive. It's not an accent that I associate with any any regions. Certainly, I mean he's from New York, but it's not a New York accent. Just has a very distinctive way of speaking and that's become sort of iconic and very closely associated with him. Yeah, I was about to say it's mostly older actors, what because I also thought James Stewart's but Christopher Walken is contemporary enough I suppose mcilcaine to another example, which is not so much a voice like working, but it is an accent, is how I tell right. I don't think I've seen how Vyk I tell you a thing where he didn't have his New York accents, right, I think it's New York. And the piano does he have? Does he do an accent? Because I guess the very big example would be the last tentation of class, right, which is a famously it's very it's very interesting case, right, because we are very used to films that should be in a dead language, right, in Latin or in Greek or in something, to have people do posh British accents, right, that's that's that's usually the way Hollywood goes about it, and I guess it's fine because obviously you can't expect them to have people speaking in Latin, so they might as well do that. But so it's so jarring to have how the Gitel play, I think he plays John the Baptists, or I don't remember, but one of the major characters write in the vest temptation of Christ, and have this very recognizable, very contemporary New York accents. I wonder I'm wondering actually what? What did you guys think about that? I assume you've all seen it. I haven't seen the last entation of crossed in like Lace Fifteen, maybe twenty years. I can't recall anything about the accents off hand. I did have an interesting example, though, of an act playing a role, or he should have an act said it. Does it have an accident? It is a bit weird. And that voyage of the damned, which is the nineteen seventies film, and you've got Malcolm McDowell as this German character called Gunta and he just talks with a normal British accent and it's just really weird. Everybody calls him Guntro and everything and he doesn't sound German at all. Well integrated. Well, you know, the Harvard kitel character in the sentation of Christ didn't bother me particularly, but I understand why people have a problem with it. And it's not so much that Rick Kitel is doing his his native accent, it's that it's inconsistent with the other characters and that can become occasionally problematic. Understand why. You know, those sort of movies set in the past have all British accents. Sometimes it's ridiculous but it says I think at least it's internally consistent. A movie like the death of Stalin, which is not internally consistent, it doesn't matter because it's a comedy. But to take an example of where I think it was done six essimally a movie like l a confidential or you have one Australian and one New Zealand actor, Pierce and Russell Crowe. They had gone with their native accents, while everyone else in the movie has an American accent. It would have sounded ridiculous that that was a situation where it's sort of a mended that that they put on an American accent. Another examples is Gorky Park. If anyone remembers that movie from the early eighties, everyone in that movie is every actor in that movie is English, but they're playing Russians, so they're going with their English accents. The only exception is William hurt. He's an American playing a Russian and he adopts an English accent for that role, which at first thought was was insane, but it made sense because it was being consistent with everyone else. So I think for those those dramas it's important to have a sort of consistency across the cast. Either consistency use. Its smartly right to have someone who, if you have someone with American accents, maybe they're from another region in whatever historical setting it is right. Yeah,...

...exactly, and that's not an uncommon way of doing it, especially if you think about big epics where you know, there's battles and they travel the world, etcetera, and then you will suddenly have these people from this fictional, fantasy region. It has a bit of an Italian accent, but I do think that we can actually skip a couple of my original questionsaire and actually dives straight into films set in other countries where actors are supposed to speak, say, Russian, French, whichever, but they speak English, because that kind of worms is open. Now we're right in it. And as this conversation in so many ways started due to the house of crupture, because all of us, or some of us, talking about how well does it work? One person was unfortunately not here, because we we love, I would love to have a much stronger opinion on this. Got Furious, or at least quite an knowed that they're still doing this, that there still are these films set in, in this case Italy, with people speaking English with Italian accent, and that Hollywood is so lazy that they still do this. Is that a sentiment you share? Is this idea of people speaking English in place of speaking Latin and Italian and outstate and practice a bit of a relic from the classic era, or does it still work? Yeah, it annoys me tremendously. I'm genuinely there are films, there are exceptions, right, there are films that I like even though they do this. Medeus is always the big example I site. But it's generally a good way to put me in the bad mood to have a film that's supposed to be where where people are not speaking the language they should be. And it's not only Hollywood that does this. Right, the French them industry also occasionally does this, and it annoys me or not, I'm glad we have a really strong opinion. What about you, Adam? I'm just a bit confused match you. Could you clarify? Is the problem with armadas that actors are not speaking, you know, German, or that they're not attempting a German accent when they're speaking English? Okay, you have to ask that question. My problem is they're not speaking German, or actually Italian for some of them. But yeah, I do think it's even worse when they do accents, right, because if you have the character speaking in English when they're all supposed to be, say, Italians, well, I guess you're saying your language is an abstruction, right. It's like in Spartacus, where we can't have everyone speaking Latin. So everyone is speaking in English, just accepted. And in that case I think you should not have the actors doing accents on top of that, because it's just contradictory, because the point, the point of accents, is to feel real. If you're putting on an accent, is because you're trying to imitate the accent that this person would have. That's nonsensical if you are speaking in a language that this person wouldn't be speaking anyway. So, yeah, my my issue is with the language, not with well, it's. It's with both, but it's it's even worse if you add accents on top of it. And I think, I mean it doesn't do that, which I think is it's a lit bit better for it. Yeah, I think we're coming face to face of the realities of of the industry, which is that a lot of the Times the industry is going to just they're just always going to make a movie in the language that's native to where the industry is located. Hollywood movies are just there. They're going to be in English. I mean they might have a few snatches of dialogue in a foreign language, but they're going to be in English. It's unfortunate that so many movie audiences hate subtitles and they want either dubbing or they want people speaking in their own native language, and I understand people being annoyed by it. I myself I'm not so now we have two sides of the conversation. I will place myself slightly closer to mature here, but also distinguished myself a little bit. So, like you mentioned at the very beginning of this episode, I do have a slight problem with films that do this, because there is that added layer of separation. you do wonder like, was it necessary to do this? There is issues with just keeping up appearances of this being said in another country that I can not never really get completely over in my mind, but I usually just try to go along for the right they don't actually mind if they put on accents. I understand not just points completely, and it makes logical sense, though I do think this ties back into the what we talked about with presentation of the Christ and all these historical movies that are meant to be in Latin where they put on English accents and then be kind of just accept Oh, okay, okay, English accents or the posh English accents sounds antiquated to us. We think this is how people spoke in this older era or, you know, this is the language of theater, etceter about every we want to...

...reasoning, you want to put this has just become something that we associate with this world and, for instance, an Italian accent is something we will associate with Italy. So it's almost a little bit, at least to me, when they do this, as if we're kind of going into this story a bit like we would say, go into a novel, which is like Oh, we would love to have this in the real language, but because we don't want to have subtitles, like we have translated it for you, kind of thing, and I can buy into that allusion to an extent. I don't think it's worse than when they do it in regular actions and in fact, in some ways it can be a little bit uh, a little bit better. For me, you know, that will depend on the movement, will depend on how consistent the accents are, because, at least in the House of Cucy, I didn't necessarily think the accents were that consistent across all of the actors. But we say it sold for last because you know, he's the biggest defender of how of good is so soul. How do you feel about films set in different countries? There are people are putting others and just really make it clear that this is happening in Italy? I don't mind it at all. I mean that it sounds maybe a bit shortsighted to say after everything that you guys have said, but yeah, I bind into the illusion the whole way. It's the reality that the film creates. It's just like with an older film. I'm not going to complain about bad special effects, so I'm not going to complain about bad madd a paintings in the background. I just excepted as part of the film's reality and it doesn't annoy me at all and I don't think it's even necessarily a bad thing because you look at the film as an industry and you can't just make a film with a few thousand dollars in the bank. You need to have investors, you need people to invest in the film and need just be marketable. So if Ridley Scott has this great vision as a director and anyway you can get financing is to make his film in English, I'd say yeah, fine, go ahead. You know, every single time I'm a big fan of Ridley Scott, but it goes for pretty much, you know, any director. I think it's going to help him get the project off the ground. That's fine. It's a film, it's a narrative film, it's not a documentary. It's creating its own reality. Just except buy into it. It's not such a big problem. I agree with so. I don't love how some Gucci like he does, but I have no problem with the accent Um. I want to know the accents are, are consistent and that I think every character has as an Italian accent. So read the criticism. I'm guessing the criticism is that it sounds exaggerated or fake, and I don't doubt that it does, but it's also it's it's an over the top movie. It's it's meant to be ridiculous. It is very much sort of an opera Buffa, you know, a mixture of of sort of playing force. So if if jared letter wants to put on this ridiculous accent, I have no problem with it. I think actually it fits the movie rather well. See, I disagree there because I think the accents are not consistent with each other at all in that film and in fact general. I think that's the problem, that that's the main problem I have the film, not the accents, but the fact that you have three main characters essentially, and they to me, they are all in widely different movies. Adam driver is in a prestige drama about a young man who has to face the legacy of his family. Right Lady Gaga is in this height very heightened drama about this woman who comes into this kind of crazy world and adapts to it in her way. And then jared letto is in a Super Mario movie. I think he's in a cartoon essentially. That that that's where he is. He is literally doing the it's Ami Mario Accents. There's no other way to say so I don't have an issue with like lady gagas accents per se. She it's it's heightened, but that's fine. If that's what the film wants to do, that's fine. I don't have an issue with Adam driver's accent either, in the sense that, again, if you want to do that movie, I don't love it, but it's a choice right. But to me the problem with the film is that it doesn't make a clear choice. Well, I think personally the only choice that doesn't make for me is jared letto. I'm not sure exactly what was going on with that performance because it's very comical. I don't know if it was antenemous comic relief or not. But look, I think Adam driver and Lady Gaga were spot on the whole way. I didn't find any faults with their accents and I brought into it and I didn't really really mind that they've got different things going on, because it basically the film starts off as this towel of later Gaga, as this gold digger trying to get into the family.

Then the film evolves to eventually become about the Adam driver character and he basically ends up, you know, lusting for the very things that she is initially after herself to begin off with, and it goes from being this gold digger tale to being the very similar to the Godfather type of drama with, like you said, about the family legacy and just the casting Albert she and who are there. I just thought it was amazing in that sense, because the film gave me vibes that were very similar to the Godfather. Do you think that the Godfather didn't have jared let her doing commoral performance? But otherwise I thought it was very similar to the Godfather. He in the best possible way. That's a really good comparison. I was thinking about the Godfather, Oh dem, and also thinking about the boot fellers a little bit with this elaborate set up too. But you also, you know, focus on his family and it's kind of really heightened sense of being in in this all of this extravagance, and I do actually think that this is the level where the film really works well. It it really hits all of those milestones in terms of the gray family epic and it has, you know, it's not really a crime film, it really feels like a crime film throughout. I mean there's some seed deer elements is, to start, a little bit of a foreshadowing of a very, very clear, clear crime. But it really feels a bit like a Mafia film it it really has that that aura of the family dynasty and I do think that that's one of the places it really succeeds. What I will say is that I also thought the accents were a bit all over the place in terms of just how the various actors sounded, for instance, and Jeremy Irons sounds completely different from everyone else, essentially, and I did actually think Lenino has slipped in and out of the accent a little bit. But I won't take too much away from this. Actually it's very, very well crafted film and I actually thought the performances were quite spotled too. I mean I even enjoyed there leto. I actually thought he really went for it. It was an enjoyable comic relief character and I think that it was intentional, at least I hope it was intentional. And would you say, Chris, would you say house of Gucci is a pulpy film, because I think, I think that's what Lady Gaga is going for, for like a pulp crime story. But it's the two and two hours and thirty minutes films about. I don't know. I think it's very same serious the way with this comet to exit. See that. That's why I didn't like it. I think that's a clash of tunes there between the performance of some of the performances and the direction. I mean the camp. I'm not sure I would actually equate her a little bit too part of good fellows, you know, where you have doing cocaine and dreaming at each other and all of that heightened the extremity. I think it went for a similar kind of energy. I thought it mostly worked. So I wouldn't say lady argument for full camp. She went a little bit higher than Adam driver. Certainly I could maybe see that lady Gaga and dared leto would fit into a slightly different movie than that I'm driving, but I think that Adam driver, I actually accentriate's quite a bit as well. I mean you have the scenes especially towards the average, that the photoshoot, for instance, or is uh or he's just really going forward the extravaganza himself. I think the fact that he's acting a little differently is because it is different. It's meant to be a very shy and the introverted character, and I do think that the difference of characteristics between him and Lady Gaga Works. Doesn't think that once his person, his character, changes and develops, he also enters that more heightened state of the film, kind of showing that he is escalating the same level as the other good she is? The vibe that I mostly got from the film was one of American Hustle, although that basically comes down to me watching the trailer and the trailer reminded me a lot of American hustles. So there's like a bit of comedy in there, but it's actually quite serious and it's all these different criminal and underhanded elements at play. And I guess he also got the castling of Jack Houston, who was awesome in American Hustle and also awesome and quite a people to role in house of good sheet, not one of the five main players, but definitely one of the most interesting ones as someone who really ends up being quite important in Adam driver's life, even though he seems like a very supporting character at first. Well, I guess the difference to me with good fatters is that in good fatters, the way Scott says it do acts. It's also goes with the energy. Right, you mentioned the cane and all that.

It's a very it's it has very flashy direction. Might I think? I think house of Gucci is again the impression I get from it. Visually, it's very dark. It's it's not. I said pulp, by the way. I didn't say camp because I don't exactly know what camp is. I don't have a good grasp pulp about the description. Sorry about that. Yeah, I just don't have a good grasp on what exactly is camped. So so pulp is is I'm more comfortable with. I don't think we de Scott is trying to do something pulp. At least that's not the feeling I get, and it's that disconnect that that bothers me in the film. And one thing I would say about what Sault said earlier about, you know, he has to make a movie with American actors, with big stars. That's just a commercial reality. That's fine, but it's not my problem. I guess right. It's like if if you if you make a film with a lot of bad jokes and you say, Oh, I have to have bad jokes because that's what people like vain, but it's not without eight aches. So that's not my problem. And also I would point out that in Gloria's bastards did hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office while being two thirds subtitled. So it is possible, well, to defend the film sold. Yes, I would like to defend the film, but I don't know like really defend against what. But she was saying if he's reckon, it's not his problem, and I guess, you know, that's the way that other people must field also because there have been a lot of complaints in there about the accents in the house of Gucci. It's on the radio all the time, people talking about everybody's saying. That's why, lady Garga, I didn't get the Oscar nomination. It's been a real big talking point. So you know, obviously for some people there's an issue. I guess I just feel, going back to what I said much earlier, it's a petty criticism. I don't think it's something that really should take away from a film. If if you step into the film except it's reality, if you meet the film halfway, I don't think it's something that should be a problem, but I guess if you're not able to, well, I guess you know it's just gonna make sell. It's a great cinema because I just think it's fantastically written film. It's nice and stylishion there. I've got that great blondie song pumping away in there and you've got some really fantastic befowards as jared letter aside, once you get past the accents, and not even lady Gagan Adam drivers. Absolutely love Alpacino in the film. I think it's one of his best performances he's given in years. Are probably his best performance since ocean's thirteen. So in fifteen years I don't think I've seen such a strong Turd from Alpaccino, and that includes the Irishman, because I didn't think it was actually amazing on that one. You know, actually, lastly, agree with that. So I think Alpaccino is excellent in how it's a good ship. I do want to be clear that I did not like it nearly as much as I saw that. It's a good film. And what I would say about the own issues that Mattria is bringing you up as being bigger than the accent issue, I can see it. I think it's it might affected a little bit from me, but at least what I would say is that I do actually think it went through a hectic atmosphere. I do think it did want to be larger than life. It didn't do think it did want to immerse us in this luxury and that one of the issues is that it perhaps you mentioned the American hostels. So I think it's not trying to be a very similar film. I don't think it quite managed that level of essentially replicating the success formula of Scorseseo Coppola, but I do think it actually did aim for being something bigger than life. I do think some of the bigger than life accents fit into that and therefore didn't distract and I do think there's a lot of really great acting in it. But to get a little bit more technical again and to pull the discussion a little bit away from how the good, she will also building a little bit on what you've been saying. One thing that is very interesting in how the good is that, despite the fact that everyone is speaking English with an Italian accent, you do you have these moments where they actually speak Italian. For instance, you have the early scene where Patricia, or lady Gogga's character, walks into her father's company and all of the men working they're essentially cat calling her and all of them are speaking in Italian. You also have a scene where Lady Gaga is speaking in Italian to her main and read various uh, small verge here and there. I actually watched the film with English sub titles and I think like every few minutes there would be this caption which would say speaking in Italian. So I would love to hear your opinion on how you feel about this. Is, especially you ma, like, does this add even more to the inconsistency for you? Really you're not just taking it so far that you know, they're not just speaking in regular English accents, they're putting on Italian accents and now they're also throwing in Italian verge, making it clear in this reality Italians still exists. It doesn't...

...bother even more about your well, yeah, it's like the Cherry on top. It's it's just even more inconsistency and, yeah, nonsensical again. It's it's if it's in a film that's really heightened, that fine, but if it's in a film that's supposed to be taking place in the world that's vaguely resembles own. It bothers me actually really scouted this twice last year because in the last duel, which is a family like more than house of Gucci, you know, it's taking place in medieval farms and it's Matt Damon and all that, they are doing accents, but you have people singing French songs in the background and that that that doesn't annoy me, and I think the worst offender of this for me would be a lot of world war two movies, but specifically Shinder's list. You know, this is only English, of course, but the only German you hear is when you have soldiers kind of ordering the people around and saying the stuff you always hear, which now outside Spitter, all of that stuff. I grew up part in Germany, so I have a certain attachment to the German language and it is really annoying to me that when the German characters are being human beings in the movie, they're speaking in English, but when the when they're just kind of monsters, which, to be fair, that we're doing monstrous things of justive it when they're portrayed purely as as doing those they're speaking in German and that's that is really, really annoying to me. It's it's an odd decision to have a movie where the same character is is switching language and it's not supposed to be a representation of bilingualism. It's representation that speaking German but actually they're speaking English, or they're speaking Italian but actually they're speaking English. Um, that's a very unusual choice. I can't say I remember it in Schindler's list. Um particularly notice it in house of Gucci. But but the example that comes most to mind is Um unfred October, another submarine movie. That's that's one where the Russian submarine in the movie, they all begin speaking Russian. Even Sean Connery is is speaking Russian, I assume, dreadfully, and then about ten minutes into the movie they have a very distinctive switch to English, which which is kind of surprising and it's just it's just puzzling. It's it's pointless. I don't know why they just don't have them all speaking English from the beginning, with or without a Russian accent. It would be better than having this good switch where everyone is suddenly speaking Russian and switches to English. But so I've never seen the hunt for October, but I've heard of this moment and in theory, to me it sounds great because I think you're acknowledging the artificiality of the language. Maybe you could do without the Russian into but I think it's a way to say, yes, we know they should be speaking Russian, but we're not going to do this whole movie in Russion. So there you go. At least there's a certain consistency to it that I think, Atast in theory, I appreciate what can say. I think that's a mistake to acknowledge that artificiality, at least at least in a movie that's that's kind of a serious one, like like going for in October. In terms of characters switching between languages, that's usually not a problem with me because as a film goer trying to meet the movie halfway, except its reality, are usually just assuming, as characters are bi lingual, especially if they're in the business world and they need to be speaking English to communicate, or when they first meet Adam driver and lady Garga at the Party. You know what language people are going to speak. English. Is a fairly common language form, you know, want of a better terms, so I don't really that hard to buy into the fat that they might speak English in some parts and Italian at other parts. The shouldn't this list, example. That is a criticism that I have heard over the years. It's one of those ones where I go petty criticism. I don't know. Look, it's been a few years since I've seen Schindler's list, so I don't remember the specifics in detail, but I have heard the criticism a lot. I can't remember off how the nationality here or the Jews in Schindler's List and whether all the Jews would actually or be German, whether it would be like from Poland, the mixture of other places, because that could explain things also. But I don't really have a problem with it. I don't think it really subtracts from the film too much. I mean, yes, it does make the German character seem a bit more monstrous, but I don't think it does anything against the German language, anything against Germans per same. I mean I have German heritage and I didn't really feel anything's really done wrong by that. And Yeah, look, I guess it could be. I yet statistic decision and any reasons still, but did this was in order to make the Germans more frighting, and it's really bad to...

...the films worth a zero out of ten. I don't know. If you're going to be a petty like that, then maybe I'm not saying that you'd give it a zero out of ten. But I have had a lot of criticism thrown towards himless list over the years. It's one of those films, like Vertigo or cities in pain or cause a blanket, that people like to attack for whatever reason, because it's offer good to one of the ten or twenty best of all time, and I guess just with a lot of criticisms like that, I've just come to deflect that, I guess over the years and I suppose we've got a film that's strong enough. Well, it's good enough for the bad things don't really make that much of a problem. I mean that might even be a good future podcast topic, you know, flawed masterpieces. Everyone's where the actually he is something bad which doesn't work, but still a top ten, on top twenty film for you, because there's probably quite a few films I can think of like that. I've actually got issues in there. They aren't perfect films, but they're just such an overwhelming experience that something like that doesn't matter. So maybe that's what I feel about accidents in general, that yes, sometimes it can be distracting, sometimes it can take away from the film, but if the film itself is good enough, which for Shinders left, definitely, perhaps you're good. Yes, I would say. Also, it doesn't actually affect my experience of it that much. I'll actually argue as even more extreme cases. So I would say that sinner's list might actually have been weaker if some of these army commands weren't in Uh Durman, or at the very at least, I would argue that general audiences might have been taken out of the film more if they were shouting command in English, because we have been trained to know what these commands are. I mean that's probably why they were chosen to be there. When you see German films, when you engage with you know this history of World War Two, those verds are burned into our mind and if they were shouting regular English commands, I don't think they would have been as effective or believable. So I've actually said that in some cases putting in some of the verge will work, and with world or two films in particular, I think that not doing it might actually have been a bigger negative. Yeah, but you're getting it exactly. My problem with it, Chris, is with essentialized only wood has essentialized the German language as being the language of baked orders, which, okay, there's you know that that is what terrible and that that's okay that, but it's not like they were the only it's not like it's the only language where that has been done. Right. I was watching a Bollywood movie recently and I was realizing that in Indian cinema British officers are basically the equivalent of the Nazi officers in Western cinema, which is fair enough, but the way in which we've made it so, as you say, you you would know a general audience wouldn't buy a German soldiers saying go faster right or something like that. I think it's the project. I think that's the problem, but I also just generally do liketion this list for a lot of reasons, but it's that's a subject for another podcast. Yeah, fair enough. I was mostly just talking about keeping up the illusion rather than making a moral claim there. I would say that just simple in terms of keeping up the illusion. I think that using those German words made more sense. But yeah, I think that what you're bringing up is interesting for a very different podcast than we might have a lot to talk about there if we ever do that episode. In fact, as Adam mentioned in the chats, we actually had this debate when we did the Oscars episode. So you can go if you're curious listener, you can go back in and find that episode excellent. So yes, please do that. So to change the topic a little bit, because you mentioned the sperioits, that is not just the US that does it. You said that France does it too. And and for a last of me, I can't really remember burr any French movies that take place in a different country. There must be some, and I've seen a couple of German films that do it. It was in a couple of Japanese films that do it, but it's not really, at least on the films I've seen. It's not a common trend in the same way it is in American and British films? Would you agree with that or is there actually quite a lot of films that does this? They just don't come through the general audiences when I think it's the kind of thing you generally do in films that are meant for a mainstream audience. Right. It's not so much in a house films which are genuinely not going to put themselves in the situation where they have to to do that. So I think it's the kind of films that just travel less. But I think everyone does it. It's just a question of do you have a film industry that's big enough that you're doing films that are set in other countries? And Fair enough here, because like at least for generations, and I can't unless it's a Plu or based on a play, which is is a really...

...obvious connection. I don't think we tend to do films set in other countries where we speak Norwegian. So it's it's always a really interesting phenomena, but I guess maybe it's more common elsewhere in bigger industries and we just don't see these films. Because my next question was why is us so drawn to these kinds of films? But maybe that's a misguided question that maybe it's simply, like you said, that these films don't export as well to art house audiences. Well, I think the question of accents is more key in in American cinema because because it has this kind of dominant position and because English has this kind of worldwide language position, and also Hollywood is so dominant, that you have this phenomenon of British actors and Australian actors and New Zealand Actors, South African and Etcetera. They're all learning how to do an American accent because they know that they can reach a global audience and become major stance by playing in American movies, but for that they might have to learn how to do an American accent. And so it is so common for Stas from from the from these countries to be very good artists, good enough at doing at least an American accent, where whereas it's it's more rare of far American actors to be very good at doing accents from from these countries because they just don't have the needed to. Yeah that that's a great point mat here, and I think we're nearing the end of an episode. I only have two questions left. The first all will probably a coot one, or maybe not, based a conversation we've had. So do you hope that films where actors pretend to be speaking a different language when these people on an English accent, are phased out, or do you just accept this? You know, as long as the general audiences refused to read subtitles, I don't think my my response will be any surprise. I think this sti being keeping what what I've said so far in the episode. But but I don't care, not really Um tend to be accepting of the filmmakers trying to present, or, if not everything they're trying to present, at least the world they're trying to construct. I'm willing to take that journey with them. So this is not something I particularly hope for or care about a well, similarly, it won't be a surprise that I say that I hope it slowly disappears. Now I don't want to sound like I want to limit what artists can do right, but in the context of a film that again is supposed to be taking place in the world that is similar to ours, that is not super heightened. I hope it goes less common, and I think the reasons it might be because it might become less common because I think Netflix and other streaming services have shown that audiences are more tolerant to subtitles than maybe producers previously thought, at least I hope so. I think. I think just generally has a globalization of them culture that, especially through streaming services, might go in that direction at this at this I actually don't think the Netflix argument holds much water, because not so much the films that net fix spies, but the netflix originals. A lot of those which are originals that are made in non English speaking countries are actually at least on Netflix, with both the original language and an English dub available, as well as dubbs in Italian and French and German and all these other languages. So netflix has actually done a lot of dumb movies at the moment. Most international ones you'll see which has got the Netflix logo because it's a Netflix release, will actually have dubs attached to it. And I've got a controversial opinion. I actually don't think dubbing is the worst thing in the world. I know as a hard core cinephile. They're meant to absolutely hate dubbing and it will be never it would never be my preference to watch a film dubbed, but I think films should be available dubbed because it exposes a larger audience to the film and if the audience likes the film enough, maybe they will actually try and rewatch the next time with subtitles, and may will switch it over the subtitles the whole way through. But by actually having it in there in a dubbed form you've got the ability to reach out to other audiences and get more people involved and get people watching it who just wouldn't watch it because there's subtitles on it. And I know there's a terrible bias against subtitles and I think the only way you can do that is to buy making foreign language films more accessible so that people have got the option to say, well, actually, I'm enduring this so much I actually want to hear this in the original language or I'm tired of hearing these fake actors. Actually want to hear it with the actual original actors doing it. So the language issue, yeah, I've got no problem with it. I'm happy for good directors like Ridley...

Scott to keep making films in the English language when there's certain other countries. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. As I said before, you choose to buy into the film's reality and, like Adam said now, it's something which I don't really care about that much. As the film go it's not the number one issues for me. But controversially, I would actually lean towards. Controversially, I'd actually lean towards making films more available in English just to penetrate the market more, get people actually watching these films, give them the opportunity need to see them when they wouldn't see them otherwise, and maybe who those will convert some people over and you actually get them to watch it properly once they've got through a few dug films and realize how good they are. Well, dubbing is another subject entirely, I would say. I think it's I don't know about Chris and I don't know how Chrispinns about it, but I think it's it's generally very different how native English speakers who are simified feel about it. They generally tend to be more tolerant of dubs. But I think for people who who did who are not native English speakers. It is such a rite of passage to to start watching films subtitled, right, because dubbing is the mainstream. But I guess not, not for someone like Chris Right, because no way to others doesn't have a big dubbing industry. But informance, if you're not living in Paris and you're going to a cinema seeing the next big marven movie, it's going to be dubbed. That that's just the reality. So it's kind of unthinkable for a French cilified to to be tolerant of dubbing. I mean, maybe I'm an exact aating, but yeah, it is. It's it's maybe a subject for another episode. Oh, it will be. I've pitched this episode already, so hopefully will get the dubbing episode on the way. Um, this business, it's been a lot of negativity in this episode, not throwing in the shade that, and think you said them that you argued quite passionately, and thank you too, so for your very passionate support of dubbing. I think you need to join the dubbing episode and I think that will be absolutely amazing and even be interesting to see, like what are the best films of this kind that just truly worked for you. So I don't know if I have a movie that was great because of the accents, but I have an example of a great use of an actor doing different accents and that being a great use, and that's in Paris Texas. I think Natasha Kinsky in the climactic scene right of Paris Texas. I think in the first part of it she is doing a very artificial well, it doesn't come off as artificial, but we understand later that it is accent, and then later when she's being more natural and more truthful, she's speaking in, I think, her native accent. So I think that's I guess that would be my example of an actor, at least a performance, being enhanced by the use of makes sense. Okay, I've got a fun example of a film that's helped by having a good accent in there. The film is lepricorn three, yes, the horror film in the lepricorn horror franchise that's started off with the Jennifer Anderson Film. The first two films in the Lepricorn Franchise are pretty crop, but the third ones actually quite decent. It's the most comical one. It takes place in Las Vegas rather than taking place in, you know, the back sheds somewhere around him. So it's really cool setting. But the most fun thing about it is the guy gets attacked by the leprical one starts thirding into a lepricorn and as he does, he likes sprouts for everything, and he starts talking uncontrollably in a very genuine Irish accent at the same time, and it's absolutely delightful. It's a really fun film. Most libercorn films are really terrible, but lepricorn three and the guy plays the lepricorn has said in himself it's the best fool of the franchise. It really is. It's a great it's a great use of an Irish accent to try and make a film a bit more interesting. Uh, you know, lepricn three is is where this episode was always headed, wasn't it? I can't say I've seen it myself, but I'll try to answer your question in my own way. I can't think of a movie that I thought was great because actors in a particularly convincing French or Italian or Russian accent. I think that there has become a very very good at this, or maybe, more accurately, that movie production has invested a lot in dialect coaches who have been very successful with actors. I think convincing accents have become more common. But I'M gonna take your question and turn it a little bit to this side and say that I can think of some great performances that are great...

...partially not because of accent per se, but because of someone's particular way of speaking. I look this up and the technical term for this is ideo elect, the way someone intones their voice, not because of some sort of geographic or regional origin. Someone brought up Jimmy Stewart earlier. That's a great example. Jimmy strous from Pennsylvania. He doesn't have a Pennsylvania accent, he just is a very distinctive way of speaking. I can think of actors who have adopted a distinctive way of speaking for a role and it's really worked. Um. What comes to mind, for example, is Daniel Day Lewis in in a couple of his his roles. Certainly there will be blood. Is Not an accent. He's doing John Houston's voice. that the film director John Houston's voice, and he's using it very well to to build this sort of Macho, sinister authoritarian character. Another example is is heath ledger, who in broke back mountain, who is doing an accent. He's doing a Western accent, particular type of accent where he's he's sort of following his words and the way he speaks really relates well to his character as someone who is difficulty expressing himself. But those are examples of where an actor has adopted particular way of speaking for a role that I think has been enormously successful to the role and to the movie. Yeah, I'll just get entirely on board on down there Luis especially there will be a blood. I think that's a regards maybe called an accent or not. That is phenomenal use of altering your real voice to deliver a great performance and just that's the very final question that in the episode. What are some of your favorite films that are shot in English with the actors pretending to be speaking a different language? I think you but you mentioned about Dale's previously. Are there any other films like that that actually held up? Despite doing what appears to be one of your most hated at thieves, when, if we're discounting comedies, but because otherwise my answer would be life of Brian. My other example is actually one that's not in English, Fitz Cando Talk Film where everyone is speaking in German, even though no one should be speaking in German. I mean Cado, I think, was Irish, and anyway it's critically in that movie. Anyway, no one should be speaking in German, but I guess I don't mind it that much. Of Him, I do know that is such a wight example. That would actually be my favorite pick as well. I completely forgotten that he was not meant to be during the Austrian so that's that's fantastic. I didn't know that. Now I know that actually have one film or my top hundred, that is short but different language is intended to be, because I really didn't think I had one. So thank you so much for that, Mat yea. If we're talking about different languages rather than different accents, the Diet of the Jackal is an awesome film and it's not taking place in English speaking language, but we've got tons of characters are speaking English, so I would definitely recommend that. I also think cabaret is an excellent film. The lies and Maneli of Fossy film from two and that's an English language film. There are some accidents in there, but it just absolutely works perfectly. It's one of my all time favorite films. There are so many movies that are great even without attempting an accent. Think of a movie like Z which is entirely in French, even though it's very much sort of meant to be said in Greece. Thing. I mentioned Chernobyl earlier in the mini series, where everyone has a British accent. You know they're all playing Russians, and I think there are. There are many great examples. Thanks that. I think that was the positivity this episode needed. There's a large set of recommendations where it just didn't bother us that they were not speaking the language they were supposed to. But we don't have to worry if we will not suddenly switch to another language. We will stay speaking to you in English. So thank you so much for listening and join us against you in H you have been listening to the talking images, official podcast of I C M Forums Dot Com.

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