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Talking Images

Episode 38 · 7 months ago

Best Movie Endings: What Works and What Doesn't?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Is Psycho's ending actually terrible? Is Whiplash an evil movie made by evil people? Is Taxi Driver's ending even real?

Join us as we clash over iconic endings, break down the formulas and share our picks of best movie endings of all time.

Timestamps:

00:00: Spoiler-Free Discussion

20.36: The Spoilers Begins - Formulas / What Works & What Doesn't

57.48 - Films Saved by their Endings

1.09.29 - Films That Are All About Their Endings

1.15.29 - Endings That Almost Ruined the Film

1.25.30 - Our Favourite Endings of All Time

Spoiler note:

There will be extensive spoilers for The Grey, Phoenix, The Last Laugh, Taxi Driver, Whiplash, The Holy Girl, Jacob's Ladder, Inception, Chronicle of a Summer, A.I., Psycho, Signs, The Usual Suspects, Z, Life of Brian, All That Jazz - as well as milder spoilers for many others.

You are listening to talking images, the official podcast of ICM Forumcom. Welcome back everyone. I'm Chris and in this episode we're talking endings and they have a great show for you. Today. Adam matur and I will not only share our very favorite endings of all time, will break down what we actually think endings should do. Yes, the old taboo. Should they clear everything up or leave us with a long list of questions nagging us into our sleep? Will even explore morality, Justice and, Oh yes, the Hays Code and answer whether or not films should ensure that we, the gullible and weak minded people in the audience, can understand that crime does not pay. More so, we look at how endings actually matter. Can they make or break a film? And yes, examples are coming, but don't worry, spoiler folks will do a more general discussion before them, with that clear warning, before we enter your dread that spoiler territory. And to put the icing on the cake, will even test some of matures pet tears. So let's actually start with that right now. But your part of the reason why we're even having this episode is because of your claim that the only thing we remember from a film is usually the beginning, a few select scenes and the end. You still stand by that that? They really like to explain your toll process. They're a little bit hi everyone. Yes, I mean, I do genuinely stand by it. Of course it's a generalization, but you know, there's that how what? Howks quote about a good film being three great scenes and no bad ones? I think, and I think specifically, opening and ending scenes are vastly more memorable and important generally to a fin and I think maybe that comes maybe. I also think that because in terms of writing, when I was taught how to write a paper, I was always thought that basically half your time should be spent on the introduction and the conclusion, right, opening and ending, and I think it's the same in in cinema. It's just it's what you're left with. And opening is important also, but thought or subject today. So yeah, I do, I do stand by that. Well, the jumping on that alum. I'm charmed by the theory. I don't know if I completely agree with it. I definitely agree that the endings and beginnings are very important. I'm not sure it's the only thing that people remember, certainly not for all movies. I do remember being taught, you know, in the fourth grade that when I was reading a book, to pay particular attention to the endings the beginnings, because they could expect the author to tell me something very important then, and it's certainly true in literature. As a former journalist, of course, we focus almost overwhelmingly on the first few paragraphs. The same is true to movies to an extent. I think about a movie like the godfathers, one worthy the end, the beginning is a sort of brilliantly constructed forecast of the entire movie. But I'm not quite sure that it's all we remember, or even most we remember. It's an exaggeration, I definitely recognize that, but I think it's a huge proportion of which we member just proportionate. I guess I could say, I think fel losing that that this episode is about endings and not beginnings, because in terms of the generally they I think I remember more beginnings than the ends, almost because like that's when the director really has to grab our attention and keep us and so often they managed to do that but then lose US along the way. But endings the reason, I guess, they don't necessarily stand out as much, in my mind, is at that point. There's so much build up, there's so much of experience that ending is often just the icing on the cake, if you will, or a vake let down. So, yeah, I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with your theory either, but you I mean, I went through my favorite film lists and was thinking, okay, which of these films do I love in particular because of the ending, and there was very few of them. I mean, I like them, thinks of all of them, of course, but it's not necessarily the thing that stands out in my memory the most. Well, Chris, what you say sort of gets into a conversation about the structure movies and and how they sometimes often for follow up formula. Yeah, I think this is why, why the beginning is so important for people have seen a sufficient number of movies. We become familiar with the formulas, will become familiar with the cliches and the beginning is often an introduction to what is the Formula I can expect in this movie. That's why I think beginnings are so important, and then the endings oftentimes just confirmed the formula. They they're designed to wrap...

...things up, as you said before. And to reassure us and to make us feel good. So I think I think the beginning is important, is as much you said, to give us an expectation just of what we're going to see ahead. So obviously I do agree agree with that. What I would say is that I can think of many times where there was a great opening scene and then the film kind of petered out from there. Oh I. But it's not as much the case for me with endings. There are some cases of them that I think I find but then the ending is great. But generally a great ending for me is more there's a big, good correlation. What right with with things I love, I guess, and what you say about wrapping up, I think the best films either they don't wrap up what they open or they pop up in a way with a scene that encapsulates the whole film. And I guess I talked about that more later, but that's what I mean when I say you end up remembering that scene. Again, a generalization, but that's, I think, why I would value endings genuinely all, not not necessarily value, but think I'm more impoltant than openings. Much to you. I agree. When it comes to what are the sort of endings I like. I think those endings that we expect are the far, by far, the most common, and they're designed to do two things. Those those endings that we expect. They're designed to sort of, like I said, wrap up the story, leave us with a good feeling and reassure us. And and in some ways, those endings we expect. They're sort of like the fast food of movies. They're familiar, comforting. They may not be entirely healthy, people expect everything to be the same in certain movies. If they say, a romantic comedy, they know the ending they expect from a romantic comedy and they feel good when that ending is delivered. That's fine and good and I certainly don't begrudge anyone those joys. I do, like you, prefer the endings where our expectations are betrayed in some way and ending that either doesn't resolve things, leaves things open, that leaves us with a sense of puzzlement or bafflement, or an ending that goes the opposite way that that than we expect. And I have to confess heres and say as a child I've always loved endings where the bad guys want just for that reason and because you're secretly evil. There's also that's there's a certain joy in seeing evil triumph, at least on the screen. That the something we even the talk about in, you know best, their polledcast as well, I think, well, the same three of us who were talking about, you know, the glorious ending to the great silence and the just how impactful that ending wealth the very first time we saw it. I think that definitely, when you have an ending you really don't expect or betray all of your expectations, that's far more powerful, at least to me, than that feel good fast food ending you were talking about. An excellent example in Westerns, are perhaps one of the most formulaic of genres. We know the ending to expect in a Western, right the good guy kills the bad guys. Often there's a girl involved and they get together. But those Westerns that sometimes our most memorable, our westerns were the opposite happens, or, if not the opposite, something a little more ambiguous and and the great silence is an example of that. The searchers is an example. That high plane drifter is an example that. These two me are some of my favorite Westerns yeah, and that and that gets to one thing that's again we talked about with is how endings are often tied with Malodity, all with what we feel that film is saying in all or ethical terms, which I don't think you could say about openings for the most about. But I guess I leave that discussion. I mean we this is not exactly the subjects openings versus ending, so that that's an interesting way of looking at ending, tipathy the matter reflecting the beginning. But yeah, I think we can started. They'll be into the thinking. Question I had, which was about a better, not deeper, for open endings or these more, you know, cookie cutter endings. But I'm not sure if we're giving the endings that wrap everything up neatly a bit of a bad rapper, because you can wrap things up very nicely and still subvert expectations a little bit. So do you guys, in most circumstances, prefer an open ending or can you know we have one of these nice, if you will, endings were all the answer to your questions are just cleared up and everything is understood, then we just close it. Can they be as powerful as you know? I feel without a real resolution. I think they can be and I would tend to say prefer that's what I said. I prefer open ended endings in general, but there's also something very satisfying about a film just being, yeah, being closed, and it's not necessarily what I think Adam was referring to as in or what you said with cookie cutter endings. I mean cookie cutter is derogative, I would say. So obviously that's that's not good, but I think plenty of films benefits from because they feel...

...more cohumance, right, because if the ending kind of makes sense with the rest of the film, I mean you can make sense while being open ended, but there's a there's a certain feeling of satisfaction you can get from that, which is not necessarily the fast food kind of thing that that Adam described. So I think both have values, even though I and I think most synthized then to the open ended endings just because they strike us more right, because they are more unexpected. Well, I've made my preference is clear, but I should clear up that when I compared those expected endings to fast food, what I just meant was that we know what's coming. That doesn't mean it's not satisfying. There's a reason so many people like fast food. There's reasons so many people like that expected ending. But that ending, send food, is plus what is specifically bad for you. I mean, okay, my comparison is breaking down all fast through. I mean there's the art of this healthy fast food trend, you know, where you have these, you know, grained by gets and they get salads on them, et Cetera like. Those do exist. We can do that podcast about fast food quick with new food, people of death, healthy fast food coming up. Well, I mentioned the Godfather earlier in the context of beginnings and now I'll mention again now in the context of endings, without explaining what exactly happens at the end for the people out there who haven't seen it, but that is a movie where the ending not only loops back to the beginning, it reaffirms the entire journey of the movie and the central themes of the movie. There's nothing sort of unexpected or ambiguous about the ending of the Godfather, but it is immensely satisfying. So I would say that those endings that we expect are satisfying and even healthy, unlike fast food, when the quality of the movie that preceded it was excellent. Yeah, and it's like everything. It's odd execution. I mean there's plenty of things that that ambiguous and it's just kind of a lazy do whatever you want. It's why I think of a movie like heart of glass by Verna Hurt Sog, which I love the ending in a certain sense, but it's so baffling, it's so completely disconnected from the rest of the movie that you just kind of wonder, is he messing with us? Is that the point of this? And if he is, I'd moderate. I'm sorry that that's not missing with us. Mak it his entire life to that. Well, we were talking about that. You'll partentially lazy endings. I was thinking of one. I'm not going to say which film it was, but it's a film by Greg Arocki, who, among other things, did misde skins, and he has one feel at literally ends, just with all of the characters suddenly an inexplicably dying, the world blowing up and then the logo of why not productions coming on the screen, and a lot of people saw that. That's one of the latest endings of all time, very essentially just like it's over wrap it up. Everything's done, but there's a certain amount of fun and play. I think that's a quite unique yes, I can, I haven't. I don't know the movie you're talking about. I kind of admire it just for the sheer sensibility of it. It does make me think a little bit when you talk about lazy endings of the old sex Machina method of ancient Greek theater, which I'll explain for people are not emiliar. But the sex magna in Latin means a God from a machine. So in certain genres, certain examples of the theater of Ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the situation would be resolved by having one of the Gods simply descend from the top of the stage and use their supernatural powers to clear everything up, which is a tidy way to fix things, but it's based in a certain embrace of things that are unrealistic and I you know, when I see it happened in a movie it feels very unsatisfying and very lazy. Yeah, the tell is definitely used again to to the delicate in the delocative man and now, even though it used to be the but just to stand up. I think technically me the doe trick to do explain. I can work really well as well and I can't think of anything at the top of my head like, I guess, the pro plowing up, if the way of this, the PLOP resolving. But I do think, and I think this brings me to perhaps the most poetic question, which is what is I good ending? Is Threat Templet? If there's something a film can really do, some kind of like to talk about previously a cooked cut, there formiout to make sure that you get that good ending, or is it really up to each field individually? Well, we've talked about a sort of spectrum between the ending you expect and the ending you don't expect and perhaps no one could expect. And on one end, you know, we have those typical rom calm endings where everyone knows what's coming from the first minute, and at the other end of the spectrum we have something like burner her sog, heart of glass, or perhaps cable forgotten dreams were known. Could possibly expect the ending? But there's also a different method, I think, of judging endings, which is the extent to which they perhaps reveal something about the movie that somehow had not...

...been revealed in the preceding two hours. This is particularly applicable to mystery movies or what Matt You said about whether the ending can brilliantly and briefly encapsulate the main themes of the movie, and I think both of those can be very satisfying. Yeah, I would not pretend to know what makes a good ending. I guess. I guess I know some of the things that I like in endings. I do tend just kind of looking up what endings I prefer for this episode. I noticed that generally endings that are really focused on music, all that use music in a very es central way, tend to work. We do went for me, but I think I'm going to mostly agree with Adam. There's no I think there's no recipe right all, I mean there is a recipe, but does no recipe for making a great ending. There's just a recipe for making endings. Yeah, I think that too, and I think it really depends on the film with seeing and what they're doing. A film can be extremely powerful just by tying everything up in an unexpected way. Sometimes they can powerful by doing everything we expect it to be, perhaps because we don't want it to happen that way or just because it's done so well. You know, say you know the classic mystery story, which may be a bit quickly cut there, but you know every clue is revealed and you get that surprise ending and you see whether or not you have guests, the killer or not. Or other times, at least for me, you have that tension leaning there and personally, I realize didn't answer this question previously, I do tend to prefer the ambiguous ending. I do tend to prefer that something lingers arm. Now you can close everything up and if you talked about other the great silence already, and that does technically tie everything up, but it leaves you with such a sense of the price and the broken conventions that you sit there thinking about it for a long time. And at least to me, that's the thing that really defines a great ending, something which is leaves you in that world, leaves you thinking about it. Be It that you drawn into the characters or the craft or the story, but it's just you can't let it go. I mean I so one film just yesterday by a look at Martel, which closed off the action before the climax. Essentially you have several scenes we know that something's happening, you know there's going to be a reveal, something potentially awful will happen, and then the film stocks it just ends day. You never get that climax, you never get that thing you know would be so awful and then you just you have to imagine it, and I think being left to imagine something that's strong and also leave you with a great sense of of just or an awful or discomforting sense of just imagining that in your own head and when you left imagine things, I think that's the sign of a really, really great and being yeah, I don't think I can think of a film that we does. That's maybe I've seen one that it doesn't come to mind. Which which film was? That's by Marten. You say I didn't say because it in want to spoil it, but I so, yeah, I do. Don't say it. Don't say it so I can mention it in the spoiler part of spoiler pacts. By the way, by the way, I was thinking about the do sex back in I think, and I guess the examples of good the sex backing that ending. That comes to my mind. It makes sense. Their favorite days or mobilety takes. So the Virgin Spring would be one the Bagman film and the other one would be the title of the Princess Kaguia. Oh, yeah, which literally there's a divine intervition at the end. I think that happen is very effective. Yeah, so those are examples to answer five minutes later. Yeah, but I'm not even sure if let me look at Kadia. I'm not fret cow bring. It's one of my all time favorite movies. For some reason it did not occur to me to bring it up within the dair sex, Marx and UM. But yes, there's there's this beautiful sort of divine intervention at the end, or just call it a miracle of sorts. Oddly enough, I I remember when I first saw it, I felt it was it was one of the weaker parts of the movie, and I guess that's my bias against the day sex Nah and then, yeah, I think we get to just kind of have a epidemic reaction to that kind of ending. That is all. That's disappointing. It's so neat that it can work so on, and even in Karaoya, I think that it's not taking. I mean it did, isn't do Chechussin, because the gods literally intervene. But there's also quite a bit of build up there. But I think, why don't actually skip to the spoiler section right now, because we're going to discuss some really fun things. We can discuss the Hayes Code. We're going to discuss films that were ruined by their endings froms that were elevated by the endings and even if there are, you know, some films, film sounders, Etcetera, which really need that ending to fit. And that also lets me reveal the Lucretia Martel film I was just talking about.

So if you completely spotrophobic, you can theoretically leave now, or you can look down into description of this episode and you can, you will see time stands where you can jump to specific topics and specific films so that you know these dreadful, awful, awful spoilers don't just ruin your day and leave you hating this podcast forever. So I'm going to give you a couple of seconds to just turn off pause, do whatever you want, and then I guess now jump in on the spoiler section. And the film I was actually talking about earlier was the holy girl from two thousand and four which, just to give a really quick rundown, it's essentially a lightly disturbing love triangle, if it will, between a mother, a doctor, and her underage daughter, where the doctor, throughout the film, without before realizing it's her daughter, essentially feels her up on the street. It's quite disturbing and little the girl develop some feelings for him. It doesn't actually nothing actually happened, but it has this really uneasy overtones throughout and at the end of the film, essentially two girls, friend reveals a ther mother, she goes into the tell they're all it's all dreadfull. They're going to reveal it the doctor. Here's the rumors that this will happen. But he has a presentation as he goes up with the mother of the girl and they're bout to you know how this large joint speech and presentation in front of a full auditorium of all of their colleagues, and it cuts before even goes out. In the scene we it cuts with the mother of the friend sitting in the the hallway waiting to reveal this information to the girl's mother and with the two girls, who are friends, is swimming in the pool with the friend about reveal that she's, you know, told on her and like all of these pieces are just right. They're leaving us just what will happen? What will happen like? How will this be resolved? And then, with a girl swimming in the pool, it ends and all of that tension has has been building for about ten fifteen minutes at this point it cuts before anything is said, anything here is revealed. I think that's just such a great example of just leaving us to imagine that awful, awful confrontation, especially because the doctor's wife and child is right there as well. So like everything will come out in the open and their lives will be ruined and we have to imagine it. That sounds great and I think I've seen films that do this, but I just cannot think. I went. Chris, what did you especially love about this ending as compared to to maybe, I don't want to say similar movie, but something of the light, where the ending might be different or more conventional? I think it's just the fact that the tension isn't released like, like I said, you have this ten fifty minutes just build up off this tension, like you just waiting for his pieces to come together, and they never do so. Already, when the doctor is Dandy there dreading to go out on stage, or the girl joins her friend in the pool is about to say, you're just waiting for that moment where this thing is revealed. You waiting for an awful, awkward confrontation. You just waiting for at the really feeling in the blanks of how it will happen, because Martel really lingers on it. But then it doesn't happen. I think that's why this particular film, this complete lack of resolution, is so strong, just because it's essentially when you fill up at the pressure. You fill it up, you fill it up and you fill it up and you waiting for that explosion, but it doesn't come and you can see it all were and nowhere again in your head, and that's why that ending really really working me, because I guess the cautrses never arrives. The couldarsis can only arrive in your imagination and it sounds amazing. Unfortunately. I am trying to think of something similar that I've seen, but but I can't. Nothing comes to mind at the moment. I kind of want to see this movie. Now, go for it. It's a pretty great film. It's not probably not her very best, but it's a great ending. It sounds like a high risk, high we want situation right, because you could also find that, you know, it's kind of a secute to judience in some way. So you can also take it that way, I mean the way you describe it anyway. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think like if you're coming expecting their conventional drama, for instance, like Adam talked about earlier, with, you know, getting that satisfaction, definitely, there are all the films that do this. I can't remember any other ass you know striking example. It is only because I saw this yesterday, but this idea of can you pull it off, and sometimes it's can even feel a bit cheap when directors do this or or writers do it, because it's like they built up all of this for the real but then they just didn't have the creativity or the strength to pun day that properly. They didn't have the skills to put that into an end. Need to just cut the in early to to I can definitely a lot of people being really pissed off...

...in the audience and if, at the end of this movie, what you know now a comparison is come to mind that I'll share with you the the Liam Neeson in in Alaska movie the gray from about ten days yes, I don't know if any of you've seen it, but essentially leam Neeson is on a plane that that crashes in the Alaskan wilderness and the story is his attempts and the attempts of the survivors of the plane crash to survive in the wilderness as they're stocked by these ravenous will wolves who clearly want to kill them. And that's one where the tension is building towards a face off with the wolves the entire movie and in the last moment leam Neeson, who's in a fount of despair's considering suicide, decides he's going to fight the wolf and he he picks up some bottles and shatters it and tapes the glass sharks to his hands and he's going to go fight a wolf and this is exciting and the movie ends right there. I remember I saw it at a screening in college and this is just an example of how unsatisfying and infuriating it was. Everyone was kind of upset that we didn't get to see the fight with the wolf and then someone who the man who was was arranging the screening and nounced wait, hold on, there's an after credit scene and this this brings us into the entire topic of after credit scene. Oh, so, through the credits, which were quite long, we waited ten minutes, that's and we got about a quarter of a second shot of a wolf breathing and that was it. That was that was the after credit scene, and it's not clear he's about to fight leam neeson or is already fought Lea Nson and one, or maybe he's been killed in his dying from Lea Neeson and and next one I remember, where everyone in the audience was just furious. Yeah, that makes sense. Yes, I mean I actually remember quite liking this ending, which I guess would infuriate you as well. It's not a great ending, but it's it ties into that that sense I mentioned earlier, and I think this might be most moves I was thinking about too. We're could they have done that properly, to that fight with will actually having carried out on screen and be satisfactory, and I'm not sure if the necessarily could have done it or if it would just have looked awkward or sad and change the tone of the entire movie. I think would have been difficult to pull off a good animal fight ending and certainly it would greatly upset the the the animal lovers, which is a sizeable section of the audience. So maybe it's better that we didn't see the ending. Maybe there was no good way to resolve that movie. Yes, fighting animals. That's specially difficult to do without a huge vfx pert that, I think, because we we are adding, as you click into that. Yes, fight real wolves. Now I guess you can be trained Yourman check birds, I disguised as wolves. But still my money is on Lea Nson in any fight. The power of holly were there the regardless of how broken down or old or his homing Endemystra. Are you still thinkly of decent Canada? We'd save the day. And this point, yes, definitely. But with the wic talking about ending, that kind of just changed abruptly and I guess this could be a type of ending that makes the movie too. But can you, can you think of an examples where the film really managed to give you that ending that just elevated all of it, that perhaps delivered on what you didn't necessarily think it could deliver on and well, I guess one of my examples for this would be Phoenix, the Christian petsolt's film, which I don't know if the film was made necessary with the ending in mind, but for me watching it, I wasn't sure about the film. You know, it was effective as a drama taking place in post World War to Theln, but that final scene is just innovates the film, profounding for me. And again it involves music, as I mentioned earlier. And yes, I guess that would be an example, because you have this realization of this plot. So I guess we're in this poler section right, because it's this woman who's come back from the the camps, and her lover from before, who may have betrayed her, doesn't recognize her because she distributed and so the whole film she's kind of living it at have space, so kind of foughting a new identity but also trying to regain him in some sense. And that last scene is a scene where she reveals herself to him through playing a piece of music that they have a history with, and it happens in public. It's it's and it's this very understated. Very matters the acted scene, and yeah, it should. To me it kind of feels like the film was made just purely to get fat seen and that it was entirely worth it. Yeah, I remember that scene. It's really powerful because you can just slowly see him realizing it. It's such great acting as well, because we can kind of see his early uncertainty and familiarity and then it suddenly realizes that it's...

...been her all along. And it's even a bit of those endings that trout early too, because it leaves us they are of course. It leaves us with that realization and they never talked about it. It's never, you know, calmly sorted out with all the loose endings tied up, like you still don't have an APP you still don't know for sure if he gave her up to the KNUTZIS. It's heavily implied. You can guess it, but it's never tied up neatly. You don't know if they're actually going to manage to make a go of it again or if they can. But it's just that moment of realization and even this moment of ambiguity we're trying to guess how he feels about it like it is. He is he happy that he has her backwards. It devastated that this woman he made that may given up the Nutsis is they're judging him for it. So it's like that scene. It's truly a powerful agree it's a beautiful movie and a beautiful ending pro for all the reasons you mentioned, Chris. One thing, though, that stands out to me. It's also of mostly a nonverbal ending. Now, if I recall, she's singing during that scene, or playing the piano. I can't recall, but some music playing. He's playing the piano, interest singing. Right, excellent. Okay, so they're both playing a song and the revelation happens nonverbally. He notices something and everything is revealed to him and that revelation comes without any communication. So it's an ending that depends entirely on a nonverbal process and and this highlights the acting, as he said, Chris, it's it's has its power because of the reactions we see on his face and and that itself is a very sort of small subgenre of ending, those endings that depend entirely on something that is revealed and something that is reacted to. Without communication. It makes me think of Gold British gangster movie the Long Good Friday, where it ends with just a two minute close up on Bob Hoskins face, with no discussion whatsoever. It just say video of his reactions to a perilous situation he's entered and we don't know what's going to happen to him, but we get to see his reaction to this and I found that, similarly, a very powerful ending to the cloth ups in general. It is actual a subgenre of ending says well, where you know, you just assume in the main character are the two main characters faith when you leave us with something. I mean even the big Hollywood the films like a graduate, where you though the the ending is just then at the back of the bus would another sense of realization or, of course, the very famous free frame in for other blows. So I think this idea, after entering in on a character in a moment of either has said or person really realization or despair. It's definitely develop those really interesting genres in how to do a really interesting ending. Yet to enforced that. I had actually thought of a tree of endings that I would was grouping together and I haven't seen the long Good Friday, but it sounds like it's pretty similar. And and the ones I was thinking of they are all nonverbal and all closs ups. So and those are vile. More the timing young film, which ends on a pretty long scene where at first we're following the protagonist who is walking down the street, but then she's sitting down and it's just a clusip of her crying. Yes, and you know, it's kind of it's a whole thing about the nation, of course, as are all of his films as far as understand, and you know it's a woman who is kind of a stronger dependent woman, quote unquote, and so seeing her break down this way it's very striking. And you get more recently you had two endings kind of similar with called me by your name, the Gay Woman's film, She Meta Chadame, similarly looking into the fire and almost into the camera and crying, and my favorite Porteit degencianfoo portrait of Alidium fire where you've got a d nail. She's not looking at a camera for the most part. That she is again crying about what happened in the film and again non verbal, again musical, like comby name also Nodi lemo. But yeah, I think that that type of ending there something. I guess the closer it lets you really see the kind of subtle changes, and so it works with is this kind of ending the unfortunately, I haven't seen any of those three, but it put means puts me in mind of one more movie, which is Knights of Kiberia, which also is almost a nonverbal ending and also a close up, and also one involves a lady crying. For those who don't see, it's a story of a prostitute in Rome who experiences one tragedy after another. She seems a broken woman, but as she's walking through a forest, from from the point where she was robbed of her life savings, she's sort of mysteriously surrounded by a bunch of young people who are in the midst of some sort of Party or revelry. They're walking around, they're talking, they're playing music, they're singing and their spirits somehow revives her. So even as she's crying, she begins smiling. The way I describe...

...it, it sounds so incredibly sappy, but you haven't see it. It's remarkable. It's a bit unexpected given the dourness of the entire movie and and somehow it's affective. It feels both sad and joyful. Yeah, that's combination of complex feelings is often a sign of a great ending, and dancing is also a great stape for I find things. I mean Fay, you mentioned Finnie, of course, and eight and a half, which references the end of it in a half, is something I absolutely love. I mean, he did this for a few of his fames. I think the ending where everyone dances, the little circus energy that that he has, and I mean I think I'm guessing it is a reference to the ending of the seventh seed, which is, you know, this dance of the dead. Does my cab of the thing itself a reference to a medieval thing, but you also have that again, both incredibly sad but also accepting life in some sense, after the new events of the seven seed, which I very dark. And Yeah, I think I think dancing is again another nonverbal way that endings can kind of few transcendental. I guess that's something we haven't talked about. Is that often the the ending scene it's kind of tries to be special, right, because it kind of has to be. And another example for this would be the end of Good Haveai look at beneath him. To the end is a dancing scene. That is mysterious as well, because you don't quite understand it's also a release. Yeah, it's something, yeah, that only endings can do. I think is because they don't have to be followed upon. I mean, it sounds silly to say, but my tire you. You took the one movie I wanted to discuss, which is about your VI is an excellent example. But dancing ending, as as are the seven ce on and in half and never thought of in half and and the seven cl was sort of count parts or one a response to another, but it makes sense now. Boucher bis a movie I did not like, and I know I'm in the very small minority in that sense, but it's an ending I absolutely love. It is a dancing ending, as much as you said. So it has that and it's also, like you said, very mysterious. So it's a bit unexpected. It's stands apart from the rest of the movie, which is is definitely has some sort of dance like qualities, but the rest of the movie feels realistic. The final scene we don't really know what's going on. It could be a fantasy, it could be a hallucination. It's hard for the rest of the movie because the main character who's dancing in the end, he's revealing a side of himself which is completely opposite from the way he's behaved the entire movie and it's revealing something that we always felt was inside him but was very, very hidden, and that's that's why it's so powerful and I can't believe in neither of you. Engine throw by the Greek with the famous ending dance. That's well, another example of a movie I didn't love, but the ending is great. I actually I'm not a huge fan of the Hawaian Club of me in general either, but I think it's an example of the film to me that I'm not a big fun of the film, but the ending is so great. But at that I end up having a generally put it to opinion. I think actually, speaking of the dance endings, we've talked about with Christmas and be about drunk the Tolas Vinel bug fin. That's I think simlody is kind of okay film, but it has that great dance ending with that's because in dancing and yeah, it's just so efficient, so so at again, it alivates the fam it's a thing that I would not particularly have caretful, but because it has attending, and I think a lot of people felt that way and that's why it won. So then it was the ending just makes the same. That's such a great example as well. I mean I actually quite liked another round throughout, simply because they had this fairly playful idea of, you know, taking a scientific experiment the on screen and the descent while doing it all was really nice and intellectual way to just create a comedic plot, even though it's quite an easy film in a lot of ways. But yeah, definitely strong ending and that's one of things there's people don't shut up about them. Like you said, that it really is the scene that people remember. So it's an excellent, excellent example of a scene and an ending that really made the film. So I actually have two films I want to talk about here, which are both a little bit different than the first one. I will talk about its Monos, the last laugh, because I had the pleasure, perhaps even this pleasure, of recently watching you know that they did. They did it attention extra the Blue Ray, where you have the original ending, their ending that Monro wanted because, as most people know, he wanted this hyper the press saying ending to close the film and the studios like Yes, even back in the mid twenties, the studios interference that know you cannot do that. Go back, shoot a happy ending, and when I first watched it, my reaction to...

...that was, how dare they? You know, why didn't they let him have? You know, that original simple ending, even though I like ending finance it was. But then when I went back and saw the original ending, you know where he's just I can spurl it again because in this foiler section he just dies. You know, he was the chief Doorman with his beautiful massive uniform and like it, is pride and joyed, but becomes to old. So gets the mold to this andually ends up as the new man in the toilet. He's just sitting there here, hands people their powerl and it that sets his life. Now it's just sitting there. They in day out, while he keeps up this in a pretense of still being the Great Dorman. He steals his uniform and inverarse it every day until it's discovered at this all a lie and the final scene is just sitting alone in the toilet. They come in in the morning and implication is that he's dead. The CAMERADA stays on him and that's it. That, I was the original ending and that was the ending as almost reasonly, and it's not. It's not that hard. It's not the striking because it's just oh, he's dead, like it feels like the air is that out of the bag. But when you get the fake happy ending, and this is what Mono said himself about it, because he taught the fake happy ending was more cruel than anything else because it's so delarious. Essentially, he wins a lot of money and he just rides in and he's this wonderful millionaire and it feels so fake. It feels like this last dream of glory and ending in not ending it in that note, and this is actually a really nice counter with the film I've got to talk about as my favorite film ending of all time a lot later. But just to throw it in deeszit eimilar to there, but just the study it just feels like the dying dream of a poor broken man. It just becomes extra sad so that that fake ending, that extra happy ending, it really really elevates the film in my mind. Wait, Chris, you're saying the fake ending, though, the one, the happy ending, is good. It's a good ending for this moving it elevated it. Yeah, exactly. I think it's actually it's sadder because it's so unrealistic and bizarre. Absolutely. Yeah, Oh man, I had a totally different reaction. I mean it's sad because, you know, a potentially great movie was almost ruined by its ending. That that was a nice reaction, and this sort of gets into the topic of movies that were recut by the studio, or is take director's hand. It also gets on the topic of movies that have to have happy endings, or at least moralistic endings, because of production codes. Yeah, I did not have the same reaction to the last laugh. That's fair enough. I think the way that Moreno shot it, though, I really think, was the next to school you to the studio. Yeah, I think. I think you can definitely feel that. I agree with Chris. I love the the last laugh and I think the ending works great because because of the way it's shotten, because of the how do you say that? An intertitle patrol cade, because of the title card, which introduces it and I don't remember exactly how it says it, but it makes it super clear that it's like, we know how this story ends. It does not end well, so let's let us indulge in what happy ending could look like. Right. That's how I took it and to me it is a very sad like it does not remove the melancholy and the sadness of the film, I think. I think that way. That's why it talks for me. And I didn't know actually, before you bought it up earlier, that it was the forced ending by the studio. I mean, obviously that makes sense, but I thought it he was pointedly kind of making fun of happy endings. I don't know, I thought it was on purpose. I think when they forced him, that was the solution, like evolution of the mock the idea that that's how I read it. Anyway. It should be not the original title of the movie was not the last laugh. It was the last man, yeah, and last Yeh exfinitely. Yeah, the last laugh was the title that was imposed because it sort of says the doorman will he has the last laugh on everyone when he become wretch. Yeah, it's actually I use the last laugh, because I know that's the English name, but in both German and French it is it is still named. I think the last one really it's interesting this time in interpretation to because essentially you added you see it a bit more realistically in terms of this is how it it ended, while material which I usually if doubles the case, it wouldn't be good ending at all. I'm a too, and I see it a bit of a more ridiculous, impossible ending that just underlines how sad everything is. It's a little bit like the ending to parasite, where you also have this wonderful fantasy that you know can't possibly be true. Though they're, they make sure that you understand at the very end that it's not the case and it won't be the...

...case. Yeah, I don't think the ending to parasite. I know that treming, but I don't think that's two strong ones. No, I mean either. That's what you said actually about endings where you're not sure way if it's true. I mean that's that's kind of a thing. Yeah, and I think the big one that comes to mind for me is taxi driver. Thanks to ever, the first time I watched it I was disturbed by the ending. I did not know what to do with it because I thought I had the handle of the fin and then the ending came and I mean I just didn't know. I was like, is it possible that Scorsese is actually growing fining this guy, because that's what it feels like. He's giving it. It's giving him everything. And you know, if you watched it recently and I've made my peace with that ending, I don't know. I think the film is very clear. That's on the character. I don't think you can interpret the film as being a group at bofication to at least I don't. So I love the thing, but yeah, I guess I have to accept that this ending is is unfathomable to me. I still don't have a handle an twitter, but if I remember the ending of taxi driver, he's driving simple shepherd around and then at a certain point is alone in the cab and there's this weird moment where he suddenly sharply glances in the rear view mirror and there's this sort of musical, sort of weird noise and I felt that was sort of the the indication that we got that, you know, he is not exactly in a happy place. He's seemingly, you know, had this great success and is being praised for this, this shocking act of violence, but that doesn't mean he's redeemed. He still a very dangerous character who will descend into violence again. That that's was at least my interpretation, but I agree, maybe it wasn't a wasn't clear. Yeah, but your interpretation is that it's all happens, but that civil shepherd does get into the cabin ta throughout, because I think there's a little sticculation about that. You think it's a fantasy sequence? Yes, IM actually, I don't, though. This is no funny, because it happened again, like once again we have them taking the most reasonable view of it, where it actually happened with both material and I taking the fans that, yeah, it's fantasy. Well, I don't know, I'm not very strong, as I said, I just don't know. I don't feel that it's shot in a way that makes me think it's a fantasy. I think it's unclear. I just don't know. It's not like just that US. No, we'll have a strong opinion in this case. I just I'm going to watch it. To texi driver eventually, because it's a great thing, and maybe when they'll have an opinion, but I don't really have a yeah through it like it's weekly from me as well. But I do like the fact that it's a lead for me play through the idea of whether or not it's real or not, and I think that there's a lot of movie endings that do that, though perhaps this is just me and mat you as well, over adalyzing them a little bit now. There there are so many. I mean, just take Robert Deniro again. We have once upon a time in America where there some ambiguity at the end whether how much of the movie is is real and how much of it is hallucination Robert Deniro has while he's very high on opium, and that is purposely done. I felt that was the filmmakers purposely being ambiguous. I felt taxi driver, it's you know, I until this moment I never thought of it as a potential fantasy sequencing. I know what I'm doing tonight. I'm really watching taxi driver and I guess it's going to also be bad. I mean I have a tendency to to visits that type of thing in general. I think a recent example would be joker. I fin might personally hate, and part of it is that the ending is also to be it's kind of folds into what I was talking about, that those starts of the episode. I do do what you can with it, but decide for yourself what is weird, which is not, because we haven't thought this. Rus will let you do the work and I think that's kind of an issue you can have with those super biguous ending is it's happening? Is it melts? It can be a bit of an escape. Right. Oh, we brought up three straight Robert De Niro movies now, so I don't know if, yeah, she would discuss perhaps there's a similar movie, type of movie, which is is one where at the end we discover it was all a dream or or we know it was a lucier no ambiguity. And there are so many in this genre, ridiculous. Some of them, I'd say most of them, are bad. Occasionally it's good. I think of a bad one, fairly obscure early Anthony Mannoir called strange impersonation, where we spend an hour in this deliriously wonderful noir mystery and then you know at the end it's wake up. It was all a dream. And that's another one where I remember I was seeing in the theater and the audience audibly groaned in Diossatisfaction. But to think of a better one, I would mention Jacob's ladder, the psychological thriller from One Thousand Nine hundred and ninety, or at the end we realize most of the movie is a sort of buying hallucination of a man who's dying in the Vietnam War. But somehow it it fits perfectly with the movie, because the...

...entire movie is about him coming to terms with his own death. The only good example I can think of is what I don't really want to mention even in this photo section, because it's a recent film and Nexix retise, I guess. I mean, I don't know if you guys want to but I think it's generally to on when films do that. But occasionally can works. You can work well. Now, I'm curious what you were going to say. Well, I mean, I guess I can. I can say it's I'm thinking of ending things. The child there may damn it, Matteo. That's it's still it will be waiting to see that movie sorry, but I mean that's it. It's not like the same has a very weird sense of reality throughout. So and and it's. Yeah, there are multiple possible interpretations. So, yeah, I don't feel like it's too, too bad. But yeah, it's a film that really plays with that idea. And Yeah, the same has a magical realism all over it's anyway. So you you know that it's weird reality that you're watching pretty soon. Yeah, I think it more of a letdown when that's not the case, like when you have these kind of dreamlike sequences. The fact that it's a dream doesn't really bother me that much necessarily. It's more when it's, you know, a straightforward narrative, like, without spoiling which film it is, even though we're in the boiler section, I can say that there's, for instance, a very famous fridgeline film which is just like one of its older film noise, but it does end to it. Oh, it was all just a dream, and that's that's when it just really silly and really annoying, because it's just like, oh, they just did this to get out of being able to do this particular move. Actually, I can believe we haven't brought it up, but the green daddy of them all is a guy. You want to talk agay. That's that's the maybe not the earliest example, but ch can you one of the most famous ones and one that works actually where the fact that it's so in someone's imagination is purposeful and will say wet. Yeah, agree with that completely. And that film is also so, you know, surreal and bizarre and abstract that it really worked. The captain of Dr Calgary is another movie where the studio took away control from the director. You know, the director wanted an unhappy, happy ending and he didn't want this this sort of twist ending, and it sort of reversed the intended message of the movie. Really I can't imagine what was the original ending it's been so long since I've seen it now. But I think you're right, Chris, that that these sort of movies, these where was all a dream. They they have there are silly and sometimes the only ones that work are the ones that are purposefully silly. It doesn't really work in a serious movie. So I think of a movie like total recall, where it's it's and big, it's throughout, whether it's all, you know, a fantasy or the devil's advocate, where where we do sort of see at the end that it's it's all a dream. Those are purposefully silly movies and in those context I think it works because it goes along with the silliness of the rest of the movie. That totally called is a great example. I didn't think about it's but yeah, it's really the whole film is about this kind of Meta thing, which reality I you in and that's why the ending, I think what we do it, and you do it the city. This helps the the in Heavn't sit in this of having a much spots and they good playing that every man. That's just they it premace. In contrast, a movie that has a similar sort of constant ambiguity, inception, is one where I felt the ending didn't work. And No, I know thousands of pages have been written about the end of inception, but I feel like like total recall. It's clear the director strategy is resolute ambiguity and then it works until a recall, because it's not a movie that Hass to be taken seriously, whereas inception is insistent on being very serious. And so when we have this playful ending it feels a little infuriating. Inception is an interesting case. I really like inception, but the ending. Every time I watch it I feel like I get it and I know and asked me a day later and I can say to you what I think about the in I think this ties in with what the thought with earlier, that the endings are really the things that stand out. So I actually I like in sepretion as well. I haven't seen it since it came out. It has a lot of issues. It's certain of all of those things that love to over explain. But yeah, I could not really care too much about whether or not the end of inception if real or not, because there's no emotional hide. They're really it's another of the copyright says kids and then this. Is this real or is it not? Like you have no real emotional connections to those kids. They have no like. Whether or not that it's a dream and not doesn't really matter. In potantly, no, I don't. As I think it, I think inception works emotionally for me anyway, and I do think it does matter. I mean, I guess again, I just don't want to defend it. I don't know how to share. I definitely get saying what Adams aguments right. That's that's...

...the ending, because we're being asked to care. The ending is a problem. I can see that. I don't know why it doesn't betther me. So I can see a little bit of gear. I can remember earlier in the film we have morencot are insisting that you know it is a dream and you know the fact that she theoretically kills herself with in this this dream, and the whole idea of is the still alive in the real world or not. I think that's definitely something that has a degree of impact and works. But a day for me that film, the key point me is not necessarily whether or not this real. Not like my main focus, for main enjoyment for that was more the logic of it and the fantasy involved, because it showed that Christopher Nolan really has an active imagination, more so than they often gets credited for. I think there's a lot of really extensive thinking going into, you know, the signing these worlds and how the logic works, even though it's also a little bit over explained. But that's a different matter. Perhaps the key question with these certain movies is whether the hallucination or the dream part of it is just something fun, or whether it's just something to confound the audience or whether it itself is a theme within the movie. So I think a movie like total recall, it is silly, but is movie maybe entirely about fantasies, whereas I felt inception, inception to a certain extent, is the same. It's it's a movie about dreams. So in some ways the ending is very appropriate. Yeah, absolutely. There's a movie like American Psycho, where I felt like the ending, which reveals that that, you know, Patrick Bateman's murder spree is an hallucination or a dream of some sort. Oddly enough, it also feels appropriate, even though it is sort of confounding the audience. But that's because it underscores the message of the movie, which is that this man is sort of stuck within his own diseased mind and stuck within his own diseaseiety and there's no escape for him, even in the realm of fantasy. He's always hugged back into his mediocre, Rich Guy Experience. I think a psycho is an interesting case. It's a thing that I really did it like and then the ending game and I thought, Oh, okay, maybe I'll have to be watched it, because I think the film could work with that's. But just I think I think the point of ending makes it with as you say, it's quite interesting. I just so did it. Enjoy watching it. So I think one day when we watch it's knowing that's and maybe it will work from it's an interesting case of a great ending not quite saving. That quite big enough to say with him. But but on the topic of films saved by the ending, and we haven't even gotten to ruin by the ending. But before we go to that more negative aspect of it, or other films that, in your mind, are all about the ending that in some way and o they're actually build up to it to the point that know, if that ending was not actually pulled through, well the film would collapse. Yes, absolutely. I mean I mentioned Phoenix already, which I think is one of those. The other big one for me is we plash the clashes, a film that I felt conflicted about through outs because it's very extreme and in terms of the behaviors it's showing on both ends. We need both the protagonists and the pity in likable and it's just it's felt like just the story of abuse. I don't know, I had trouble with it, but at the same time it was also intense and enghorssing. And then the ending came and I think the ending made the film the film is the ending, I would say, because it's communicates to me better than anything else in the film kind of the complexity of this question, the central question of the film, which is, you know, how far can you go to for arts? But it's not really just arts. It can be a profession, it can be just excellence, right, and as much as we like to think that there's a lot of exaggeration in terms of people, excellent people, being awten and that reason should do of the otherwise, the fact is it happens so often. So many great artists, so many great scientists, so many great you know, people who achieve great things are awful because they are so dedicated to what they do that they heard the people around them, and not only the people around them, actually also themselves. And I think the that's ending scene, that very long kind of musical piece, is so powerful because it is intense. You are many and glossed by what's going on and at the same time I think the fim is very clear that that's not it. This is not a good issue, but that issue a good end right? It's not. It's not good for the character of what's happening. He's realizing exactly what he wanted. But what's it worth it? And I think the answer is probably know. But the ending is making the case better than the rest of the film. For me, that's maybe it is and I think that's that's that makes the well. This is the...

...movie that I knew ahead of time we were going to have a big disagreement on, because we briefly discuss this beforehand. Now that I've actually heard your explanation, matth you, I'm I'm somewhat sympathetic to it. I think you're praising it for reasons that are not related to the reasons why I hate with blash and why I hate the ending. So let me briefly explain why, why I hate it, and you know there are two reasons I hate with lash. One reason, which we don't need to delve into, is that I think it is has a very misguided notion of what jazz is and how jazz works. I think it's a terrible depiction of Jazz on cinema. But let's set the side that for the moment and just talk about the ending. Because until the ending, if you do ignore the part about jazz, which is something I love, I think it's a pretty good drama about an abusive relationship. And then I interpret the ending as one that validated the abuse and validated the argument put forward by the tyrannical music teacher, which is that this sort of behavior, this abuse, elevates someone to greatness, and it seemed to me in the end that that that was what was achieved. Is the miles Keller character, the the jazz drummer, receives this final humiliation in a long string of humiliations and somehow this actually inspires them to to greatness through drum solo. And again it's a sign of how poorly it understands jazz that they think a drum solo is what is makes a great jazz drummer. So I felt it validated abuse in its own way. I felt it was it was an evil movie with an evil message, and I'd say to this day it's I might there's not not be a single movie I hate more, but now that I hear your interpretation out to you that shows a moment of triumph that's ultimately hollow. This is an interpretation I never thought of. I understand why you like it, but I can't quite escape my own interpretation. I think all of the bath cool through to the in the the I didn't really see the condemnation of that character. I think the film as a whole show that, you know, these really extreme methods of abuse had a past. The effect. I mean I can agree with mature too, that it was conflicted all that. I think the ending should have a degree of allowing that. But isn't even this moment really kind of lock eyes and there's this degree of pride there too, that kind of other scores that you know something good came out of all of it. But I think this is very much tied, I think, to the taxi driver discussion. I think it's basically the like. You don't have the fantasy elements, but I think it's that similarities. Here is again you see the importance of how endings define the morality within right. I mean I think both Adam and I feel that the end it defines what the message of this film is. We have different interpretations, but the thing is just generally. I don't think a film, the scene or anything is one thing. I don't think my interpretation is better than Adams. It's just mine. I don't really care what shows every things he did. I just know what I can take out of the film. Whether or not it was meant to be there is to me almost irrelevant. So that's what I see in the thing, because to me it is unfathomable to think that the jksemens character could be a model of anything. That's just how I feel and I think that's how you feel as well as done. The question is, can you interpret the scene is in a way that works? And Yeah, it just depends on the humor. Well, it's really gets into the topic of had a win sterpret movies. Whether we focus on what's known in literary studies, is reader response, how it's received, or if we focus on authorial intent, I'm personally more sympathetic to read a response, in which case I guess I should like this movie more. It's just a nagged by the mission that she's l approves of this abuse, which feels definitely I definitely get it. I'm definitely into Jun old back to camp death of the altar, death or alto. Inevitably we end up in semiotics and structuralism and post structuralism. Is that of the do you have a field that, if there is the same field, do but if they both feel that you, guys think was both all about the ending. Yeah, I guess we agree that. The movie I was going to mention for this question is one that was already discussed, which is Boa Tra VI, which is, as I said, as a movie I didn't like, but I adore the ending and in some ways I think the ending makes the the movie worth while. I say this is the understanding that most people love the movie and and I understand why they do. For whatever reason, I was just never able to be captured by the movie. It's a movie that's very meditative, that's very rhythmic, that's slow. Most people feel themselves totally entranced by boat Tra via. I guess I did not, and I wonder to Sir extent is it because I just didn't know what to expect from the movie? I hadn't seen any of clair denise movies. I didn't really know what the plot was. I just heard...

...it was good and turned it on and never really could get into it. But even if I did suffer through the the first ninety five percent of the movie, the payoff felt worthwhile because that final scene is so great. Yeah, I guess that's another thing. That's an ending. A great ending can do is make you we consider and want to revisit something that you didn't careful, as I mentioned with the making psycho and you with this book. I hm. Well, the film that first came to mind when I was thinking about the film that really is all about the ending was Paris text us by when renders and starting her the instant Na Natasha Kinsky. The reason for that is because this was a film where, the first time I saw it, like I couldn't imagine this film having a satisfactory ending. I was really unsure of how this could possibly be tied up, because in the film had the instant in place real this family man, his father, who has disappeared for four years and it's essentially a shell of his former self and doesn't feel like he belongs in this family anymore until he's suddenly shows up again. He picks up his son and it goes to try and find his estranged wife and throughout this film I think there's this question, which is just what did he do? Why did he leave? What is like? What could justify this type of action, this type of Elf Hatred? What could it be? And I think it's really starting to do that. You know, he doesn't meet up with his ex wife time and at touch against until the very end and she's still considered an integral part of the film. I mean she's on all the posters and most people will remember that ending where they are face to face, their talking through this green and she started to abolish or explain why he you know, why he did the things he did and you learned what he did over this and it's awful, it's disturbing, but also with, you know, a slight stint of sympathy for him. And it is really delivers, like it's both. The few films I can think of where it builds up all of this tension and it gaen newly delivers are that you feel like this encounter that the whole film that's build up to watch. It delivers. It has the emotional restaurants, it has the power and even goes beyond it, and I mean usts in vendors or or anyone else, and the store just chopping before that meeting does, leaving it plank, leaving us, just like Mortel did with the holy girl, leave the tension right there, because it how can you actually sum this up? But you know vendor's did, his writers did and and his actors did, and it comes together so beautiful and so powerfully. It is a movie that's able to to fulfill the slow building tension of the first two hours, and I think that's incredibly rare because that tension builds so slowly and yet that mysteries hanging over the movie for the the entire runtime, from the first moments, of what happened to this man and why is he the way that he is? And oddly enough, it's a movie and contrast to Phoenix, where the ending is entirely verbal. But it feels still extraordinarily powerful. And one of the interesting things is that I think from a lot of it they're not looking at each other, they're looking through a one way mirror, and then there's a certain point where they just sort of sit down and they're not even looking at each other, as if the pain of what they're expressing is too much for their gaze to bear, which which really underscores the emotional intensity of it. Yeah, the way it shocks is it is quite milkable and it t really adds to the tension and the ambiguity and also the truthfulness of the scene as well as we see the performances. It's interesting PAS Texas. But there's a there's a word for its right, there's a word for films that's not just films but things that go to Aden ending, that geared to what an ending. That's the theological and I don't think of the success as being that's because I see it as being wed you of two halves. But that makes sense also. But it's just the Natasha Kinsky character is not something you expect at the start of the thin. I guess. Yeah, in terms of unlocking what happens, it makes sense, but I guess I think of it most two halves, of the first half being how is in stockwell going to make him open up? How is he going to interact with the weird on, and then the second half being more redemption story. But yeah, I mean that that that talks makes sense to see that way. I guess. To to expand on teleological films, I think there are a lot of them. I mean one category that kind of is funny for me is films where the end is in the title. So, like the first one that came to mind is the man escaped, with the story of a man to escape and the end of the film he escapes. You know, quite simple. The ending is great, it's...

...extremely satisfying. Yeah, but it's all in the title. Other ones that came to one would be the last temptation of Christ right, that's the whole film is just up to that. A moment of innocence is another one. Oh yes, I was going to mention that one. Yeah, the whole point of the film is this. I don't think it works as well as as mcmabath would want it to, but whatever, it's the whole film is literally that. You get to that and you get the classic, you know, care first sight fresh from ending. It's all just about that. And I guess another one would be, like two other ones that go together for me would be first man, another Shays El film, and where it's not exactly that, but you know, it is about the story of the man who went to the moon and that's how it ends, while it ends with him going back, but still and see what a thirteen. So that's not the ending. Is Not in the title there, but I think that's a great example with him. That's purely teleological right. It's all about how they called another and how they killed Ben Ladden, and I think the ending is a great one. And that's with in those respect because you have that emptiness that you've achieved your goal. Whether or not it was a good thing is unclear, and whether or not it fulfilled you is also unclear, and where you're going to is also unclear, and that's all on just get just in his face. I think that's a great ending. Also, there are certain types of movies which can't depend on their ending, and you know, you just mentioned two of them. You're dark thirty and first man. So the genre is history movies. There's no mystery unless less you've had a very poor education. So there's not movies where we can't possibly be surprised by the ending. The movie can't depend on the ending. But I think you're right that the movie has to be able to work even if people know what's coming, and they have to find small moments like a close up on Jessica chastain, build a movie around and to build a drama around, even if we know what's happening. Yeah, because the fact that we know what's going to happen can also be weaponized by those Sims. I mean the cheap way to do that is to have a like references to, Oh, this isn't going to happen, and we find it funny because we do it Wi. That's the cheap way, but you can also use that much more artfully and much more effectively. The just the fact that we know where it's going can be an advantage. Full of him. There's a it makes me think there's another movie like F for fake, where it's not a history movie and it's not in the title, but at the ing of the movie they tell us what's going to happen. In F for fake it's kind of subtle. Orson Wells tells the camera for the next hour I will say nothing but the truth, and I remember when I thought that. I thought, well, this movie is going to last longer than an hour, so he's going to pull out some lies at the end. And that's exactly what happens at the end. As I said, I would tell you the truth only for an hour and for the last you know, forty minutes I've been lying, so that those are fun in a certain extent. That that one was certainly fun, where they tell us what's going to happen and then they deliver. And I think that's especially fun because a lot of people, I mean obviously, if a lot like that ending in that style, has been spoiled for such a long time. So I think it's very hard for someone who's interested in cinema coming into that film blind. But like you imagine the people seeing that on opening night and not thinking about that and just being completely confounded. I mean it's extra good this because it tricks you so severely. Yeah, it makes me think, not of in my love. That makes me think of the prestige right, that hold idea that described in the prestige, the idea we veal to the audience and they won't to be fooled. And I think alsos does that's brilliantly. I mean hitch cock also does that, but not so much in the contact of this discussion. I do love that kind of playfulness and it's it's how to get away with but when it works it's it's really great and talking about really interesting ideas. That kind of changes how we view the films. One of my favorite endings of all time is actually from a documentary, actually to several documentaries. It really powerful endings. At you know the work what you expect, but I'm thinking of chronicle of a summer by Edgar more than Joan rush from one thousand nine hundred and sixty one, which is part of the cinema verything movement. Essentially, it's just code. It's just shooting people on the street in the natural surroundings, getting close to them, giving us, you're the feeling of suwhere and the feeling of the time, and it's beautiful. But then at the very end, and this is one of the things, that they're perhaps ties in a breakdain techniques and a lot of the days going around in time. But it ends with the people who are interviewed for the film were participated in the film, seeing the footage so far to essentially you know it's they are in the cinema and then they're interviewed about what they've seen and how you know they saw themselves in the film, and...

I think that's also it's not necessarily about I don't think the film is, in sadly, about the ending but I think it's one of those times when you can really subvert and change how we look at the entire film by making the process of seeing the film and reacting to a film part of the film itself. I think there's a such a genius ending and probably one of the best endings of all timers. Well, so shall we move on to discussing some really bad endings, although we've already just the ending I hate the most, whip last. Oh yeah, I got all right, I could discuss shoot that. That's the dump. Right into it. I wanted to bring up the movie Ai Artificial Intelligence, and I'm hesitant to say the ending was bad here, only because the ending in this case is the last thirty minutes of the movie. It feels a little long for it to be an ending. It is a two and half hour movie and, and this is so typical of Spielberg, I thought the first two hours were brilliant. If the movie had ended at the two hour mark, when the robot boy comes to a flooded New York and then falls into the water, I thought the movie it ended there would have been brilliant, and we got instead this thirty minute mepalog set in the distant sure when alien species comes and unearthed this boy, and then there's an entire fantasy sequence where he achieves his dream of humanity, and it felt felt so mawkish and so sentimental. Oh, unnecessary, so typically Spielberg, in a filmmaker who I have mixed feelings about, but but mostly negative feelings about. He has a lot of trouble with with endings and he has a lot of problem excessive sentimentality, and this is me the foremost example. That the way I described it when I first saw it, because it was originally a Kubrick project and there are very kubrickian themes. Is I said it was two brilliant hours of Kubrick and half an hour of terrible Spillsberg. It's so funny when you describe it like that, because that is actually my literal reaction when I saw it the first time as well, like you have that powerful, dark ending and then it's just taken away from you. I mean essentially, I mean, let's be honest, say this is essentially the last laugh. Once again, you know, Oh, it's over all done and then ushered in an ending. It says that here it's half an hour long and it's so different from what you've seen before. I have read a lot of fans of this movie and it does have a lot of fans. It's become a cult film who adore the ending for similar reasons to why I adore the ending of the last last which is that they see the depressing part of it. They see essentially see it. That's everyone he knew and loved are long gone. Everything is destroyed like this is just this is technically just the greatest strategy of all, but I'm not sure if that really comes true with the way Spielberg shoots it all. Let me ask you, guys, then, what are what are your least favorite endings? Well, when that's I think will have is not as controversial as the AI one, which I definitely have heard both sides do. I still haven't seen that movie. Is the end to cycle. I Love Psycho. It's a great film and it has a great ending, right the the close up on Nomin Bates. That that's that's great. What's this great is the whole scene where the psycho psychiatrist is explaining everything that's happened in the thing, and it's explaining everything about what's the mental states of nomen dates is yeah, in ways that I mean. It's bad because it's explaining everything that doesn't into this playing, first of all, and also it's, you know, psychiatry from the S, which is as understood by hitchcock, which is probably not exactly safe of the art. So it's kind of just terrible. It's the way. I mean. I think it's very rare for seeing that. I for a thing that I'd love to have such a terrible ending. That that's a great example of a movie and I love psychoi hesitated a bad thing about it, but I agree that scene is unnecessary. That's an example of an ending where they try too hard to explain things and that's awful. Never do that. It often comes in the form of like a closing narration, but in this case we have instead of a voiceover narration which just had this random character show up to explain everything scientifically. Do excited collegist, I guess. Yeah, but I struggled to call the ending of psycho bad. Ending to become simply, as you said, like that final shot of you know, not normal bits, so where's just talking to itself is such an awful area and easy ending. But like the scene preceding it is like the weakest scene and the entire film probably. How about your Chris? You have an ending you here, but I have lots of endings that you know that didn't go down that well. But the in preparation this episode I really struggled to get new and the mind and ending that ruined a film I thought was great and I really couldn't find anything that again newly broke down something that was fantastic, perhaps because to me it's...

...never really about the ending per se. But I found that. I found a couple. I think port of the funniest one has to be signs by M Night Shaya Malam, because obviously at that point you expected twist and twists are all finding good witch Malam, and it's I think up until the ending it's actually a fairly good ish film. I mean they think it's full up the breakable. I still I like the breakable a lot. This one of his best works, and science actually kind of what's going there. It had a good that atmosphere going on, was building up some suspense. But first of all you had the ridiculous reveal that, you know, water kills aliens, which is, you know, a bit like the silly ending the war of the world. But I could bring it up because it's not a good movie at all. Scientists a good movie. It's like great movie either, but it could theoretically have been almost great movie if they had done it differently. And then you have like to make it all words because of its the water killing them. You know, everything is corrected. So everything ends up so fantastically with, you know, Mel Gibson regaining his faith as a pastor be losing his faith at the beginning of the film. is almost like a parody where it's just everything you thought it out, but it just broke any kind of uneasy and big US tension built up before. It just felt silly. So I think that's the one. I remember being most infuriated by back then when it came out because, like I had the degree of hope built up in Shaol with all the hadn't done those really crappy films yet, and then you know, that ending comes that think from then on it just got worse and worse and worse as well. So it's almost like a goodbye to say. All the all that's a relatively good, you know, storyteller as well, even though we obviously had a comeback. I agree that that water aspect is is cheap and simplastic. I didn't feel it ruined the movie for me, and I'm not a big Shamalan Fan, but I thought science was pretty good. Apart from that at one sort of plot turn. HMM, that's that's the the criticism one of the main Christians Shamalan is is that he's he's become wedded to his twist endings in a way that do not feel justified by the story that precedes it. Yeah, true. Yeah, surprised we haven't mentioned simand and before this, because I mean twist endings are big thing and obviously she's associated with them and the sixth cense and all that. But just so that we don't angle to the students people fun too much, I would mention that ending of Christian counters. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that it's one of the more open ones in a way. I don't really recall the ending. It's been so long since I've Seen I. could you remind us? Well, I mean I mean in the last twenty minutes really right, the whole exchange with the music to communicate with the aliens but I think the ending at actually a bunch of versions of the ending, some of which I think a terrible but I've only seen one and he just gets him the spaceship. He he gets into spaceship and goes away and I think at least again it's a interpretation thing, but I do see that as bitter sweet because he is a kind of like we pleshure, I guess, he's sacrificing everything around him to follow his passion or his obsession and Speedberga said that he would not end the film this way now because he wouldn't have a film with end, with a protagonist abandoning his children. But that's exactly what makes it interesting. I feel that definitely. And by the way, quest I agree that I had. I couldn't really find the fame that was ruined by it sending. I think. I guess I retroactively think of these films as bad anyway, and so I I just could not find that. I guess the closest I could come was a famous still like which is a Suligim the cry for film. And it gets back to the Hays Code thing right. It's not obviously a his code ending because he's good was not applicable, but it kind of feels like it's right because the whole film we have this character of Generall, who is this very open, very free woman, and it has all this party amory, which is very his scare for the time, and it ends with the essentially then being punished, or at least that's what it feels like. I don't know what interpretations there are of this ending, but it definitely bothers yeah, I guess. I guess you can say that that they were being punished like I don't really know. It honestly felt that it's quite similar to other films from waves around the world, like bird orphans and thieves, where it just go through that really bleak place. I didn't really think of it as them being punished at all, but rather the film the shoe see to do that kind of bleak ending to a fairly whimsical film. I guess I see it in context with with the Hays Code, because following the gown with the influenced by Finla and particular, and so I guess that's when can came to my mind when I watched it. So I think it's stilled in a way that we can't really think of that many...

...endings that really really ruin the film. I mean, I think I want to forgot is that rather mentioned earlier, is that Frisland film, that where it really was all a dream. I think that that is actually a great film that really got undermines. I should probably have mentioned that bomb, but I since we have just mentioned name earlier, if we won't spoil it now. So on that note, though, let's go away from negativity and to watch positivity and actually talk about our very favorite endings of all time. WHO WANTS TO START? I'll give it a shot. I'm going to cheat. The W on go give you guys two endings right than one. I feel like I could talk about ten or fifteen endings, but you know we don't have all day, so I'll give you two, two favorite endings. One is a childhood favorite and one is an adult favorite, and I think when I look back on the childhood favorite, it's made me not quite as as great as it was when I was twelve, and that's the usual suspects. So I saw this movie when it was in theaters, when I was twelve years old, and it felt like a total revelation and I've seen it many times since and it holds up in the sense that it's a wonderfully witty and well plotted and stylish crime thriller. It's got a lot of great dialog it's got great acting. But the movies probably most famous for its twist ending, one of the more famous twist endings, and when I saw it when I was twelve it blew my mind and it felt amazing. As I've grown older, I've come to recognize that when you're dealing with thrillers especially, you really should expect a twist ending, especially when the entire movie is based around a mystery. Who is Kaiser so? Is it? Not only the entire movie, the entire Advertising Campaign for the movie was based around this mystery. Who is Kaiser so's a and the movie mostly is hinting towards the Gabriel burn character for the majority of the movie. If I had seen that movie today, I would expect a twist ending, I would expect some surprise at the end. When I was twelve I did not. I had not seen enough movies, so it really blew my mind. Today, when I see that ending it feels fun, but it also doesn't feel that surprising when I was a kid that I loved it. The adult favorite I want to mention is also a twist ending. It's the movie z Costa Govris's political thriller, and it's a political thriller about the assassination of an opposition politician immediately preceding the establishment of military dictatorship. And though it's never mentioned in the movie, it's very clearly based on priest the sort of fake ending of the movie, initial fake ending, is a happy one. This great prosecutor, played by Jean Luis Trintignon, uncovers the mystery, he hauls all the generals into court, he prosecutes them and we think that justice is going to be done. And then it's sort of the rugg is pulled from under our feet. At the last minute. We see a news broadcast in which it's revealed that all the men who are accused were let off with minor sentences or no sentences, and that some of the key witnesses that were involved in the prosecution have died under mysterious circumstances. But that's not it. The rug is pulled under our feet again because as we're watching, we suddenly cut from a news broadcast to a different news broadcast and the cut is seamless. The piece of dialog continues and in this new broadcast we see that the news broadcaster in the first new BRO news broadcast has himself been sentenced to prison. Then we get this closing narration of things that the junta has outlawed, and it's an astonishing litany of ridiculousness. They've outlawed miniskirts, they've outlawed Sophocles. I've outlawed modern music, they've outlawed Eugene Onesco. And then finally it ends with the the culmination by saying it has outlawed the letters Z, which in ancient Greek stands for he lives, referring to the assassinated politician at the beginning of the movie. And this letter Z had become a symbol of opposition graffiti that people who opposed the regime were painting on walls. So the regime outlawed and entire letter of the alphabet and that to me it symbolized it a final descent into totalitarianism. We're beyond mere dictatorship. Were regime tries to rule the political process and we moved into an era of totalitarianism where the established powers attempt to rule everything, every aspect of conduct, in fact tried to rule the very minds of the people. And when I first saw it it was a real punch in the gout. And that that, that to me is one of my my favorite endings. And Mission to admit that that had forgotten about some of what to describe the about the ending of Zo zed and yeah, I remember it being being a good Finn. Yeah, I didn't remember all of that. And at we watch it's...

...it's such an make a great case for it and the user's respects is the fame is, sadly, so many years afterwards. And and I knew the twist going in, which makes it, as you described, good entertaining thwater with good performances. But yeah, not, not, it did not strike me as much because I didn't get to have that experience. My favorite ending of all time is the ending to mounty pythons, life of Brian always look on the grey set of life. Im not going to sing it because, a, I don't think they well and be I can't whistle, so it would be quite pointless. Anyway, this is a great case to me of a thing of an ending that encompasses the whole film within it, right, the whole ethos of the film, the whole idea of taking this the Mytho of the life of Jesus and having this comedic take on it. But it's also and it's obviously funny, what you have the Brian and the criminals literally being crucified and saying always look on the gry set of life. I mean that's just obvious comedy. But it's not just that. It's also kind of pointants. You know, life supiece of Shit when you look at it, is kind of a message of Christianity in some way, and I think that's kind of the idea of life of Brian, right. It's to take the basic tenets of Christianity and say how look, Look, how they've been misinterpreted right from the start, and I think it's brilliant, it's funny, it's they were written and it's kind of heartwarming in a sense. I think it's everything you could ask for in an end. I think, you know, I certainly appreciate that ending from a comedy standpoint. I do remember life of Brian, like the last semptation of Christis, is a movie that engendered some furious opposition from religious groups, and I like that. The ending of life of Brian seems like almost a preemptive response to that opposition of you know, let's remember this is all, it's silly, it's fun, it should not be taken maybe entirely seriously. They also how they have this thread through almost all the favorites there with music, Matya, which is so interesting. I think life of Brian definitely has a really memorable ending, as US see, and I have forgotten most of that, the two Adam and I need to rewatch that because he is one of my favorite films. That, I think, what's burnt into my mind is, like you mentioned earlier, which of this the opening. We just have those that long ass ass nation which just really comes together that well, and maybe we should have a podcast some time about beginnings. But my favorite, the ending of all time, actually there's a bit of a resemblance to yours, mateur. It also ends with music, and I can say now that my favorite ending of all time is at ending off all dat gas, by Bob Fossa and starring Roy Sneider as this send me sleecy woman. I sing kind of broken, you know, choreographer, producer, artist who sets up these elab birds shows and has this throughout this entire film, this vivid fantasies, often in the form of musical sets, and I think it's really fitting them that, you know, to spoil the film, he dies. It is a it ends awfully for him, but it ends in this fantasy and I think it's probably the best final death fantasy brought to life ever, because it's literally him seeing everyone he cares about and and hates, like all of the characters from the movie, and him singing bye bye life by the early brothers or over slight change of it's it's it really is just him singing his good bye to life and it's so happy, it's so cheerful. It's just a high tempo of this, you know, goodbye to his entire life in the re sees his son and sees his ex wife and they're all dancing. It's this glorious epic finale and then it's just him in a body bag in the closest and I think it first of all is such a catches song. Is probably the ending I re watched the most amount of time because it's a great song too, and I've probably seen the ending more than twenty or thirty times, but it's a love the contrast. I love this is staring contrast between it's his death, it's awful, but you know that happiness of it, the rtality of it, is final fantasy. And also this just visiting all the characters from previously in the film and seeing this how he reacts to them in the scenes. I just think it's beautiful, it's strong, it's artistic in it, it's catchy and it's I've never seen an ending quite like it. Then I'm not. I don't think I ever will, even though I'm sure there are lots of imitations. Yeah, well, that pass at ending I should love, and on the theoretical level I love it, I guess because, yeah, music could ending...

...as I don't know why. That's also times the hime as I appreciate but did not quite connect with. I think I just didn't never really cared for the the main character. So yeah, I can appreciate the ending. I can see how it's could be this great ending, but for me it's just it's okay. Well, is this the point where we end this podcast episode with a twist ending of our own? A bit. I mean, yeah, it was. Obviously it has happened. Yeah, everything we've been telling you up until this point has been life. Or maybe. Yeah, and that actually loves with PLASS and I hate very the characters. Oh and I for fake is, of course, an entirely realistic, in real documentary that you have your and my name is an Adam. It's actually Steven Spielberg is actually the host of hidden growth, or one of US reviews that we have Steven Spielberg tied up in our apartment and now it is. It's listened to all of it and he's not pleased or it will press just of course. But I think it's interesting to do end an episode on endings, about endings, and just just sit there in a way and just talk about the things and how this episode could end it, doing it a little bit like I mentioned previously, weak collicicle of a summer, where we just actually be stealing that ending. We're really sleazy here now. We just stealing and ending where we reflect or palm that episode we just had. So so what did you think about it? You think we did a good job talking about endings? I hope so. It's sickly, did it's judgement of our are of our listeners. Yes, maybe, maybe, this is a case where we we don't do a twist ending and we just say we hope you enjoyed it. I think we did enough job discussing. I don't think we did a good job. And no, exactly like this is also most things that we almost ended on the whimper there. But just because of the fact that we're still talking about it, we're still talking about endings like this, this whole episodes gets the whole new life, doesn't it? You know, it makes me appreciate how hard endings are. Exactly exactly so it is. That how it dunderstand. Is this over? We barely we didn't even discuss the Hays Code. It's all gone like things we set up didn't even properly come into creation. There's loose and there's things we can imagine. There's things you with audience, can you know, be angry about. You were hoping this would happen, or maybe you're really just imagining something more visceral and intense that we're talking about our favorite endings like. Maybe we let you down completely, but we still here and it's the end. I think we there's only one thing we can do. We can end by promising that anyone who doesn't like the ending of this episode is welcome to come on and end the future episode. That's that's a dangerous traditions. But yeah, if you do not like this the end of this episode, or even if you do, feel free to come on ICM for Ofcom you know, look us up and yeah, maybe you can be in a future episode. This hit this up and I don't think any film has ever done that. I think you just do the Sol an entire problem out, like you can you honor a vandangs. Yeah, exactly, like which which ending literally has like hey, you know, you think you can do it better, come here going. I mean there's stills, all these participation endings really literally both if you didn't talk about either. But yeah, this is a new one. See. Yeah, thank you. The William Castle movie that had that where they would pause the movie and they'd the audience on which what they wanted to see happen, and they give the audience one of two endings with several films. Because we didn't talk about clue. You talk about clue, which has much of her ending. Just came back to we didn't even talk about Lord of the Rings, which is probably one of the films that people complain about the most just because it has like four plus endings that people just keep thinking it's going to end. But now we're killed episode again. We're going back to actually discussing endings rather than discussing the ending to our episodes. So on that note, I think let's close it. This episode is over. Yeah, you have been listening to talking images, official podcast of ICM Forumcom. We're doing James using we are setting up sequel. Exactly. What's this really the best endings of all time? Or or if you disagree, or if you have additional endings you know, come up, come down here to our studio or our virtual studio and participate in the sequels. Not even have an ad for it. Come down here, joint talking images and press sent. Will it happen? We don't know. You have been listening to talking images, official podcast of ICM Forumcom.

But yeah, I think now we really gone down the Lord for rings through it as well. We just have too many endings, so let's just say it's over. Thank you all for listening and join us again soon, either as a listener or, as we're shaying earlier. A participant you have been listening to talking images, official PODCAST OF ICM FORUMCOM.

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